First of all, I hope we can have a fruitful and cordial discussion on this topic. Being from America, I don't hear much news about Sweden (other than esports), but every time I do, it's about riots caused by the same minority group in Sweden. Now, I can't pretend to know the social dynamics of the country, but if there's a consistent pattern to social unrest in the country, why doesn't anyone do anything about it? I know Sweden is all about equality and whatnot, but at what point do you say enough and protect the citizens of the country?
Gangs of youth angered by the police shooting death of an elderly man in a mainly immigrant neighborhood hurled rocks at police and set cars and buildings on fire in a Stockholm suburb early Monday, forcing the evacuation of an apartment block.
Around 50 youths were involved in the riots in the suburb of Husby, police spokesman Lars Bystrom said.
The youths set light to a parking garage, compelling police to evacuate residents from an adjacent apartment block, Bystrom said. Residents were allowed to return home after a couple of hours.
Around 80 percent of the roughly 11,000 people living in Husby – a drab, low-income neighborhood of apartment blocks west of Stockholm – are first or second generation immigrants.
Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
how about no, several "riots" has been started by confrontation between left and right groups, dont mention the soccer huliganism. I think it is very cute that you try to spread racist propaganda from USA about Sweden.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
Not sure about the UK, but I'm commenting on the riots I read about in Sweden.
Isn't Sweden supposed to be the most fantabulous country on Earth ? An example for all others to model themselves after ? What is this, trouble in paradise ? I had no idea there were any problems in this country. I'm quite shocked to read this article.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
I have two friends who are Swedish Democrats and although they are a minority, it is not a super tiny group and they actually have parliamentary representation.
There is most certainly a lot of frustration and racism going on in Sweden.
If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
On May 21 2013 09:27 Kaitlin wrote: Isn't Sweden supposed to be the most fantabulous country on Earth ? An example for all others to model themselves after ? What is this, trouble in paradise ? I had no idea there were any problems in this country. I'm quite shocked to read this article.
Yeah, according to Reddit, it's the best place on Earth. I'm shocked that it's not perfect, frankly (sarcasm).
On May 21 2013 09:27 Kaitlin wrote: Isn't Sweden supposed to be the most fantabulous country on Earth ? An example for all others to model themselves after ? What is this, trouble in paradise ? I had no idea there were any problems in this country. I'm quite shocked to read this article.
Yeah, according to Reddit, it's the best place on Earth. I'm shocked that it's not perfect, frankly (sarcasm).
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Are you fucking kidding me? Racism is everywhere, there's no way to gauge who is worse when it comes to racism.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
Also I thought Iceland was the perfect country, not Sweden. Icelandic people hang glide across the thermal updrafts of volcanoes and walk on lava during eruptions. Also the mayor of Reykjavik is the perfect politician for sure.
On the OP's questions. Sweden does have occasional riots, often including more ethnic minorities, but not nearly enough to have it reported in the news as a "consistent pattern".
And why doesn't any one do anything about it? I think it's because like any society, groups are segregated in different areas. Most white Swedes, who's political support is needed to gain office in the legislature, simply don't consider such issues to be salient enough for parties to make such issues key campaign points. The amount of representation they receive simply isn't enough to pass committed and meaningful policies. On the other hand, it is very easy for parties such as the Swedish Democrats to politicise such cleavages because some people tend to care a lot about the troubles caused by minority groups in suburbs.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
So... when the students in the UK were rioting, because of the increased cost of studying, they were all poor brown-skinned muslims?
Right..
Also, you have to help me with my memory. I can't recall any riots where a major group of perpetrators were muslim, except the riots in France, in the last 10 years in Europe. So which other riots are you talking about?
Just a fun fact, the last riot in Sweden were 12 years ago, which were the protest against EU summit in Göteborg.
On May 21 2013 09:22 kakaman wrote: Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I'm sorry, but what? What are you basing that claim on? I have been affected by riots, but I have never heard Allah Akbar..
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Edit: In regard to the racist topic which seems to have started, everyone's racist. We're designed to be. But preferring your group over others doesn't make you a bad person (quite the contrary I'd say; and this coming from a Eurasian Hybrid) so long as you don't seek to go out of your way to harm other groups.
I've never understood this ascetic social "norm" in regard to race that exists in the West. Can't talk badly about the immigrants (bullshit). Multiculturalism, when adopted, is self-destructive to the native culture. It's cultural suicide.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
You realise a lot of our poor brown people are Afro-Caribbean, right? European countries all have a different experience with immigration based on their own unique histories and circumstances. The UK's colonial history gave it waves of Afro-Caribbean, Indian (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh) and Chinese (Hong Kong, Singapore) immigration while France, with its North African empire, ended up with far more Muslim Arabs. The Paris riots had a completely different religious background to the London riots.
Oh boy...The land of political correctness is being called racist because it didn't live up to the tolerance dream?
https://files.nyu.edu/ts43/public/research/SNS_LjungqvistSargent14.pdf And they're still letting in these people who do nothing but drain on Sweden socially and economically. On top of that they're complain about racism when the country that already bends over backwards for them doesn't bend over quite far enough.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
Wait, what?
You keep saying these things over and over but they feel so wrong. I can't help but smelling a foul scent coming from your hidden sources.
And yes, to "clarify", scandinavian countries are very much interested in keeping things "as they are", and not gradually become a more muslim country but rather assimilate and westernize the muslims that do come. Which has proven extremely difficult and is the topic of just about any big political debate, and causes the greatest divide in current politics. There really is no point in arguing that muslims should be allowed to keep their culture and immigrate more and more; while there's also no need to claim that scandinavian countries "do not care", as this simply is not true. What is true, however, is that we have noooo idea how to handle the situation, so there's an increasing outcry to limit immigration. Specially of people who have not already grown up with western culture.
The average swede simply will not budge and have islam be an important part of their society.
On May 21 2013 09:36 DeepElemBlues wrote: Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Because this country is super PC overload and everything is racist. The word doesn't even have any "power" behind it anymore because it gets thrown around so loosely everywhere.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
So let me clarify what you're saying here:
Every nation in Europe is racist. Every nation in Europe "sweeps (racism) under the rug".
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
That article is pretty bullshit and his examples of what he has experienced has happened to me(who is white and blonde) and friends of mine who are not immigrants. A lot of cops are power horny assholes, i doubt this is exclusive to Sweden. Some are legit though and Swedens integration is as bad as any other countrys, i don´t deny that but the article is pure crap.
Children born in Sweden being deported to their parents countries is a standard practice in many a country, even in the biggest wellfare state in the world(Norway) is this practiced. And not a single sensible person actually supports it as shown by outpouring support to the families being deported and shown by the protests against these practices. Child services have been criticized thousands of times for being heartless bastards in cases involving non immigrant children aswell - it's beuracracy and everyone is just out to cover their own ass pointing to the law and rules while not practicing common sense.
Sweden is far for perfect, but calling swedes a bunch of closet racists and painting a picture that everyone is out to get you from a few rotten eggs is pretty bullshit. Don't quote that crap here.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
I started reading this post and realized it was an oxymoron. If you're this big on throwing around the term racism on political issues, then you really shouldn't make a racially based hierarchy on racism.
Also what you claim is mostly BS. In Europe equal opportunities is valued a lot more than anywhere else in the world. Anyone has a very good chance of making a very decent life (can't speak for southern or eastern europe, i don't follow their issues at all, really). Education is mostly free, even college/university. In Norway these immigrants also get free housing and an allowance waaay higher than what I get as student loans. Problem is more that certain groups of immigrants do not want to be a part of society such as it is, and rather than trying to fit in they actively try to not fit in (a lot of critics are claiming that being assimilated into the Norwegian culture is More difficult when you are handed everything you need to live; cause then you laugh at the government, take what you want, and dont give 2 shits about things like abiding the law or being respectful). A problem in itself, but it is NOT because they DONT have the same opportunities, cause they do; but rather that they do not wish to live like swedes or w/e. So. Stop speaking incorrect nonsense.
