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On March 02 2013 02:04 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:42 Al Bundy wrote:
This thread is kind of a nightmare to read to be honest. I wish teenagers would stop pretending they know business Nightmare? It's as of now 4chan worthy, this along with the "IGN to simplying and focus" thread.
let's just leave it at "teenagers pretending they know business" and cut the 4chan crap
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On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying 
I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world.
The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat.
SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL.
I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go.
Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
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On March 02 2013 01:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:48 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is. I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays.
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On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
According to Liquipedia and a few other sources SC2 is actually up on LoL last year. While I don't doubt your maths ability, I trust Liquipedia on these matters above most other people. Also, I think that Riot bumping up LoL's prize pool artifcially (using their own money) isn't a good think, same with The International in Dota 2. However, that's a discussion for another topic ^^
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On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
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On March 02 2013 02:26 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:54 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 01:48 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is. I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them. I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays.
I only used what I need to get the job done, not more, no less. And I don’t need to “expand my arsenal”, it is already diverse and robust. I do think you need to turn it down a few notches or cut back on the redbulls, because your going a little over the top.
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On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha.
Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
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On March 02 2013 02:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha. Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now.
Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
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On March 02 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha. Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now. Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings.
aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
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naniwa is probably mad as fuck lol
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On March 02 2013 02:38 nikola_tesla wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 02:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha. Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now. Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings. aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads?
Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works.
Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him.
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On March 02 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:38 nikola_tesla wrote:On March 02 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 02:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha. Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now. Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings. aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads? Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works. Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him.
he kind of stole that line from socrates, lol
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On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much.
From A guy that just turned 35 .... Fuck YOU!!!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
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On March 02 2013 02:43 nikola_tesla wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:40 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 02:38 nikola_tesla wrote:On March 02 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 02:33 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 02:31 ACrow wrote:On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. Wow, you have a pretty bad impression of 35 year olds. I guarantee you, the best is yet to come for a 35yo, haha. Haha noo, don't take it that way. I meant as in yeah, they are not as healthy as 20 year olds(which is true, considering both have a similar lifestyle), but they have more experience etc which can be seen by how Starcraft 2 having a strong community and what seems to be better organization than any other esport community. Teamliquid has been improving for 9 year now. Its a good think you backed off that 35 year old comment. I was going to get all "internet offended" on you and freak out. Also, 32-35 year olds = way more common sense than 20 somethings. aren't us older guys supposed to have better common sense than younger lads? Always, just like 20 somethings = way smarter than 18 year olds. Its the way the world works. Or to quote Adam Savage: "It was only became useful to the world after age 24 when I realise that I knew nothing." He then goes on to talk about how that keeps happening to him. he kind of stole that line from socrates, lol
Of course, but I try to keep it current for the younger kids who might not know who this "crates" guy is.
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i like to compare starcraft 2 to that of an 18 year old. fast cars, lots of chicks, alcohol, etc. then one day you take this girl out for a really crazy drive and you end up killing a deer along the road. then you go to jail and you spend some time there thinking about what you've done.
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On March 02 2013 02:44 Zealously wrote:
If you bring age into this argument as if age is actually significant, you're probably pretty stupid. But then again, this entire thread seems to be somewhat silly.
Thanks Zealously, nice to have some common sense injected into a blood stream of insanity.
