• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:40
CET 14:40
KST 22:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!13$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship4[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1636 users

Core Professional Gaming a scam? - Page 8

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 14 Next All
openbox1
Profile Joined March 2011
1393 Posts
August 12 2013 15:48 GMT
#141
This is so funny! Wow, creating false persona to vouch for a false persona that's in turn vouching for a false persona.
I'm cracking up. Wow, the whole Perdue SC2 team is on teamliquid.

Oh geez, I'm crying tears of laughter reading through this crap.
Man, Nanocloud, Cell or whatever, thanks for this little bit of amusement.

Etegration, appreciate what you're trying to do, at least for any gullible aspiring esports undiscovered talant, but at some point, its better to just stay away from crazy. You can't reason with them, you can't appeal to their basic human decency because crazy is just that: crazy.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
August 12 2013 15:48 GMT
#142
On August 13 2013 00:42 TizzCore wrote:


If anybody believes this drama or has any questions about Core, feel entirely free to talk to anyone on the management team

I don't think you have read the entire thread, one of the manager Milad aka "cell" aka "nanocloud" has a very bad rep here at TL, I provided many evidence on his dishonesty. Please look into them, and make your own decision.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
orBitual
Profile Joined January 2011
United States96 Posts
August 12 2013 15:56 GMT
#143
At this point it seems like any information you could have expected from a forum 'investigation' has been produced. If nanocloud was not involved, there would be nothing left to discuss. It really bothers me, though, that an anonymous forum poster thinks he can make all sorts of demands for proof about people's real life identities and businesses, and slandering their organizations, while putting no stake of his own personal life or credentials on the table.
TizzCore
Profile Joined August 2013
9 Posts
August 12 2013 15:59 GMT
#144
"(because a real organization would conduct their business over a skype conversation.)"


Just from the statement above I can tell you don't really know what you're talking about. You are so very wrong. So many real (as you call them) organizations do this.
TizzCore
Profile Joined August 2013
9 Posts
August 12 2013 16:08 GMT
#145
Also, elevation, who are you to write about this? You have nothing to do with Core. Stop trying to play Batman.

The second ONE SINGLE PRO PLAYER from Core gets swindled, or lied to, or not paid, you don't think he'll be upset? You don't think he'd write a thread about it? You don't think he'd tell his friends not to join Core? Being the new organization in such a volatile industry like eSports, if Core messes up one tiny little bit along the way, it will crash and burn. No need to have others try to do it for us. Let the players decide whether Core is legit or not. Not someone who has nothing to do with it. We can fail all by ourselves thank you very much, we just are determined not to let that happened. If our pro players wanna leave, and leave us with no sponsors, no income, no sustainability, so be it. But they don't. Because we're not screwing anyone over.
openbox1
Profile Joined March 2011
1393 Posts
August 12 2013 16:08 GMT
#146
On August 12 2013 21:46 -Celestial- wrote:
Everything this NaNoCloud guy is involved in just keeps getting better and better. I mean...break out the popcorn.

Is Core a dodgy clan? Who exactly is this Neurotic guy? Why do none of their sponsers actually appear to exist? What, exactly, does Neuroscience have to do with being Operations Director for a gaming team? Did anyone get paid or are people just pretending to be paid? What about the people claiming they know the ones involved? How about that identity theft controversy?

All or possibly none of these questions will be answered next time on TL Forum Drama Time!


Personally I'm just waiting for it to be revealed that NaNoCloud, Anderson Barrett and Neurotic are all the same person. Then he rips a face mask off and it turns out to be Destiny trolling everyone.


lol, Its posts like this that makes this so enjoyable!
Thanks Celestial!
eLeVaTioN
Profile Joined February 2012
United States97 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 16:14:52
August 12 2013 16:10 GMT
#147
On August 13 2013 00:42 TizzCore wrote:
I appreciate the intent of this thread, and in the context of online gaming, the research done by the original author seems comprehensive. HOWEVER, hate to break it to you, but sometimes the internet doesn't have all the information! (what? no way! the internet knows everything and everything on the internet is true!) Yeah, no.