And if you wish to look at poverty, look within your own country. If free education and even free housing isn't enough to get you out of poverty, then why do you still keep blaming (european) society
On May 21 2013 09:32 grobo wrote: I don't know about this particular situation but in general, If you so much as whisper a negative thing about the immigration situation in Sweden you'll be labeled a racist.
Honestly, that's the vibe I get from a lot of people from Sweden (the few I've met and the veiled implications of some comments I've seen online).
Where does this apparent social anxiety over being labeled "racist" come from?
Because this country is super PC overload and everything is racist. The word doesn't even have any "power" behind it anymore because it gets thrown around so loosely everywhere.
I'm sorry to hear that. The more and more I delve into it, the more I start to think that shouting "racist" at someone is the 21st. century equivalent of calling someone a heretic in 11th century Europe: Vitriolic, and abusive with strong emotional undertones, and ultimately useless outside of ad hominem.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
I don't necessarily think it's a problem. It depends how it manifests. The colloquial usage of racism is far too broadly defined to be of any substantive use and includes many innocuous forms of "racism".
I wouldn't say racial pride, race realism, racial separatism, etc are really "bad" by definition and range from totally innocent to being genuinely beneficial to a persons psychological well-being. On the other hand exterminate everyone not like us, or even we are inherently superior to these sub-humans are pretty bad...
Hello. I live in Husby (where the riots are taking place) and I've lived here for ~18 years in total. I know many of the ones who are parts of this riots. My neighbour also had his windows busted. I want to make it clear that I am against what they are doing, but I will try to explain a bit more of why it is happening. Feel free to ask me any questions, too.
The problem here is that youth in the area are very frustrated, both at themselves and everyone around them. They want change, but honestly they don't actually know how to bring it properly. The reason for this is that the youth in the area really do not have anyone to look up to or to guide them. A vast majority of the people here (>90%) are immigrants or have immigrant parents. There is no focus on helping youth here, they only focus on bringing in jobs to the total populace. There are no youth centers or clubs once you're out of what, 5th grade? A lot of schools have been shut down too.
Combined with the fact that fathers and mothers who haven't properly learnt the language or know how Sweden works properly cannot help them with their "sweden-issues". Since there is no youth center where people who actually know how Sweden works and can help them with any issue they have and support them properly, where can they turn? Nowhere. They end up confused, and while most will not turn to "thug life" or even further, revolutionist thoughts, some do. And those do influence other confused around them. It's a snowball effect. Music inspiring this behaviour has become very common in these areas in last 5 years or so too. They talk about the police and vastly overexaggerate what actually happens in the area. While police brutality does occasionally happen, its in almost all cases justified.
The government has known of this trend I am very sure. Some of the more uh...civlised? and educated young people in the area (myself included) have talked to local authorities and to local newspapers about the situation for a long long time. They've done nothing. It's people in the area that have tried to set up things, but almost everything has failed.
Worse is that Swedish winters have become increasingly long under these 5 years too. One of the best and favoured ways of relieving their stress from the everyday has been to play Football or Basketball. You can't do that though with 7-8 month long winters. And we don't really have enough space for everyone in the area to play anyway. So they just "hang out" and let those thoughts breed. Sure, they "could" just go and "study" and shit but really what do they have to motivate them but a father or mother at home that doesn't understand their struggle?
How do you think when someone has to take the train to the city to go to school filled with swedish people who literally do whatever they want, can buy anything they want and act like brats?
Yeah, he's gonna feel like shit. Some might be motivated by it but a majority aren't. Stockholm has a VERY low average quality of the early stages of education too. From when people are 12 and onwards, it takes a massive dip. The teachers are idiots who do it for the money and cannot motivate them nor properly teach them. Doesn't help that there is no one there at all to replace them. It's just a huge mess. At least they are working VERY hard to fix the teacher problem.
But yeah, if you got any questions do ask and I'll try and answer before I sleep.
Edit: I would like to say that everything DeepElemBlues has said is bullshit and not at all relevant to the current situation.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Well, this really makes no sense. A lot of the world's population want to live by the teachings of Allah and spread these teachings and pass them as laws in countries with already pretty well-established laws and customs, like sweden. Anarchy isn't really an option. You can NOT act however you like. And even if "geographic regions dont dictate who you are", it plays a huuuuge role. Why else would there be "geographical" differences between people? And, if people REALLY could act however they wanted, then you must also realize that by criticizing ANYONE, you are putting your own foot in your mouth.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Well, this really makes no sense. A lot of the world's population want to live by the teachings of Allah and spread these teachings and pass them as laws in countries with already pretty well-established laws and customs, like sweden. Anarchy isn't really an option. You can NOT act however you like.
No, they are in that sense very respectful towards the laws of sweden. People here realise that you must at least try to live by the rules of your hosts. Especially since swedish laws do not conflict with mandatory, non-extremist parts of muslim life
Since swedes fled to the states during the "hunger years" 1850-1930. There has always been a excess of immigrants coming to Sweden. The majority of these immigrants have of course been workforce immigrants. But a significant part has been people coming from war zones and more often then not political refugees.
During all of these years different swedish politicians have tried different methods to integrate people as good as possible to their best knowledge. Some more succesful then others.
These 50 kids rioting and burning cars are as someone said before me are probably second generation immigrants and as far as I can see the blame should be with their parents. Not the country they live in that actually provides them with every oppertunity you could think of having a succesful and rich life whatever their religion.
To all of the other internet swedes in this thread. Dont forget to be political correct
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Well, this really makes no sense. A lot of the world's population want to live by the teachings of Allah and spread these teachings and pass them as laws in countries with already pretty well-established laws and customs, like sweden. Anarchy isn't really an option. You can NOT act however you like.
No, they are in that sense very respectful towards the laws of sweden. People here realise that you must at least try to live by the rules of your hosts. Especially since swedish laws do not conflict with mandatory, non-extremist parts of muslim life
Oh yes, most are, but first generation immigrants aren't always. This causes political problems which people seem to mistake for racism.
But that's not the point. Just look at the middle east. A lot of people there want to spread islam. This is what I said...
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
And these progressive rioters are an example of why the "racist" detractors are so wrong, eh? Such a beautiful strong people, they are fighting against the oppressive white swedes who don't give them everything for free. It's so racist that they don't give these people mansions and pay them millions of SEK per year simply to grace Sweden with their culturally enriching presence.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
I don't necessarily think it's a problem. It depends how it manifests. The colloquial usage of racism is far too broadly defined to be of any substantive use and includes many innocuous forms of "racism".
I wouldn't say racial pride, race realism, racial separatism, etc are really "bad" by definition and range from totally innocent to being genuinely beneficial to a persons psychological well-being. On the other hand exterminate everyone not like us, or even we are inherently superior to these sub-humans are pretty bad...
That kind of attitude is preventing the human race from progressing. Nationalism is an outdated concept that ought to be broken down so that we can progress together, and not be bogged down by issues of race, religion, or gender.
On May 21 2013 10:09 Elem wrote: Hello. I live in Husby (where the riots are taking place) and I've lived here for ~18 years in total. I know many of the ones who are parts of this riots. My neighbour also had his windows busted. I want to make it clear that I am against what they are doing, but I will try to explain a bit more of why it is happening. Feel free to ask me any questions, too.
