On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
Also I thought Iceland was the perfect country, not Sweden. Icelandic people hang glide across the thermal updrafts of volcanoes and walk on lava during eruptions. Also the mayor of Reykjavik is the perfect politician for sure.
On the OP's questions. Sweden does have occasional riots, often including more ethnic minorities, but not nearly enough to have it reported in the news as a "consistent pattern".
And why doesn't any one do anything about it? I think it's because like any society, groups are segregated in different areas. Most white Swedes, who's political support is needed to gain office in the legislature, simply don't consider such issues to be salient enough for parties to make such issues key campaign points. The amount of representation they receive simply isn't enough to pass committed and meaningful policies. On the other hand, it is very easy for parties such as the Swedish Democrats to politicise such cleavages because some people tend to care a lot about the troubles caused by minority groups in suburbs.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
So... when the students in the UK were rioting, because of the increased cost of studying, they were all poor brown-skinned muslims?
Right..
Also, you have to help me with my memory. I can't recall any riots where a major group of perpetrators were muslim, except the riots in France, in the last 10 years in Europe. So which other riots are you talking about?
Just a fun fact, the last riot in Sweden were 12 years ago, which were the protest against EU summit in Göteborg.
On May 21 2013 09:22 kakaman wrote: Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I'm sorry, but what? What are you basing that claim on? I have been affected by riots, but I have never heard Allah Akbar..
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Edit: In regard to the racist topic which seems to have started, everyone's racist. We're designed to be. But preferring your group over others doesn't make you a bad person (quite the contrary I'd say; and this coming from a Eurasian Hybrid) so long as you don't seek to go out of your way to harm other groups.
I've never understood this ascetic social "norm" in regard to race that exists in the West. Can't talk badly about the immigrants (bullshit). Multiculturalism, when adopted, is self-destructive to the native culture. It's cultural suicide.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
You realise a lot of our poor brown people are Afro-Caribbean, right? European countries all have a different experience with immigration based on their own unique histories and circumstances. The UK's colonial history gave it waves of Afro-Caribbean, Indian (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh) and Chinese (Hong Kong, Singapore) immigration while France, with its North African empire, ended up with far more Muslim Arabs. The Paris riots had a completely different religious background to the London riots.
Oh boy...The land of political correctness is being called racist because it didn't live up to the tolerance dream?
https://files.nyu.edu/ts43/public/research/SNS_LjungqvistSargent14.pdf And they're still letting in these people who do nothing but drain on Sweden socially and economically. On top of that they're complain about racism when the country that already bends over backwards for them doesn't bend over quite far enough.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
Wait, what?
You keep saying these things over and over but they feel so wrong. I can't help but smelling a foul scent coming from your hidden sources.
And yes, to "clarify", scandinavian countries are very much interested in keeping things "as they are", and not gradually become a more muslim country but rather assimilate and westernize the muslims that do come. Which has proven extremely difficult and is the topic of just about any big political debate, and causes the greatest divide in current politics. There really is no point in arguing that muslims should be allowed to keep their culture and immigrate more and more; while there's also no need to claim that scandinavian countries "do not care", as this simply is not true. What is true, however, is that we have noooo idea how to handle the situation, so there's an increasing outcry to limit immigration. Specially of people who have not already grown up with western culture.
The average swede simply will not budge and have islam be an important part of their society.
On May 21 2013 09:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Because this country is super PC overload and everything is racist. The word doesn't even have any "power" behind it anymore because it gets thrown around so loosely everywhere.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
So let me clarify what you're saying here:
Every nation in Europe is racist. Every nation in Europe "sweeps (racism) under the rug".
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
That article is pretty bullshit and his examples of what he has experienced has happened to me(who is white and blonde) and friends of mine who are not immigrants. A lot of cops are power horny assholes, i doubt this is exclusive to Sweden. Some are legit though and Swedens integration is as bad as any other countrys, i don´t deny that but the article is pure crap.
Children born in Sweden being deported to their parents countries is a standard practice in many a country, even in the biggest wellfare state in the world(Norway) is this practiced. And not a single sensible person actually supports it as shown by outpouring support to the families being deported and shown by the protests against these practices. Child services have been criticized thousands of times for being heartless bastards in cases involving non immigrant children aswell - it's beuracracy and everyone is just out to cover their own ass pointing to the law and rules while not practicing common sense.
Sweden is far for perfect, but calling swedes a bunch of closet racists and painting a picture that everyone is out to get you from a few rotten eggs is pretty bullshit. Don't quote that crap here.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
I started reading this post and realized it was an oxymoron. If you're this big on throwing around the term racism on political issues, then you really shouldn't make a racially based hierarchy on racism.