CorePro Desing, LLC was incorporated a couple of days ago. Now, I know we've all come to expect excellent and speedy service from the state (yeah right) but try checking back in a couple of weeks. As a profession I worked with 12 start-up companies over this summer. All of them exist, I'm certain of that. Try googling them? Nothing. Doesn't mean that anything that doesn't show up in google doesn't exist. Just means it could be new.

And where does it say Core paid all of our players? Yes, you can find many players who haven't been paid, and were not promised pay. Congrats. But instead of going behind our backs and doing shoddy research, why not ask, who HAS been paid? And you will find the players who have been paid, just as promised.

Also, no where did we say our promotional videos were entirely created from scratch. And no, it's not "taking someone else' s work." Why would they create video templates if they didn't want other people to use them? You're supposed to edit and use them as your own. In fact, that's entirely the purpose of video templates. So that statement just seems slander-ish and abrasive.

There's so much more that's just wrong about this thread that could've been entirely clarified by a 10 minute chat with Neurotic or many other members in Core. Instead, the author of this post (who apparently is all about "fair game" and honor) decides to back-door Core, instead of doing the "fair" thing and talking to us first. Thanks.

If anybody believes this drama or has any questions about Core, feel entirely free to talk to anyone on the management team or visit our site and see that we've created something out of nothing that our members love and we're not trying swindle people, we don't make money off of anyone, in fact we've all put in so much time and money, we're pretty much doing it for everyone else. The author asks how we have time to do all this while keeping up in SCII. We don't. I don't remember the last time I've played a video game. Because all the free time I have I spend making Core into something better for the community.

We're all in eSports together, and we'd all like it to become something bigger than it is. So I say we work together, instead of backstabbing others in the industry, god only knows why.




You do realize a lot of this contradicts what your executive director claims?

In regards to the company, he claimed he was still filing the paperwork (Article of Organization) to be submitted so even if this is true, the company has not been filed but now it has? Also it wasn't the lack of information from a google search that set an alarm for me, it was searching the state department for a license registered in that name and not finding anything. It's not registered yet? Then why even advertise it until it's finalized. That would be like you advertising "Core Gaming now sponsored by Razer" without having an agreement set in stone and the chance of it not happening.

Neurotic himself said all players have already received pay and gear, go look back to Page 2 I think? Why make this claim if it's not true? I don't need to do research on who did and didn't get paid when one person makes a claim and someone from the team comes in and contradicts that. Plus the fact that one player was added to the roster without even accepting the offer and he says he was even offered help to pay his rent? There's still a lot of explaining to do on this. Also the part with other team managers claiming people from Core are trying to make offers to players over a livestream chat.

The video thing I even said wasn't that important but I still find it to be odd. Neurotic claimed he had to get license agreements to even use the tutorial templates yet you say they're made to be used by everyone? This is my problem and why I made this thread, one person claims one thing but another person says another. There's no consistency in the stories. The only issue with the video and why I brought it up was because an actual business made a video using the same work and I think it's a bit low on your part to use the same work.

This isn't about backstabbing. This is about continuous inconsistencies in information. Even if a lot of this checks out, you guys have a terrible way of communicating information and your business practices are pretty mediocre. Going into twitch chats making offers to plaerys? Offering a player that you (well not you personally but your organization) will pay for his rent even? You can't even blame people for questioning you guys
Treva
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States533 Posts
August 12 2013 16:10 GMT
#148
Sucks that Purdue's SC2 team is going to get mixed in with this mess, met a lot of them at many LANs here in Indiana and they were/are a good group of guys.
Live it up.
coldscars
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany141 Posts
August 12 2013 16:11 GMT
#149
can we close this thread already?
\BibleThump/
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 12 2013 16:12 GMT
#150
i like this tizzcore guy's posts very positive

what drugs are you on, I would like some of those.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
eLeVaTioN
Profile Joined February 2012
United States97 Posts
August 12 2013 16:12 GMT
#151
On August 13 2013 00:59 TizzCore wrote:
"(because a real organization would conduct their business over a skype conversation.)"


Just from the statement above I can tell you don't really know what you're talking about. You are so very wrong. So many real (as you call them) organizations do this.



