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On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it.
I never said anywhere that IPL was "definitely profitable". In fact, I said the opposite. Their long term goal over the entire 2013 season was slated to be "break even". That implies that I'm well aware that IPL is NOT currently a profitable venture for IGN, hence the cut when the parent corporation is essentially put up for auction.
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Why are people arguing that SC2's viewership numbers aren't decreasing? :s it's very obvious that they are, be it because people are bored of WoL / zergs / current meta or whatever, but it's pretty stupid denying that...
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On March 02 2013 01:26 Salazarz wrote:
Why are people arguing that SC2's viewership numbers aren't decreasing? :s it's very obvious that they are, be it because people are bored of WoL / zergs / current meta or whatever, but it's pretty stupid denying that...
On March 02 2013 01:20 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:13 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 01:09 Conti wrote:On March 02 2013 00:30 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:26 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 00:23 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:19 Plansix wrote:On March 02 2013 00:09 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 01 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote:On March 01 2013 23:37 AnomalySC2 wrote:
[quote]
Sorry, I just don't agree. I've grown up with Blizzard games, I know just how much higher quality the games that both BW and even TFT offered when compared to SC2. Imo Blizzard dropped the ball with SC2, and most recently D3. I still stand by my statement, if SC2 offered games that were as exciting or intense as most Professional BW games, then viewers would rise or at least stay consistent. Instead, we have had the scene slowly but surely shrinking over the past 3 years, and now IPL is simply not able to sustain itself any longer.
I also think Gom expanding their tournament selection to more than just SC2 is even more evidence, they're likely not able to sustain themselves with the small viewership either. This is even with a partnership with Blizzard, whom are still raking in plenty of cash off WoW I assume. Well I disagree and I think you are cherry picking your information in an effort to make your point. GOM has moved into a new studio and has always been open to running other games. No company that runs events is going to run one game, ever. They will always be looking to expand their market and get more viewer. The idea one company would run SC2 until the end of time and never get involved in another game is unreasonable and simply cannot be used as proof that SC2 is shrinking. GOM owns a studio and they are going to use the studio to show more things that SC2. As for Blizzard, they make mistakes, but their launch games are also not the games we remember. SC prime was not amazing in any way and was completely broken, with no replays, shit maps and terrible balance. D2 prime was not the game people remember and love today. It was the expansions that made those games great, as Blizzard refined the games down to the experience we remember today. Your entitled to your opinion but you have little evidence to back it up beyond a few leaps of logic like GOM showing more than just SC2 and personal feelings. If you are going to express that opinion, that is fine, but don’t expect the people who strongly disagree to ignore it. There is a growing group of TL members that are extremely tired of the negativity in the community and are expressing that opinion as well. I am one of them and I see the same people expressing their frustration with the negativity. Indeed, it is just leaps in logic upon my part, and I absolutely don't expect everyone to view it the same way I do. However, I also would like to know your opinion on exactly why there has been so much negativity surrounding SC2 lately? That doesn't just happen for no reason at all, some people are just starting to see all the cracks, imo. Ok, last one and then I must do work. The negativity is coming from… the internet. People are negative on the internet because they are. Look at the launch of new Sim City, people are whining about how the game is being dumbed down and is bad. Look at the new Devil May Cry, more whining. But if you read up on those games, they got great reviews or have great feedback from people playing it, but still people bitch and whine. People claiming that the gaming is dying, that Apple slipping because they had less profitable quarter. Netflix is going under, TV is going to go away forever. Bookstores are going to disappear. Everyone thinks the sky is falling on the internet. Its world wide, anyone can find 15 people to agree with them on the internet and post a lot about something. But that doesn’t make it true. So that's it then, the internet is to blame? People are just inherently negative, and that's all there is to it? Grasping at straws are we? It is a perfect counter argument to “People are negative about SC2, so there must be a reason they are like that. And that reason is the game is bad and it is dying.” Once again, your proof for SC2 is dying is that people are negative about it on internet forums and the twitch numbers are sometimes lower than LoL. Uhh no, Twitch numbers have been sinking steadily for SC2. That's my point. And saying they're "sometimes" lower than LoL is a pretty big stretch, try something along the lines of, sometimes during major finals SC2 gets close to LoL's average viewer numbers. For instance, LoL is at 116k viewers right now, and WoL is at 5.8k. HoTS is at 3.4k, figured I should mention that before someone goes crazy on me  Please post some actual long-term numbers or politely shut the frick up and stop saying how twitch.tv numbers are going steadily downhill. You don't know what you are talking about. Yes, LoL has more viewers than SC2. No, that's not new. It's been like that for more than a year. Way to just completely disregard proof right in front of your face and then tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is getting silly and ugly just like the last IPL thread. I'll humbly back out now, and lets just wait and see what happens just like last time. You know, the amusing thing is that I have the actual numbers from twitch.tv. Not just from right now, but going up for over a year. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that SC2 numbers have not, in fact, gone "steadily downhill". In fact, they have been pretty stable over the last 6 months.