The problem here is that youth in the area are very frustrated, both at themselves and everyone around them. They want change, but honestly they don't actually know how to bring it properly. The reason for this is that the youth in the area really do not have anyone to look up to or to guide them. A vast majority of the people here (>90%) are immigrants or have immigrant parents. There is no focus on helping youth here, they only focus on bringing in jobs to the total populace. There are no youth centers or clubs once you're out of what, 5th grade? A lot of schools have been shut down too.
Combined with the fact that fathers and mothers who haven't properly learnt the language or know how Sweden works properly cannot help them with their "sweden-issues". Since there is no youth center where people who actually know how Sweden works and can help them with any issue they have and support them properly, where can they turn? Nowhere. They end up confused, and while most will not turn to "thug life" or even further, revolutionist thoughts, some do. And those do influence other confused around them. It's a snowball effect. Music inspiring this behaviour has become very common in these areas in last 5 years or so too. They talk about the police and vastly overexaggerate what actually happens in the area. While police brutality does occasionally happen, its in almost all cases justified.
The government has known of this trend I am very sure. Some of the more uh...civlised? and educated young people in the area (myself included) have talked to local authorities and to local newspapers about the situation for a long long time. They've done nothing. It's people in the area that have tried to set up things, but almost everything has failed.
Worse is that Swedish winters have become increasingly long under these 5 years too. One of the best and favoured ways of relieving their stress from the everyday has been to play Football or Basketball. You can't do that though with 7-8 month long winters. And we don't really have enough space for everyone in the area to play anyway. So they just "hang out" and let those thoughts breed. Sure, they "could" just go and "study" and shit but really what do they have to motivate them but a father or mother at home that doesn't understand their struggle?
How do you think when someone has to take the train to the city to go to school filled with swedish people who literally do whatever they want, can buy anything they want and act like brats?
Yeah, he's gonna feel like shit. Some might be motivated by it but a majority aren't. Stockholm has a VERY low average quality of the early stages of education too. From when people are 12 and onwards, it takes a massive dip. The teachers are idiots who do it for the money and cannot motivate them nor properly teach them. Doesn't help that there is no one there at all to replace them. It's just a huge mess. At least they are working VERY hard to fix the teacher problem.
But yeah, if you got any questions do ask and I'll try and answer before I sleep.
Edit: I would like to say that everything DeepElemBlues has said is bullshit and not at all relevant to the current situation.
Thank you for your input. Sounds like a typical urban environment in the States, except harsher.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Total nonsense.
You have elected to completely ignore culture, society, traditions, and human psychology. You can NOT act however you want. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Views like yours are destructive to the very societies they were cultivated in.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
I don't necessarily think it's a problem. It depends how it manifests. The colloquial usage of racism is far too broadly defined to be of any substantive use and includes many innocuous forms of "racism".
I wouldn't say racial pride, race realism, racial separatism, etc are really "bad" by definition and range from totally innocent to being genuinely beneficial to a persons psychological well-being. On the other hand exterminate everyone not like us, or even we are inherently superior to these sub-humans are pretty bad...
That kind of attitude is preventing the human race from progressing. Nationalism is an outdated concept that ought to be broken down so that we can progress together, and not be bogged down by issues of race, religion, or gender.
That's nothing but a flight of progressive fancy. I'd like to agree. I would. But it's just not workable.
Races exist. Fuck, cultures exist and many times are incompatible with one another, and culture tends to delineate along racial lines.
The sexes are different. Feminism is ultimately destructive to society. Men and women are supposed to be partners, not two copies of one another.
Religions are different. Just the division between Islam and Christianity is ludicrous: They're both actively proselytizing religions whose next target converts happen to be the same people (everyone).
I wouldn't say those ideas prevent us from progressing. Quite the contrary, it is through conflict and adversity resulting from human interaction (read war, religious, economic, social competition) that our greatest achievements manifest. The bucolic passivity of the world vision you seem to be talking about is not only impossible, but detrimental to humanity.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Total nonsense.
You have elected to completely ignore culture, society, traditions, and human psychology. You can NOT act however you want. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Views like yours are destructive to the very societies they were cultivated in.
Admitting people aren't equal is a sin to the very type of people you're talking to/about. They wont acknowledge differences in any of these things because it's tantamount to being a racist/nationalist/what have you.
massive immigration of uneducated people from different cultures in systems that provide for the poor is never going to work. Sadly, the problem is here now and nobody has the guts to name it (well, if you do you are a racist). In the meantime, the import of low class immigrants is picking up speed in Europe. It IS important to note that the current situation is not the fault of immigrants but bad policy, though I'd like to argue that a more forceful institutional response could reduce the tensions.
The sad thing is that sooner or later, there will be backlashes from the natives against immigrants because of this, I hope someone has the right idea before this happens to prevent it from occuring or we have 19/20th. cent. all over again.
also lol @ the remark that europe is extremely racist. Ever been to any other part of the world? It's everywhere to a certain extent, and europe is surely not the problem child in this department.
E: also Kimaker is right. Also I am not entirely sure, but I think under international law, one could argue that western cultures currently commit auto-genocide. I bet professors will scratch their heads over this in 300 years :S
So, should NATO intervene in Sweden? Swedens military is prolly less scary then Syrias. I think we should save those those surpressed souls from the swedish tyranny
On May 21 2013 10:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wow. Considering it's next to Finland's elite school system, Sweden's education system seems like a real letdown...
No opinion just statistics here. Finland has 2.7 % first generation immigrants. Sweden has about 15% first generation immigrants.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Looooooooooooool look another sterotypical European poster, whenever someone brings up social problems in a European country it comes back around to American, good logic bro.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
No Sweden is extremely "pro-immigration" since they like to be the world conscience just like USA is the world police. Also they are not about assimilation at all but intergration. They bite off more than they can chew to look good and now it's coming back to bite them.
On May 21 2013 10:17 Kimaker wrote: That's nothing but a flight of progressive fancy. I'd like to agree. I would. But it's just not workable.
Races exist. Fuck, cultures exist and many times are incompatible with one another, and culture tends to delineate along racial lines.
The sexes are different. Feminism is ultimately destructive to society. Men and women are supposed to be partners, not two copies of one another.
Religions are different. Just the division between Islam and Christianity is ludicrous: They're both actively proselytizing religions whose next target converts happen to be the same people (everyone).
I wouldn't say those ideas prevent us from progressing. Quite the contrary, it is through conflict and adversity resulting from human interaction (read war, religious, economic, social competition) that our greatest achievements manifest. The bucolic passivity of the world vision you seem to be talking about is not only impossible, but detrimental to humanity.
You're just cynical. Conditioned to believe it isn't possible by a society that is afraid of change. Smash racial divides. Smash gender conflict. Smash religion. Smash patriarchy.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Racism is a world wide problem. Your attitude could be construed as racist.
I don't necessarily think it's a problem. It depends how it manifests. The colloquial usage of racism is far too broadly defined to be of any substantive use and includes many innocuous forms of "racism".
I wouldn't say racial pride, race realism, racial separatism, etc are really "bad" by definition and range from totally innocent to being genuinely beneficial to a persons psychological well-being. On the other hand exterminate everyone not like us, or even we are inherently superior to these sub-humans are pretty bad...
That kind of attitude is preventing the human race from progressing. Nationalism is an outdated concept that ought to be broken down so that we can progress together, and not be bogged down by issues of race, religion, or gender.
I think borders will play an even bigger role in the future tbh. Issues exist, and we wish to protect ourselves so at least we can have control at home.