Also what you claim is mostly BS. In Europe equal opportunities is valued a lot more than anywhere else in the world. Anyone has a very good chance of making a very decent life (can't speak for southern or eastern europe, i don't follow their issues at all, really). Education is mostly free, even college/university. In Norway these immigrants also get free housing and an allowance waaay higher than what I get as student loans. Problem is more that certain groups of immigrants do not want to be a part of society such as it is, and rather than trying to fit in they actively try to not fit in (a lot of critics are claiming that being assimilated into the Norwegian culture is More difficult when you are handed everything you need to live; cause then you laugh at the government, take what you want, and dont give 2 shits about things like abiding the law or being respectful). A problem in itself, but it is NOT because they DONT have the same opportunities, cause they do; but rather that they do not wish to live like swedes or w/e. So. Stop speaking incorrect nonsense.
And if you wish to look at poverty, look within your own country. If free education and even free housing isn't enough to get you out of poverty, then why do you still keep blaming (european) society
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Because this country is super PC overload and everything is racist. The word doesn't even have any "power" behind it anymore because it gets thrown around so loosely everywhere.
I'm sorry to hear that. The more and more I delve into it, the more I start to think that shouting "racist" at someone is the 21st. century equivalent of calling someone a heretic in 11th century Europe: Vitriolic, and abusive with strong emotional undertones, and ultimately useless outside of ad hominem.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
I don't necessarily think it's a problem. It depends how it manifests. The colloquial usage of racism is far too broadly defined to be of any substantive use and includes many innocuous forms of "racism".
I wouldn't say racial pride, race realism, racial separatism, etc are really "bad" by definition and range from totally innocent to being genuinely beneficial to a persons psychological well-being. On the other hand exterminate everyone not like us, or even we are inherently superior to these sub-humans are pretty bad...
Hello. I live in Husby (where the riots are taking place) and I've lived here for ~18 years in total. I know many of the ones who are parts of this riots. My neighbour also had his windows busted. I want to make it clear that I am against what they are doing, but I will try to explain a bit more of why it is happening. Feel free to ask me any questions, too.
The problem here is that youth in the area are very frustrated, both at themselves and everyone around them. They want change, but honestly they don't actually know how to bring it properly. The reason for this is that the youth in the area really do not have anyone to look up to or to guide them. A vast majority of the people here (>90%) are immigrants or have immigrant parents. There is no focus on helping youth here, they only focus on bringing in jobs to the total populace. There are no youth centers or clubs once you're out of what, 5th grade? A lot of schools have been shut down too.
Combined with the fact that fathers and mothers who haven't properly learnt the language or know how Sweden works properly cannot help them with their "sweden-issues". Since there is no youth center where people who actually know how Sweden works and can help them with any issue they have and support them properly, where can they turn? Nowhere. They end up confused, and while most will not turn to "thug life" or even further, revolutionist thoughts, some do. And those do influence other confused around them. It's a snowball effect. Music inspiring this behaviour has become very common in these areas in last 5 years or so too. They talk about the police and vastly overexaggerate what actually happens in the area. While police brutality does occasionally happen, its in almost all cases justified.
The government has known of this trend I am very sure. Some of the more uh...civlised? and educated young people in the area (myself included) have talked to local authorities and to local newspapers about the situation for a long long time. They've done nothing. It's people in the area that have tried to set up things, but almost everything has failed.
Worse is that Swedish winters have become increasingly long under these 5 years too. One of the best and favoured ways of relieving their stress from the everyday has been to play Football or Basketball. You can't do that though with 7-8 month long winters. And we don't really have enough space for everyone in the area to play anyway. So they just "hang out" and let those thoughts breed. Sure, they "could" just go and "study" and shit but really what do they have to motivate them but a father or mother at home that doesn't understand their struggle?
How do you think when someone has to take the train to the city to go to school filled with swedish people who literally do whatever they want, can buy anything they want and act like brats?
Yeah, he's gonna feel like shit. Some might be motivated by it but a majority aren't. Stockholm has a VERY low average quality of the early stages of education too. From when people are 12 and onwards, it takes a massive dip. The teachers are idiots who do it for the money and cannot motivate them nor properly teach them. Doesn't help that there is no one there at all to replace them. It's just a huge mess. At least they are working VERY hard to fix the teacher problem.
But yeah, if you got any questions do ask and I'll try and answer before I sleep.
Edit: I would like to say that everything DeepElemBlues has said is bullshit and not at all relevant to the current situation.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Well, this really makes no sense. A lot of the world's population want to live by the teachings of Allah and spread these teachings and pass them as laws in countries with already pretty well-established laws and customs, like sweden. Anarchy isn't really an option. You can NOT act however you like. And even if "geographic regions dont dictate who you are", it plays a huuuuge role. Why else would there be "geographical" differences between people? And, if people REALLY could act however they wanted, then you must also realize that by criticizing ANYONE, you are putting your own foot in your mouth.
EPT