We're arguing that because we have facts and evidence.
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200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
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On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out 
Yeah, his point is really good. Except I am a paralegal that works for a law firm and I have nothing to do with IPL or Blizzard beyond owning and loving SC2. But good argument, that people who disagree with you must be paid to do so, because that is the only way they have a different point of view. Of course, we would never based our information on facts, that would be to easy.
And he confused the word “drone” with “grown up”. But other than that, he was mostly correct….ok, not at all.
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On March 02 2013 01:29 FXOdesRow wrote:
200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
Well it hasn't actually been cancelled yet, this is all rumours and people stating things without IPL actually announcing anything. It would be monumentally stupid of IPL to not tell their players as soon as they make the decision, so I wouldn't lose hope if I were you.
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It's not that SCII is going downhill, it's that the company running IPL6 is disorganized. Shame on them for not letting people know there was a possibility of cancellation ahead of time.
On March 02 2013 01:29 FXOdesRow wrote:
200$ down the drain to change my plane ticket from MLG dallas to IPL6 (booked early didn't think there would't be any open bracket) and now this... WTF =(
 I am really sorry, that sucks man. I wish you could be compensated.
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Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
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On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote:
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you?
This post is wrong in so many ways.
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there is one upside to this though:
I've been meaning to clean up my twitter account by getting rid of some followings (is that the right word?). anyway, this is a good start.
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isnt ipl6 a huge lol event too? and shootmania, and 2 fighting games. sc2 is dying is no more than bland troling.
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This thread is kind of a nightmare to read to be honest. I wish teenagers would stop pretending they know business
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On March 02 2013 01:39 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote:
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you? This post is wrong in so many ways.
Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
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On March 02 2013 01:42 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:39 kollin wrote:On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote:
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you? This post is wrong in so many ways. Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
Sometimes the points are so dumb, it is all you can say without causing self-inflicted brain damage.
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On March 02 2013 01:42 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:39 kollin wrote:On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote:
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you? This post is wrong in so many ways. Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him.
OK, want me to go through each part and show why it is wrong? I do agree with the first part actually, I don't think it was as big as a bubble as he makes it out to be, but there was definitely oversaturation. The second part is just wrong. The blog I made wasn't about how mature I think I am. I'm not going to summarise it, you can read it yourself but it was in no way what he claimed it to be. I haven't attacked anyone else, at all. Not even in the slightest. I'll admit that sometimes I can be aggressive in my tone, and that's something I do need to work on, but I have not attacked one person in this thread.