I'm not entirely sure that Utopia is just around the corner, nor even the next step.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
Are you fucking kidding me? Racism is everywhere, there's no way to gauge who is worse when it comes to racism.
Asia is horrifically racist. Anyone who has been there for any length of time or tried dating a local over there knows.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
No Sweden is extremely "pro-immigration" since they like to be the world conscience just like USA is the world police. Also they are not about assimilation at all but intergration. They bite off more than they can chew to look good and now it's coming back to bite them.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Total nonsense.
You have elected to completely ignore culture, society, traditions, and human psychology. You can NOT act however you want. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Views like yours are destructive to the very societies they were cultivated in.
Admitting people aren't equal is a sin to the very type of people you're talking to/about. They wont acknowledge differences in any of these things because it's tantamount to being a racist/nationalist/what have you.
Yes but its important to note that by allowing immigrants to retain and express their own culture, we replace nationalism of one country with nationalists of a whole bunch. That's how civil wars start, people loyal to a part of the whole instead of the whole itself. Confederacy in the USA, Chechens in Russia, Muslims in India. Mexico lost a huge part of itself because Americans immigrated into Texas (which was part of Mexico) but didn't want to assimilate, and eventually broke free and asked the US to annex them.
Even with the "When in Rome" maxim, Rome lasted a little longer than it should have because the Germanic tribes who came in first assimilated into Roman culture. Later ones didn't and Rome fragmented to the end.
Edit: quoted the wrong guy, its really more of a reply to alwaysfeeling's sentiment.
On May 21 2013 10:17 Kimaker wrote: That's nothing but a flight of progressive fancy. I'd like to agree. I would. But it's just not workable.
Races exist. Fuck, cultures exist and many times are incompatible with one another, and culture tends to delineate along racial lines.
The sexes are different. Feminism is ultimately destructive to society. Men and women are supposed to be partners, not two copies of one another.
Religions are different. Just the division between Islam and Christianity is ludicrous: They're both actively proselytizing religions whose next target converts happen to be the same people (everyone).
I wouldn't say those ideas prevent us from progressing. Quite the contrary, it is through conflict and adversity resulting from human interaction (read war, religious, economic, social competition) that our greatest achievements manifest. The bucolic passivity of the world vision you seem to be talking about is not only impossible, but detrimental to humanity.
You're just cynical. Conditioned to believe it isn't possible by a society that is afraid of change. Smash racial divides. Smash gender conflict. Smash religion. Smash patriarchy.
On May 21 2013 10:17 Kimaker wrote: That's nothing but a flight of progressive fancy. I'd like to agree. I would. But it's just not workable.
Races exist. Fuck, cultures exist and many times are incompatible with one another, and culture tends to delineate along racial lines.
The sexes are different. Feminism is ultimately destructive to society. Men and women are supposed to be partners, not two copies of one another.
Religions are different. Just the division between Islam and Christianity is ludicrous: They're both actively proselytizing religions whose next target converts happen to be the same people (everyone).
I wouldn't say those ideas prevent us from progressing. Quite the contrary, it is through conflict and adversity resulting from human interaction (read war, religious, economic, social competition) that our greatest achievements manifest. The bucolic passivity of the world vision you seem to be talking about is not only impossible, but detrimental to humanity.
You're just cynical. Conditioned to believe it isn't possible by a society that is afraid of change. Smash racial divides. Smash gender conflict. Smash religion. Smash patriarchy.
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
On May 21 2013 09:19 JacobDaKung wrote: Young angry frustrated people do stupid shit, i think this has less to do with minority/race what not rather then the frustration that no jobs can be found. Also the police are sadly under represented on the street, they dont seem to patrol at all just engage when called upon,
Except every time there's a riot that's being reported, it's started by one racial group. A hint: You can hear Allah Akbar during these riots.
I disagree. The riots in England were from multiple racial groups with different ethnic and religious backgrounds.
The two main groups in the English riots were white-skinned English trash with no religion and brown-skinned trash with the Muslim religion.
Doesn't change the fact that in the major non-Greek riots in Europe the last ten years the main perpetrators or a major group of the perpetrators were poor brown-skinned Muslims. Who were/are rioting because the white-skinned people who make the decisions don't give two fucks about them.
I live in Clapham Junction, I walked down my high street as the riots were going on. There was looting, they set fire to multiple shops and trashed the area that I have lived in for the last 15 years. In my particular area the racial balance was mostly black and white and both groups were non-muslim. They were poor people who simply jumped on a bandwagon as they heard about other surrounding areas requiring so much police support and they realised that they could have a free shopping spree. I posted a lengthy post about it on this site the day after.
Please dont talk out of your fucking arse.
As the other Brits have posted this was nothing to do with race or religion. The next day they simply went back to mugging, stealing and dealing drugs because they were gang members (in Clapham Junction). I was a witness along with many others who provided information to the Police which helped convict some of these people. The riots started in an area of Tottenham the day before because a drug dealer who was carrying a gun was shot. Wouldn't that also happen int he good old US of A?
The last time we had race riots was in Brixton in the 80's which is less recently than the Rodney King riots in your country.
Every country that has experienced mass immigration in the world has racism, including the US. Pot, Kettle, Black.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
Immigrants need to make a better effort to integrate and countries need to make a better effort to integrate as well. You can't expect to move to a new country and live exactly like you did in your old. I mean if you want to be a Swedish citizen you have to accept their culture, because that's what makes the country what it is and makes people want to immigrate there in the first place.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
In Canada... we riot over Hockey, I can't say to much about oppressed people rioting over their rights. That being said I would argue that this is a bit sensationalist... it wasn't even a 'riot'... 50 young people throwing rocks around because they're angry at a mistake that was made hardly constitutes as a 'riot' if not just social unrest.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
He's actually the only one providing facts via links to major news sites. The rest of you are pretty much just typing what's on your mind and nothing else. I find it very ironic that you would call him "completely uninformed".
On May 21 2013 10:47 Hitch-22 wrote: In Canada... we riot over Hockey, I can't say to much about oppressed people rioting over their rights. That being said I would argue that this is a bit sensationalist... it wasn't even a 'riot'... 50 young people throwing rocks around because they're angry at a mistake that was made.
You not see that video I posted? Burning cars, assaulting cops, damaging property. That's pretty riot-y, wouldn't you say?
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
Aka gangs of mostly-Muslim youth that Sweden has made little to no effort to assimilate into Swedish society...
How do you mean? They come here, get roof over their heads, food on the table, free education (you even get money monthly for studying here), their parents gets compensated economically to just live and learn Swedish and other kinds of education if they don't work. There is a massive housing shortage in Sweden so they naturally seek to each other out in the suburbs (which indeed is really bad for everyone involved) But they don't even try themselves, you gotta have some willpower if you want to get somewhere.
These people are also most likely second generation immigrants being born here and they have nothing to blame their "failure" of getting into society on. There are tons of second and third generation immigrants that behaved like a normal person growing up and put in the effort in school to become something instead of hanging around with their countrymen playing gangster with the "Fuck Sweden and the police"-attitude that is so common.
I am eagerly awaiting a response from DeepElemBlues on this. It seems like he was completely uninformed. What more can a country do to help its immigrants than what Sweden does? If those immigrants cannot be peaceful in Sweden then they can't be peaceful anywhere in the West.
He's actually the only one providing facts via links to major news sites. The rest of you are pretty much just typing what's on your mind and nothing else. I find it very ironic that you would call him "completely uninformed".
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
Too bad even the leftists tend to hate you literary "critic" types.