That's why I said it...
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
August 12 2013 16:16 GMT
#152
ya TizzCore keep ignoring the question about nanocloud, it would make you sound legit, pick and choose what argument you can win and ignores the ones you can't. This cherry picking shows you know for a fact that doesn't matter what you say you can't defend a selif admitted cheater.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 17:04:16
August 12 2013 16:28 GMT
#153
I wish we could go back to the time when a scam was considered some deceitful act to steal money from people, not some random kid with too much time luring naive people into joining a team by waving with nonexistent money.
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
August 12 2013 16:29 GMT
#154
so much sick drama.

wonder what would happen if we compared nanoclouds ip adress to those of skydie, pea_see, nuparu, tizzcore, et al. ( maybe I missed some but you can see my point )

At this point its fucking sad. Its like beating on a dead horse that wont die. Just give up Nanocloud. Seek help. My guess is that you need it. Do it before something really bad happens to you and jeopardizes your future for real.

And I feel real bad for the Milozucai guy whose name will forever be linked to this Nanocloud scammer trough a google search.

so fucking pathetic.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
eLeVaTioN
Profile Joined February 2012
United States97 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 16:39:10
August 12 2013 16:32 GMT
#155
On August 13 2013 01:08 TizzCore wrote:
Also, elevation, who are you to write about this? You have nothing to do with Core. Stop trying to play Batman.

The second ONE SINGLE PRO PLAYER from Core gets swindled, or lied to, or not paid, you don't think he'll be upset? You don't think he'd write a thread about it? You don't think he'd tell his friends not to join Core? Being the new organization in such a volatile industry like eSports, if Core messes up one tiny little bit along the way, it will crash and burn. No need to have others try to do it for us. Let the players decide whether Core is legit or not. Not someone who has nothing to do with it. We can fail all by ourselves thank you very much, we just are determined not to let that happened. If our pro players wanna leave, and leave us with no sponsors, no income, no sustainability, so be it. But they don't. Because we're not screwing anyone over.


I'm not trying to play Batman, there's a long list of people (and teams even) that severely question your organization, I'm just the one who spoke out about it (And no, a lot of them had their own concerns that came before I even made the post so don't even try pulling the card of "well they saw this thread..."). Myself along with everyone who have these concerns don't care if you succeed or fail, our problem is one person associated with your organization has been proven to have lied about a lot of things and your organizations inconsistency of information. Whether he actually checks out to be who he claims to be is almost irrelevant because the fact of the matter remains numerous people have proven he has lied about numerous things and has even gone as far as trying to tarnish a number of individual's reputations to save himself. You add that to the fact that he just came from a team that was a total scam and he promised to help pay for a player's rent? And said player came from sMi as well and even said it sounded just like the scam that was pulled on that team, you SHOULD understand why we would question this. That person represents your organization so when he's going around using inappropriate methods of speaking to players and making promises that go way beyond what your team claims to even be offering, we should have the right to question that whether you like it or not.

That's why this thread was made. Messaging you wouldn't honestly prove anything because Neurotic claims 1 thing, doesn't entirely check out but you claim another. I never once said "Oh this team is 100% scam, everyone stay away", I just presented a list of information that is a bit sketchy and pointed out inconsistencies in information so we could get answers to them all (most of which you guys still haven't had much of an answer for).
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 12 2013 16:32 GMT
#156
On August 13 2013 01:28 dani` wrote:
I wish we could go back to the time were a scam was considered some deceitful act to steal money from people, not some random kid with too much time luring naive people into joining a team by waving with nonexistent money.


hear hear
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
JonSnow
Profile Joined May 2012
United States67 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 17:03:50
August 12 2013 16:53 GMT
#157
Hello, i recently joined CORE and they have been really nice and professional towards me. I've already been paid and have been talking on a regular basis with the guy in charge, Justin, and he seems extremely organized and passionate about the scene. The management have great plans for the future, and I feel it's a shame that this drama is being created without any cause for it. If you guys have any concerns about the team i think they will be resolved by the end of the month.

Edit: Also the gear they promised me came today, so i'm pretty sure this isn't a scam.
dWarreN
Profile Joined May 2013
117 Posts
August 12 2013 16:55 GMT
#158
On August 13 2013 00:42 TizzCore wrote:
I appreciate the intent of this thread, and in the context of online gaming, the research done by the original author seems comprehensive. HOWEVER, hate to break it to you, but sometimes the internet doesn't have all the information! (what? no way! the internet knows everything and everything on the internet is true!) Yeah, no.