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On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out
I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
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On March 02 2013 01:48 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:22 AnomalySC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 01:15 Toadvine wrote:On March 02 2013 01:02 VirgilSC2 wrote:On March 02 2013 00:54 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Your entire post is utter bs, especially the parts about all the teams that closed, only closed, because they were managed poorly (LOL). However, I'd like to hone in specifically on the underlined part. You mean to tell me you can honestly, with a straight face, tell me that teams like Eclypsia, mTw, SlayerS, Old Quantic, and apeX were managed well and took the best opportunities they could? You're either delusional or you actually believe everything you read on the internet in press releases. I'm not sure which is worse, especially because you're naive enough to think the only reasons teams would merge is due to financial problems. By saying skeptical posters, such as myself, are GOING to be the reason SC2 declines, implies that SC2 hasn't already declined. Which is purely false. The only tournament to see any growth in viewership is Dreamhack, the rest all have vastly lower viewer numbers according to Twitch.tv. No viewers, no money. No money, players/teams/tournaments start to go under. Most of the industry, unlike yourself, is able to realize that SC2 is currently in the lull of a mid-expansion switch, combined with the fact that it's the start of the year and the 2013 tournament circuit has yet to begin in full swing. Sitting here saying "SC2 is dead guys, nothing to see here, lets all go back to Call of Duty!" is going to be what actually permanently harms the scene. Right now, most of the playerbase is waiting for HotS Retail Release before the circuit kicks back into an upswing and to everyone that currently puts money into the growth of eSports it's pretty blatantly apparent. Funny thing is, if you go to the thread about IGN wanting to sell IPL, you'll see tons and tons of posts similar to this one, proclaiming with absolute confidence that the sceptics simply don't understand business and how the industry functions, IPL is definitely profitable and will find a buyer any day now, and everyone who disagrees is a dumb troll. Just keep on believing everything's fine bro, surely if you believe hard enough it will become true, right? Also, if I didn't know better, I'd suspect Plansix, with his "People on the internet just hate these games because they're haters. They got great reviews, so they must be great, right? Those damned entitled gamers!" argument of being some kind of viral marketer drone. Unfortunately though, I've been on the internet long enough to accept the sad truth that there will always be someone who genuinely believes this nonsense. In any case, I wish you good luck, my brothers. Even though I don't care much for the game anymore, it would be a shame for the scene to fall apart, so I hope things turn for the better somehow. I hope, but I don't really believe it. I'm just going to take this guy's post, whom had the balls to point out that clearly some of the people attacking me have ulterior motives (sup blizzard). Yup, I can't add much to this because he said everything better than I ever could, so instead I'll just say lets wait and see how it all turns out I don't really think they have ulterior motives, as nice as it would be to think so. I just think they really want to believe. That thing about viral marketing was just my way of indicating how delusional Plansix is.
I know rational thought is hard to understand for some folks, but facts are just that facts. People who run around claiming SC2 is dying are childish, trolls or just uninformed. You could be any one of the three, or all of them.
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On March 02 2013 01:46 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 01:42 Bonkarooni wrote:On March 02 2013 01:39 kollin wrote:On March 02 2013 01:36 iamho wrote:
Nobody is saying the SCII scene is dying, but its pretty clear that the scene was a huge bubble and is now contracting, hopefully to a sustainable level. This is pretty damn obvious, I don't know why people are even arguing about this. Also to the kollin guy, don't you think its a little hypocritical that you write a blog about mature you think are are for a 13 year old, then attack other people for disagreeing with you? This post is wrong in so many ways. Good argument Kollin. "this post is wrong" you showed him. OK, want me to go through each part and show why it is wrong? I do agree with the first part actually, I don't think it was as big as a bubble as he makes it out to be, but there was definitely oversaturation. The second part is just wrong. The blog I made wasn't about how mature I think I am. I'm not going to summarise it, you can read it yourself but it was in no way what he claimed it to be. I haven't attacked anyone else, at all. Not even in the slightest. I'll admit that sometimes I can be aggressive in my tone, and that's something I do need to work on, but I have not attacked one person in this thread.
So it was wrong in...one way?
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On March 02 2013 01:42 Al Bundy wrote:
This thread is kind of a nightmare to read to be honest. I wish teenagers would stop pretending they know business
Nightmare? It's as of now 4chan worthy, this along with the "IGN to simplying and focus" thread.
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On March 02 2013 01:08 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 00:54 refmac_cys.cys wrote:
You could at least be civil with your response. I'm not one to buy into the whole 'SC2 is dying zomg' thing either, but even you have to admit that, compared with the big events of 2011, 2012 (MLG Columbus, Dreamhack Winter 2011, etc., crowds, tournament viewership numbers, the whole nine yards have gotten smaller. That's not to say that the scene is dying out, but it is smaller than it used to be. Just compare viewership numbers between TSL 3 and TSL 4. Well but whats the reason some tournaments got less viewers? Is it because people stopped watching SC2 or is it because there is a lot more SC2 content these days which spreads out the viewers?
Because nobody is being introduced to the game, while people start to leave.
It's a fact that the Starcraft community is getting smaller, compare the Active viewer numbers on TL too for example, they used to be 15,000 consistently, now it ranges from 6000-10,000. It is not because viewers are being spread out, I promise you. It's a multitude of factors such as gameplay stagnating and damage from over saturation.
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EPT