He's actually the only one providing facts via links to major news sites. The rest of you are pretty much just typing what's on your mind and nothing else. I find it very ironic that you would call him "completely uninformed".
You do realise that most of us calling him a moron actually live in the bloody countries and dont need a news article to actually talk? We've seen this shit and we actually know the situation.
On May 21 2013 10:47 Hitch-22 wrote: In Canada... we riot over Hockey, I can't say to much about oppressed people rioting over their rights. That being said I would argue that this is a bit sensationalist... it wasn't even a 'riot'... 50 young people throwing rocks around because they're angry at a mistake that was made.
They have set alight 20+ cars over the past 2 days, they smashed up the local subway station too and attacked houses and a daycare. People too. It's not exactly Vancouver but it's definitively civil unrest occuring in this area.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
We have our own problem, it's totally true. But please, look at your own country. We are maybe the "most racist continent" but we don't build a wall in our border and have citizens with guns who killed mexicans, we had no segregation just 50 years ago... The per capita income of the Afro americans and Latinos in US is still at 60% of the white one, the prison are 80% black, and you have your own extremist who hates what is not WASP. Plus i don't forget the americans riots in the 90's in the black ghetto. I don't blame it, we have our own problem too, and in France we have our racists (but it's not all the population like you said, even if the FN made 20% at the last election), but please stop generalisation and say we are the biggest racists on earth, like if US are the best anti racist place since Obama was elect. It's not a competition and every country have problem with racism and intolerence.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
This is quite propably the most stupid shit I've read today. No, Sweden is not being annexed in a weird isalmic, cultural crusade. Not in any fucking way. What is happening is that we're actually trying to live by our own fucking standards: tolerance, solidarity, equality, freedom and democracy. We're allowing immigrants to come, because the country where they lived is most probably a fucking train-wreck at the moment (most immigrants that have come to us this millenium are from Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and such countries (earlier most came from east Asia or from eas Europe)). As we preach solidarity and that all people should be given equal chances in life, we try to give those people homes, jobs, education and opportunities in life. Because they need the help, in contrast to most swedish people here, who quite literally drowns in money and possibilities.
Calling Islam stone age shit is just stupid name-calling. Swedish society is built on christian values, who are, actually, older than muslim ones. And they're still not stone age...
I've met a lot more blonde and blue-eyed, atheist swedes who are homophobic or misogynist than muslims who are. Actually, almost all muslims I've met have been extremely subservient and peaceful. And still, if we as a society actually believe in freedom of conscience, speech and opinions, we can't de-legitimize those views on people, as little as I can say that because you appear as a racist bastard, you have to leave our country. No, because Sweden is democratic and tolerant, and fucking equal.
I grew up in the part of town called the ghetto by the rest of inhabitants, and what I've noticed is that a lot of those people who hang around, not doing much, most of them immigrants; they are actually some of the most hard-working, opportunity-seizing and honest people around. We swedes are a lot lazier and feel a lot more entitled to having things for free that they actually have to fight for. The immigrants I've known have started working, earning their own money and having to live by themselves earlier than any of us ethnically swedish.
No, riots are not always caused by the same ethnic minority. In Lund, for example, there's a nazist/anti-fascist-riot that happens annually, in November. There we have whites fighting other whites, mostly. When violent demonstrations happen, they're almost always connected to the leftists, who in Sweden are known as stone-throwers.
First of all, I hope we can have a fruitful and cordial discussion on this topic. Being from America, I don't hear much news about Sweden (other than esports), but every time I do, it's about riots caused by the same minority group in Sweden. Now, I can't pretend to know the social dynamics of the country, but if there's a consistent pattern to social unrest in the country, why doesn't anyone do anything about it? I know Sweden is all about equality and whatnot, but at what point do you say enough and protect the citizens of the country?
I think sending Riot Police qualifies as protecting the citizens. I dont think there were many that got hurt by the rioters. Other then that, what do you want the Swedes to do about this?
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
I thought I was very coherant, albeit polemic.
Are you really throwing Dawkins at me and telling me that it matters what I read?
And I think it's pretty clear I support breaking down the society that thinks immigration is a problem, to the point that there are no such things as nationality or race for people to be divided on, only people. I am a person, I live on planet earth. I like some people, I dislike other people, not because of the colour of their skin, beliefs or gender. Is that really too much of a difficult concept to grasp?
If we lived in a world without these concepts people wouldn't feel the need to leave in the first place - and if they did, they wouldn't be welcomed with such hostility.
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
To begin, I apologize, I genuinely thought you were trolling me. I did not intend that to be insulting.
Moving on...
Are you aware that you're not fighting some monolithic conservative power structure? Are you aware that the left actually won the culture war? Are you aware that for the last 40 years or so Progressivism has been the prevailing ideological motif being expressed in Western society?
Quite frankly, I find your position more insulting. I've clearly been forced into this political and philosophical mindset by my....what? Culture? Parents? Religion? Country? People? Environment? What? Don't be vapid.
No sir, I genuinely disagree with you. I've read the books of the Frankfurt school, I'm well versed in Critical Theory. I've read the Communist Manifesto (4 times) as well as the Doctrina Fascista and (the Progressive Cultural Bible) Guns, Germs and Steel.
I've also read Carlyle, and Machiavelli, and Hobbes. I'm working on the classics, and I've looked at Spengler and Rothbard and Tocqueville.
Larkin, I am not brainwashed, as much as you'd like to think I am. I'm extremely studied. And my studies have honestly led me to these conclusions.
Also: "You're just cynical. Conditioned to believe it isn't possible by a society that is afraid of change."
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
To begin, I apologize, I genuinely thought you were trolling me. I did not intend that to be insulting.
Moving on...
Are you aware that you're not fighting some monolithic conservative power structure? Are you aware that the left actually won the culture war? Are you aware that for the last 40 years or so Progressivism has been the prevailing ideological motif being expressed in Western society?
Quite frankly, I find your position more insulting. I've clearly been forced into this political and philosophical mindset by my....what? Culture? Parents? Religion? Country? People? Environment? What? Don't be vapid.
No sir, I genuinely disagree with you. I've read the books of the Frankfurt school, I'm well versed in Critical Theory. I've read the Communist Manifesto (4 times) as well as the Doctrina Fascista and (the Progressive Cultural Bible) Guns, Germs and Steel.
I've also read Carlyle, and Machiavelli, and Hobbes. I'm working on the classics, and I've looked at Spengler and Rothbard and Tocqueville.
Larkin, I am not brainwashed, as much as you'd like to think I am. I'm extremely studied. And my studies have honestly led me to these conclusions.
Why would you have a fundamental right/left discussion in this topic? Seems nort really appropriate. Mind you this is a typical American discussion anyway thats quite alien to us Euros and not really interesting.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
To begin, I apologize, I genuinely thought you were trolling me. I did not intend that to be insulting.
Moving on...
Are you aware that you're not fighting some monolithic conservative power structure? Are you aware that the left actually won the culture war? Are you aware that for the last 40 years or so Progressivism has been the prevailing ideological motif being expressed in Western society?
Quite frankly, I find your position more insulting. I've clearly been forced into this political and philosophical mindset by my....what? Culture? Parents? Religion? Country? People? Environment? What? Don't be vapid.
No sir, I genuinely disagree with you. I've read the books of the Frankfurt school, I'm well versed in Critical Theory. I've read the Communist Manifesto (4 times) as well as the Doctrina Fascista and (the Progressive Cultural Bible) Guns, Germs and Steel.
I've also read Carlyle, and Machiavelli, and Hobbes. I'm working on the classics, and I've looked at Spengler and Rothbard and Tocqueville.