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On March 02 2013 02:28 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:23 FiWiFaKi wrote:On March 02 2013 01:24 aike wrote:Starcraft 2: $6,865,805.70 in prize money over 696 tournaments. League of Legends: $4,186,941.01 in prize money over 80 tournaments, with $1,970,000.00 (47%!) of that from Riot's Season 2 finals. Pretty interesting... most of that league prize money is from Riot, while almost none of the SC2 money is from Blizzard. I'd say SC2 is pretty healthy, and not dying I actually added all the prize money in 2012 in both games, and LoL was about 500k~ up on Starcraft 2 in that year. Nobody is denying that Starcraft is easily a Top 3 esport in the world. The issue here is the decline, organizers such as IPL cannot any longer support the 100k prize pool, which shows stagnation or deflation in the scene. Either IPL predicted starcraft would get larger so the 100k was an investment, or 100k was sustainable before, but with a shrinking scene its not possible anymore. And I think a lot of organizers are in that boat. SC2:WoL has BY FAR the largest ratio of prize money to viewer numbers in the esport industry, and that is because of expected growth, however the larger that ratio is, the less room to grow there is. For example LoL is getting 5-20x more viewers than Starcraft tournaments, yet their prize pools are pretty similar - that just means SC2 is better structured, and the infrastructure is being set up for LoL. I think the age of Starcraft 2 we are in right now if you compare it to that of a person is about 35 years. Yeah, you're not dying, but things are becoming tougher, lots of the beauties of life have already happened, and you're having more trouble staying healthy, but you still have a ways to go. Because LoL is using the "freemium" model, they have incentive to spend great deals of money on tournaments, while realistically Blizzard doesn't benefit nearly as much. According to Liquipedia and a few other sources SC2 is actually up on LoL last year. While I don't doubt your maths ability, I trust Liquipedia on these matters above most other people. Also, I think that Riot bumping up LoL's prize pool artifcially (using their own money) isn't a good think, same with The International in Dota 2. However, that's a discussion for another topic ^^
I just added up all premier and major events in both SC2 wiki and LoL wiki. I suppose considering Team events aren't included in those, and LoL doesn't have any "team events" per say, that could overcome the 500k deficit, still pretty close either way. Riot is spending $5,000,000 on the 2013 season from the little research I did, which is impressive.
The 140k LoL viewers vs 8k WoL + 4k HotS viewers has to be considered too though when it comes to growth (who wants to become a pro gamer in a game that's at a steady decline?), and also the streaming revenue associated with that. $2-$3 per 1000 impressions, adblock included 60% impression rate means $1.2-$1.8 per user. Lets use numbers of 80k average viewers for LoL and 10k for SC2, and you have an average of $120 of revenue per commercial, using an average rate of 2 commercials per hour you get that League of Legends makes $240 an hour while SC2 makes $30 an hour.
That $210 per hour difference translates to about 1.8 million a year. Yes, during tournaments the numbers fluctuate, SC2 may gets something upwards to excess of 50k, but at the same time LoL gets 250k for it's tournaments too, again this is a rough approximation just to see the difference.
As to your second point: I'll keep it short and sweet, the way the international works, I don't think it's really good, it brings players in, but eh, just not effective at keeping them. Riot hosts not one tournament, but spreads them out, so in a way, they are the federation in their game that controls who's playing who etc, and that means no oversaturation and such.
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On March 02 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 02:26 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:54 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 01:48 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is. I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them. I'm also a bitter BW fan, you can add that to your list as well. And a white supremacist, that one never goes out of style. Did you know that all the hateful internet thugs who do nothing but criticize games are all nazis and mysoginist neckbeard basement dwellers? You should really expand your arsenal, Plansix, "children, trolls, or just uninformed" is so passe nowadays. I only used what I need to get the job done, not more, no less. And I don’t need to “expand my arsenal”, it is already diverse and robust. I do think you need to turn it down a few notches or cut back on the redbulls, because your going a little over the top.
I will take your good advice into consideration, my friend. I guess we'll see in a year or two who was right about SC2 "dying" - one thing that's certain is that exchanging snide forum posts isn't going to change the ultimate fate of the game one bit. With that, I bid you good night. Mayhaps we'll meet on better terms in TLS twich chat or some other hellhole.
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On March 01 2013 11:04 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 11:03 StarVe wrote:
Well he also said Red Bull had bought IPL and sent Kevin Knocke to the moon with AskJoshy commentating. Hey, could happen.
not possible. way too much of a payload to send to the moon with the technology currently available to mankind.
User was warned for this post
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