CorePro Desing, LLC was incorporated a couple of days ago. Now, I know we've all come to expect excellent and speedy service from the state (yeah right) but try checking back in a couple of weeks. As a profession I worked with 12 start-up companies over this summer. All of them exist, I'm certain of that. Try googling them? Nothing. Doesn't mean that anything that doesn't show up in google doesn't exist. Just means it could be new.

And where does it say Core paid all of our players? Yes, you can find many players who haven't been paid, and were not promised pay. Congrats. But instead of going behind our backs and doing shoddy research, why not ask, who HAS been paid? And you will find the players who have been paid, just as promised.

Also, no where did we say our promotional videos were entirely created from scratch. And no, it's not "taking someone else' s work." Why would they create video templates if they didn't want other people to use them? You're supposed to edit and use them as your own. In fact, that's entirely the purpose of video templates. So that statement just seems slander-ish and abrasive.

There's so much more that's just wrong about this thread that could've been entirely clarified by a 10 minute chat with Neurotic or many other members in Core. Instead, the author of this post (who apparently is all about "fair game" and honor) decides to back-door Core, instead of doing the "fair" thing and talking to us first. Thanks.

If anybody believes this drama or has any questions about Core, feel entirely free to talk to anyone on the management team or visit our site and see that we've created something out of nothing that our members love and we're not trying swindle people, we don't make money off of anyone, in fact we've all put in so much time and money, we're pretty much doing it for everyone else. The author asks how we have time to do all this while keeping up in SCII. We don't. I don't remember the last time I've played a video game. Because all the free time I have I spend making Core into something better for the community.

We're all in eSports together, and we'd all like it to become something bigger than it is. So I say we work together, instead of backstabbing others in the industry, god only knows why.


Notice how if you click his profile.. account was made less than 24 hours ago. Just speculating..
hansonslee
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-12 17:02:28
August 12 2013 16:56 GMT
#159
I think we should let this matter go because this thread is going nowhere. It seems that these people from management do not seem to understand basic PR and crisis management, which may be a result of inexperience. No one starts out perfect, you know!

But then, again, we could be wrong about these guys. So, for better or for worse, let's see how this story unfolds. However, seeing what's going on right now, I think Core Gaming's future into a professional realm seems shaky at best.

As for NaNoClouD, he may have gotten away with his inexcusable behavior because it seems that his good IRL friends can't comprehend why the community distrusts him heavily, and you really can't blame them.

Here's to hope that things will only get better from here
Seed's # 1 fan!!! #ForVengeance
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
August 12 2013 17:00 GMT
#160
On August 13 2013 01:53 JonSnow wrote:
Hello, i recently joined CORE and they have been really nice and professional towards me. I've already been paid and have been talking on a regular basis with the guy in charge, Justin, and he seems extremely organized and passionate about the scene. The management have great plans for the future, and I feel it's a shame that this drama is being created without any cause for it. If you guys have any concerns about the team i think they will be resolved by the end of the month.


17 posts

User was warned for this post
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 14 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko98
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 2436
GuemChi 2197
Sea 1531
firebathero 506
Pusan 423
Soma 419
Stork 295
Leta 269
Last 249
Hyun 171
[ Show more ]
Light 163
Rush 122
sSak 101
hero 101
Snow 98
Barracks 80
Mong 75
ToSsGirL 59
Backho 58
ZerO 57
Sharp 48
Shine 34
Sea.KH 32
Terrorterran 25
Movie 21
zelot 19
Noble 13
Icarus 12
scan(afreeca) 11
IntoTheRainbow 9
Dota 2
qojqva994
XcaliburYe152
Dendi58
Counter-Strike
x6flipin552
zeus344
edward154
markeloff71
Other Games
singsing2040
B2W.Neo677
DeMusliM347
crisheroes326
hiko241
Fuzer 211
Liquid`LucifroN165
XaKoH 131
oskar125
Mew2King63
QueenE16
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL161
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 107
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 16
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV343
League of Legends
• Jankos911
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
1h 20m
OSC
8h 20m
Replay Cast
9h 20m
OSC
22h 20m
LAN Event
1d 1h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 13h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 20h
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
2 days
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
LAN Event
3 days
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
3 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.