Larkin, I am not brainwashed, as much as you'd like to think I am. I'm extremely studied. And my studies have honestly led me to these conclusions.
Why would you have a fundamental right/left discussion in this topic? Seems nort really appopriate. Mind you this is a typical American discussion anyway thats quite alien to us Euros and not really interesting.
Fuck. You're right, sorry. Larkin, let's take this to PM.
People are talking a lot about how European countries like Sweden are giving immigrants everything they could need, like food , a roof, money and education, but for me the most problems with immigrants, especially Muslim immigrants, stem from the fact that many European countries seem to share the opinion that integration equals assimilation.
Here in Germany we have similar problems , too. It's not the first generation of Turkish immigrants that get violent, it's the second and the third. And that's, at least in my opinion, mainly because they feel like they can't live their culture or religion anymore. They don't feel accepted by the natives, but they also can't connect to their roots anymore. So they end up with out any orientation or group and get lost and agressive.
I don't see why immigrants can't have mosques and practice their religion in western countries without being frowned upon. A country is whatever the people who live in make out of it.Especially our generations. And i find it really troublesome if a country that has a high number of immigrants does not mirror that. Democracy also implies that minorities get protected and that they can express their culture freely, as long as no one is harmed and it does not violate the law.
For me forcing people who have helped to built up our country(and that's especially true for immigrants in Germany here) to give up their roots and to assimilate is just insulting. These people actually could bring cultural diversity to our countries, but most people seem to be to simple minded and stubborn to acknowledge that.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
I thought I was very coherant, albeit polemic.
Are you really throwing Dawkins at me and telling me that it matters what I read?
And I think it's pretty clear I support breaking down the society that thinks immigration is a problem, to the point that there are no such things as nationality or race for people to be divided on, only people. I am a person, I live on planet earth. I like some people, I dislike other people, not because of the colour of their skin, beliefs or gender. Is that really too much of a difficult concept to grasp?
If we lived in a world without these concepts people wouldn't feel the need to leave in the first place - and if they did, they wouldn't be welcomed with such hostility.
Well do you best to keep your whimsical imaginings about destroying cultures and people around the world for your fantasy land elsewhere, please. It lends nothing to this thread.
Another video of white racists and their "free speech", how offensive.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
I thought I was very coherant, albeit polemic.
Are you really throwing Dawkins at me and telling me that it matters what I read?
And I think it's pretty clear I support breaking down the society that thinks immigration is a problem, to the point that there are no such things as nationality or race for people to be divided on, only people. I am a person, I live on planet earth. I like some people, I dislike other people, not because of the colour of their skin, beliefs or gender. Is that really too much of a difficult concept to grasp?
If we lived in a world without these concepts people wouldn't feel the need to leave in the first place - and if they did, they wouldn't be welcomed with such hostility.
Well do you best to keep your whimsical imaginings about destroying cultures and people around the world for your fantasy land elsewhere, please. It lends nothing to this thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sskbRzeu6JE Another video of white racists and their "free speech", how offensive.
Please... Fox News, even in Euro we know the type of objective "information" they make.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
I thought I was very coherant, albeit polemic.
Are you really throwing Dawkins at me and telling me that it matters what I read?
And I think it's pretty clear I support breaking down the society that thinks immigration is a problem, to the point that there are no such things as nationality or race for people to be divided on, only people. I am a person, I live on planet earth. I like some people, I dislike other people, not because of the colour of their skin, beliefs or gender. Is that really too much of a difficult concept to grasp?
If we lived in a world without these concepts people wouldn't feel the need to leave in the first place - and if they did, they wouldn't be welcomed with such hostility.
Well do you best to keep your whimsical imaginings about destroying cultures and people around the world for your fantasy land elsewhere, please. It lends nothing to this thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sskbRzeu6JE Another video of white racists and their "free speech", how offensive.
Please... Fox News, even in Euro we know the type of objective "information" they make.
On May 21 2013 10:09 Elem wrote: Hello. I live in Husby (where the riots are taking place) and I've lived here for ~18 years in total. I know many of the ones who are parts of this riots. My neighbour also had his windows busted. I want to make it clear that I am against what they are doing, but I will try to explain a bit more of why it is happening. Feel free to ask me any questions, too.
The problem here is that youth in the area are very frustrated, both at themselves and everyone around them. They want change, but honestly they don't actually know how to bring it properly. The reason for this is that the youth in the area really do not have anyone to look up to or to guide them. A vast majority of the people here (>90%) are immigrants or have immigrant parents. There is no focus on helping youth here, they only focus on bringing in jobs to the total populace. There are no youth centers or clubs once you're out of what, 5th grade? A lot of schools have been shut down too.
Combined with the fact that fathers and mothers who haven't properly learnt the language or know how Sweden works properly cannot help them with their "sweden-issues". Since there is no youth center where people who actually know how Sweden works and can help them with any issue they have and support them properly, where can they turn? Nowhere. They end up confused, and while most will not turn to "thug life" or even further, revolutionist thoughts, some do. And those do influence other confused around them. It's a snowball effect. Music inspiring this behaviour has become very common in these areas in last 5 years or so too. They talk about the police and vastly overexaggerate what actually happens in the area. While police brutality does occasionally happen, its in almost all cases justified.
The government has known of this trend I am very sure. Some of the more uh...civlised? and educated young people in the area (myself included) have talked to local authorities and to local newspapers about the situation for a long long time. They've done nothing. It's people in the area that have tried to set up things, but almost everything has failed.
Worse is that Swedish winters have become increasingly long under these 5 years too. One of the best and favoured ways of relieving their stress from the everyday has been to play Football or Basketball. You can't do that though with 7-8 month long winters. And we don't really have enough space for everyone in the area to play anyway. So they just "hang out" and let those thoughts breed. Sure, they "could" just go and "study" and shit but really what do they have to motivate them but a father or mother at home that doesn't understand their struggle?
How do you think when someone has to take the train to the city to go to school filled with swedish people who literally do whatever they want, can buy anything they want and act like brats?
Yeah, he's gonna feel like shit. Some might be motivated by it but a majority aren't. Stockholm has a VERY low average quality of the early stages of education too. From when people are 12 and onwards, it takes a massive dip. The teachers are idiots who do it for the money and cannot motivate them nor properly teach them. Doesn't help that there is no one there at all to replace them. It's just a huge mess. At least they are working VERY hard to fix the teacher problem.
But yeah, if you got any questions do ask and I'll try and answer before I sleep.
Edit: I would like to say that everything DeepElemBlues has said is bullshit and not at all relevant to the current situation.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
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Ah there we go, throwing the racist card again. Like a true Swede. Your post just screams PC and you sound so bias. The fact that you can't see how Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is so backwards scares me. You almost have to wonder why all of their home countries are fucked up in the first place (hint: religion).
Well, this is has turned into a fascinating discussion about modernism. We have our modernist champion Larkin, and we've already invoked the two figureheads of modernism for the unlearned, Dawkins and Chomsky. They really are perfect because they believe their one discipline should subsume all disciplines (although it's all History in different disguises).
Kimaker- For shame. You should have known from his previous posts that Larkin was serious.Those are the central tenets of Marxism all neatly explained. You have much to learn of the world. :p
Larkin- While your beliefs are no doubt well intended, what you propose would instead aggravate the problem. It doesn't matter where you are, extreme behavior such as this- whether it is riots in LA or Sweden or terrorism- arise because a culture has suffered great violence and the support that should guide these young men is absent. Seeking to erase all culture would be as disastrous as asking them to simply adopt the Swedish culture.
On May 21 2013 11:04 Darkdwarf wrote: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, riots are not always caused by the same ethnic minority. In Lund, for example, there's a nazist/anti-fascist-riot that happens annually, in November. There we have whites fighting other whites, mostly. When violent demonstrations happen, they're almost always connected to the leftists, who in Sweden are known as stone-throwers.
Any recent sources on this? I've lived in Lund for three years without noticing any riots and Lund is not a big city. Most recent example I can find seem to be from 2008 where violence did occur but nobody was seriously injured. While I might have missed it, it's not like I read the news every single day, I feel like you are misusing the word riot here; which paints quite the inaccurate picture for anyone not from here.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
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Ah there we go, throwing the racist card again. Like a true Swede. Your post just screams PC and you sound so bias. The fact that you can't see how Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is so backwards scares me. You almost have to wonder why all of their home countries are fucked up in the first place (hint: religion).
You are a retard, showing a or several videos of some muslims prohibiting free speech is not the same as all muslims are against free speech. The other post, why was he awarded money? Because he was _forced_ to shake hand regardless of his religious belief. I can refuse to shake hands and my boss cannot force me to do it, i might not get a continuation on that working place but it is his choice, or dont you believe in personal freedom.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
wall of text
Ah there we go, throwing the racist card again. Like a true Swede. Your post just screams PC and you sound so bias. The fact that you can't see how Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is so backwards scares me. You almost have to wonder why all of their home countries are fucked up in the first place (hint: religion).
I don't want to be that guy, but the amount of times you use the word "PC" or "Political Correctness" kind of undermines your whole stance on not "throwing words around".
I hear people complaining about being called racists far more often than I hear people calling other people racists.
OnT:
This isn't a culture or ethnicity problem, this is like everything about class. Ever since we switched government, the amount of violent clashes in working class areas has grown exponentially. It's like Thatcher in the UK. There were an incredible amount of riots in working class areas then and there too, but almost no muslims were present. When you treat working class kids badly and you don't give them any other way to express their feelings, they will start to riot. That's just a historical fact. It might be mindless, yes. It might be unnecessary, yes. But just dismissing it as something that has happened in a vacuum is just mindblowingly ignorant. Instead try to analyze what has happened, and see it for what it is. The last thing these kids need is more blame.
On May 21 2013 11:04 Darkdwarf wrote: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, riots are not always caused by the same ethnic minority. In Lund, for example, there's a nazist/anti-fascist-riot that happens annually, in November. There we have whites fighting other whites, mostly. When violent demonstrations happen, they're almost always connected to the leftists, who in Sweden are known as stone-throwers.
Any recent sources on this? I've lived in Lund for three years without noticing any riots and Lund is not a big city. Most recent example I can find seem to be from 2008 where violence did occur but nobody was seriously injured. While I might have missed it, it's not like I read the news every single day, I feel like you are misusing the word riot here; which paints quite the inaccurate picture for anyone not from here.
In the 90s Lund was pretty infested with Neo-nazis. They marched annually and antifascists always tried to stop them. They stopped when the neo-nazi movement in Lund almost died out but they marched one more time in 2008. Since then nothing has happened.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
wall of text
Ah there we go, throwing the racist card again. Like a true Swede. Your post just screams PC and you sound so bias. The fact that you can't see how Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is so backwards scares me. You almost have to wonder why all of their home countries are fucked up in the first place (hint: religion).
I did not say racist, and I do not believe people who are against immigrants or Islam to be necessarily racist. I didn't say that Islam's not backwards either; I stated that it is painfully obviously not stone-age. I would attribute lots of the problems in the Middle-East and Africa to European imperialism, though. If religion is what fucked up their countries, by necessity, religion should have had Sweden fucked up until just recently, when the state went through secularization. As I previously stated, Sweden is built upon christianity, so thoroughly that it is still written into our constitution that our head of state must be a protestant christian.
On May 21 2013 11:04 Darkdwarf wrote: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, riots are not always caused by the same ethnic minority. In Lund, for example, there's a nazist/anti-fascist-riot that happens annually, in November. There we have whites fighting other whites, mostly. When violent demonstrations happen, they're almost always connected to the leftists, who in Sweden are known as stone-throwers.
Any recent sources on this? I've lived in Lund for three years without noticing any riots and Lund is not a big city. Most recent example I can find seem to be from 2008 where violence did occur but nobody was seriously injured. While I might have missed it, it's not like I read the news every single day, I feel like you are misusing the word riot here; which paints quite the inaccurate picture for anyone not from here.
Well, riot is probably an overstatement for these events, even though they have resulted in lots of violence and ruffles over the years. The last few years have actually been quite calm, when you point it out, though. Point being that they're kind of as close to riots as we come in most of Sweden.
Blaming imperialism and nazis for things that happened yesterday, I don't even know what's going on anymore but the amount of mental gymnastics going on in here is Olympian.
On May 21 2013 09:30 aksfjh wrote: If I'm not mistaken, Sweden is very "anti-immigration." Not that they hate the people that come there, but wish them to become Swedish rather than bring in their own heritage.
That's understandable. If everyone brought in other cultures there would be no Swedish culture left anymore. I think immigrants should be able to hold on to some of their identity especially in private but they should also strive to become part of the culture that they move to.
That's absurd. "Strive to become part of the culture" "would be no Swedish culture left anymore" What does that even mean? We're all human beings. It doesn't matter to what part of the world you move to, you can act however you like. Geographic regions/governments do not dictate who you are.
Of course it matters where you live. Sweden being such a religion free society with proper equality rights and all that jazz, I don't want Islam forced upon me. Muslims are trying to use Islam for personal gain and bring bad stuff from their religion that has no place here, or anywhere else for that matter. It's just wrong that things like honor killings are happening here because they bring their stone age shit to Sweden. Or the typical islamic view on women and homosexuals. But things like that are fine by you because "you can act however you like"?
wall of text
Ah there we go, throwing the racist card again. Like a true Swede. Your post just screams PC and you sound so bias. The fact that you can't see how Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is so backwards scares me. You almost have to wonder why all of their home countries are fucked up in the first place (hint: religion).
I did not say racist, and I do not believe people who are against immigrants or Islam to be necessarily racist. I didn't say that Islam's not backwards either; I stated that it is painfully obviously not stone-age. I would attribute lots of the problems in the Middle-East and Africa to European imperialism, though. If religion is what fucked up their countries, by necessity, religion should have had Sweden fucked up until just recently, when the state went through secularization. As I previously stated, Sweden is built upon christianity, so thoroughly that it is still written into our constitution that our head of state must be a protestant christian.
On May 21 2013 11:04 Darkdwarf wrote: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, riots are not always caused by the same ethnic minority. In Lund, for example, there's a nazist/anti-fascist-riot that happens annually, in November. There we have whites fighting other whites, mostly. When violent demonstrations happen, they're almost always connected to the leftists, who in Sweden are known as stone-throwers.
Any recent sources on this? I've lived in Lund for three years without noticing any riots and Lund is not a big city. Most recent example I can find seem to be from 2008 where violence did occur but nobody was seriously injured. While I might have missed it, it's not like I read the news every single day, I feel like you are misusing the word riot here; which paints quite the inaccurate picture for anyone not from here.
Well, riot is probably an overstatement for these events, even though they have resulted in lots of violence and ruffles over the years. The last few years have actually been quite calm, when you point it out, though. Point being that they're kind of as close to riots as we come in most of Sweden.
On May 21 2013 10:09 Elem wrote: Hello. I live in Husby (where the riots are taking place) and I've lived here for ~18 years in total. I know many of the ones who are parts of this riots. My neighbour also had his windows busted. I want to make it clear that I am against what they are doing, but I will try to explain a bit more of why it is happening. Feel free to ask me any questions, too.
The problem here is that youth in the area are very frustrated, both at themselves and everyone around them. They want change, but honestly they don't actually know how to bring it properly. The reason for this is that the youth in the area really do not have anyone to look up to or to guide them. A vast majority of the people here (>90%) are immigrants or have immigrant parents. There is no focus on helping youth here, they only focus on bringing in jobs to the total populace. There are no youth centers or clubs once you're out of what, 5th grade? A lot of schools have been shut down too.
Combined with the fact that fathers and mothers who haven't properly learnt the language or know how Sweden works properly cannot help them with their "sweden-issues". Since there is no youth center where people who actually know how Sweden works and can help them with any issue they have and support them properly, where can they turn? Nowhere. They end up confused, and while most will not turn to "thug life" or even further, revolutionist thoughts, some do. And those do influence other confused around them. It's a snowball effect. Music inspiring this behaviour has become very common in these areas in last 5 years or so too. They talk about the police and vastly overexaggerate what actually happens in the area. While police brutality does occasionally happen, its in almost all cases justified.
The government has known of this trend I am very sure. Some of the more uh...civlised? and educated young people in the area (myself included) have talked to local authorities and to local newspapers about the situation for a long long time. They've done nothing. It's people in the area that have tried to set up things, but almost everything has failed.
Worse is that Swedish winters have become increasingly long under these 5 years too. One of the best and favoured ways of relieving their stress from the everyday has been to play Football or Basketball. You can't do that though with 7-8 month long winters. And we don't really have enough space for everyone in the area to play anyway. So they just "hang out" and let those thoughts breed. Sure, they "could" just go and "study" and shit but really what do they have to motivate them but a father or mother at home that doesn't understand their struggle?
How do you think when someone has to take the train to the city to go to school filled with swedish people who literally do whatever they want, can buy anything they want and act like brats?
Yeah, he's gonna feel like shit. Some might be motivated by it but a majority aren't. Stockholm has a VERY low average quality of the early stages of education too. From when people are 12 and onwards, it takes a massive dip. The teachers are idiots who do it for the money and cannot motivate them nor properly teach them. Doesn't help that there is no one there at all to replace them. It's just a huge mess. At least they are working VERY hard to fix the teacher problem.
But yeah, if you got any questions do ask and I'll try and answer before I sleep.
Edit: I would like to say that everything DeepElemBlues has said is bullshit and not at all relevant to the current situation.
I'm a Swede and I second this point. I've spent alot of time in Husby, Rinkeby and Tensta and have personally seen the ways in which the population of these areas appear to be abandoned by society. The young have nobody to look up to. Banks and other employers have chosen to shut down their offices in these areas and move to nearby communities, I mean, the kids don't even see people going to work in the mornings.
Schools and parks are in shit shape and there seems to be no initiative from authorities to take care of integration issues, I can understand - while I strongly disagree with - the frustration felt by the youth. I feel it too when I visit even though I am fortunate to live in an area where these problems don't exist.
As for the "smash patriarchy" guy, stop reading tumblr and go read a book.
I hate tumblr. And I study Literature.
On May 21 2013 10:33 Kimaker wrote:
Right there...makes me 99% sure you're trolling.
There is no fear my good sir. Simply convictions.
On May 21 2013 10:34 Cutlery wrote:
..Just no. He is not cynical but realistic. As for your smashing; are you trolling at this point, or would you prefer to live on your own planet?
You actually need those things which you do not like to protect the things you do like.
"You have views I consider extreme, therefore you must be trolling!" I was being slightly hyperbolic for effect but I do want to see these borders broken down.
Some people actually want the world to change. Sometimes revolutionary change is a good thing. I can't be that much of a villain for wanting people to live in harmony as people, rather than constantly dividing people based on social fabrications such as "culture".
And I didn't say anything about fear, Kimaker. I simply think you've been forced into these convictions. Much like the Red Scare.
In the utterly worthless field of theory, of that much I'm certain. I'm so glad we could be graced with such a lofty intellectual, who's studies are of such importance as literature. Please, preach to us from the Ivory Tower about how white racism bourgeoisie science is keeping the world from progressing and being truly multicultural. I'm all ears.
So after your first ad hominem of "go read a book", when I responded that my entire degree is about reading books, you resorted to more ad hominem. Nice one. Going to offer anything productive or just continue with unnecessary insults?
It matters what you're reading and judging from your "smash everything I don't like" rambling incoherence, I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
Yeah, and you just posted a stupid youtube video of an evolutionary biologists opinions on.....well what exactly I cannot tell, other than the focus on the term "postmodernism" and its supposed "invasion" of the sciences. I can tell the type of drivel you consume. Get back on subject, so we can continue this conversation about Sweden and its immigration problem.
Lots of social problems are just swept under the rug in Europe.
Always love it when Americans reveal their ignorance by talking about "Europe" as if it was some kind of nation.
Always love it when some smug ignorant European makes himself look dumb.
Your continent is the most racist place in the world outside of the Middle East or Asia. Just start any thread about Roma here at TL and watch the hate from France to Poland and everywhere in between pour in. Just look at the football hooliganism racism that stains European football. Just look at the riots in France, the riots in England, the riots now in Sweden, riots of the mostly-brown-skinned against the mostly-white-skinned powers that be. Why? Because for some reason, in heaven on earth, Europe, people who don't have white skin seem to have big trouble getting out of poverty, getting a quality education, getting hired at quality jobs. Where's all that social welfare spending going that white people in Europe are doing so much better than non-white people?
I could go on and on but it's not really necessary.
Racism is a pervasive, Europe-wide problem, and there is not one country that is particularly better or worse than any other (except France, they're really bad racists there).
I dont think you can understand that. US has 200 years of history, while Europe has centuries of heritage. You can look up in the history books that mostly the "racism" comes from protecting your territory. Honestly, I never liked saying that you are "racist" if you talk about someone from different country, because that can be interpreted in a lot of ways. And most of the time totally misleading.
As of Muslims in Sweden... I don't really know anything about that since I dont live there... But from what I've heard they mostly just trash everything around them and provoke fights, thats why they don't like them in Sweden. Same goes for Turks in Germany.
Came into this thread to try to respond about this so called "rioting" in Sweden and the latest post I see is a video of Richard Dawkings and his Freedom from Religion speech and some history debate relating to US... what hell has happened in this thread? O_o
On May 21 2013 12:03 Integra wrote: Came into this thread to try to respond about this so called "rioting" in Sweden and the latest post I see is a video of Richard Dawkings and his Freedom from Religion speech and some history debate relating to US... what hell has happened in this thread? O_o
On May 21 2013 12:03 Integra wrote: Came into this thread to try to respond about this so called "rioting" in Sweden and the latest post I see is a video of Richard Dawkings and his Freedom from Religion speech and some history debate relating to US... what hell has happened in this thread? O_o
On May 21 2013 12:03 Integra wrote: Came into this thread to try to respond about this so called "rioting" in Sweden and the latest post I see is a video of Richard Dawkings and his Freedom from Religion speech and some history debate relating to US... what hell has happened in this thread? O_o
What do ideologies and pseudo-intellectual movements have to do with Sweden, it's immigration issues and this current event that the thread is based on. They all have a lot to do with each other, either read the thread to fill yourself in or don't even bother asking such a stupid question. It's a series of responses back and forth, I don't see any of you talking about; https://files.nyu.edu/ts43/public/research/SNS_LjungqvistSargent14.pdf Presumably because hurrr immigration gud and you're raciss if you think otherwise.
EPT
