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TL recruiting SC2 writers - Page 13

Forum Index > Closed
290 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 Next All
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 01:51:54
January 10 2013 01:46 GMT
#241
Come on guys, can the paid position speech please. The people who are applying aren't gullible naive idiots who are being taken advantage of, they are well in a position to understand the nature of the situation and probably understand the English language quite well and are capable of reading the fine print due to them applying for WRITING POSITIONS and all. But if you honestly want to make a point about this, then let's just look at some facts shall we?

1. Brass tax
There are over 200 contributors to TL, and hundreds more if not thousands who are contributing to the community in some manner, putting in tens if not hundreds of hours every month. If we attempt to distinguish between what is quality content deserving of pay, where do you draw the line? Do we pay people every time they start and maintain an LR thread? Do we start paying people for writing articles and blogs? Do we pay people for contributing to the strategy forums? If we restrict the pay to people who occupy a specific role already, mods, writers, liquipedia editors, etc, how would payment be quantified? Do we start tracking a user's log in info on rigid time schedules and say "you were only X amount active on TL this month, 10% pay deduction for you"? Some very simple math would reveal that if they were paid on an hourly basis that TL would close down with in months having to pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars in accordance with minimum wage levels in respective countries (hundreds of contributors x hundreds of hours x single or double digit wage rates = ????).

2. What does this actually encourage?
So far it's been obvious that the reason why the quality of content is relatively high on TL is the passion for esports, do you HONESTLY want to replace that passion with a drive for financial gain? Have you seen the gaming journalism industry and what avarice has turned that into? The truth of the matter is financial gain is in reality usually incongruous with the quality of the service or product that is provided, it's all about marketing and bells and whistles. Do you want TL's threads to turn into gigantic advertising campaigns? We already have enough of those, many of us turn to TL for a respite from those commercial cesspools, not to see it turned into another one.

3. What does this actually mean for writers?
- Content would have to be checked and approved on a regular basis to ensure that it means "employment qualifications" or "work quotas" or "quality assurance", control is taken away from the community itself and put into the hands of editors and admins as regards to what content is put out on TL.
- Quantification of quality of an articles means inevitable conflicts of financial interest between different segments of the community, "Why should that strategy forum writer get paid more for putting out X when I have to put out Y for the general forums?", "Why should BW writers get paid the same as a SC2 writer when SC2 writers do more work due to the active community?", etc etc etc.
- Inevitably more restrictive rubrics limiting how a writer can construct his/her post, taking away from alot of the actual humour and interesting content that TL is known for.

4. The will of the individual and consent.
Let's not be ridiculous and suggest that writers are being "ripped off" when they could be doing their service for a premium. They are agreeing to terms after being made fully aware of how they should or shouldn't act or expect when they commit to something like this. In legal terms there is absolutely no problem with what TL is doing. TL's writers aren't people speaking a different language who are incapable of understanding the terms of their service rendered and its effects on the community, if you honestly think that take your trolling else where.

5. What's in it for the writer?
- Contributing to a site they are obviously passionate about for a subject that they are passionate about.
- A already popular avenue for them to voice their opinions on an existing medium that they don't have to go through the process of growing themselves.
- Community recognition and comradery.
- An opportunity and motivation to continue a constructive hobby.
- Experience
- Doing so under a relatively lax and friendly environment where they can see their work actually amounting to some value.

6. Hypocrisy?
Is it inherently hypocritical for TL, a site which operates on a for profit basis (regardless of the actual financial situation of the site, whether or not it is making a net profit on a monthly basis, among other information that we are not entitled to know) to ask for its writers to work with out pay?
There are two ways to look at this, the corporate angle, and the passion angle.
Under the corporate angle, all individuals and corporate entities are looking out to maximize personal short term financial gain while holding stakeholders interests as irrelevant, under this angle it isn't HYPOCRISY that TL is trying to get away with this action, it is in fact LEGITIMATE ABUSE of a demographic that they understand. For Profit companies (not to mention a shit tonne of supposedly not for profit organizations) do shit like this all the bloody time in the real world with in the legal constraints of local law. If TL.net was just a corporate entity making marketing decisions on this basis, they would trumpet a no pay position from the rooftops as the privilege of being a part of something great and bigger than they (the writers) are among other shameful emotional appeals. If you are truly a cynic you can obviously understand this.
Is this quote "unethical" unquote? I thought we already disregarded ethics when we are talking from a purely capitalist corporate angle, who's the hypocrite now?

Under the passion angle, it is obvious that it isn't hypocritical at all when the primary concern or gain of the writer and TL is to contribute to esports where financial gain is secondary or tertiary to the main goal.

7. Is financial gain a legitimate motivating force for better content?
Yes. But only if financial gain was directly proportional to the quality of the content, hence the problems listed above regarding how you quantify quality in a diverse community. It would also be inequitable to only apply this principle to one portion of the site, do you want to see the commercialization of everything on TL? I certainly don't.

There, argument over, can we please get back to people talking about writing?
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33592 Posts
January 10 2013 01:48 GMT
#242
On January 10 2013 10:36 NovemberstOrm wrote:
I can do a tournament recap of HyperX 10-Year Anniversary Tournament‎ right?(under major tournaments in liquipedia)
And for the tournament preview, I can do any tournament?
Just want to make sure


would be fine :o
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
biobug1
Profile Joined October 2011
Belgium5 Posts
January 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#243
is it necessary to have a lot of experience in writing to attend to this? As a student in university i have a lot of spare time ( except when having exams ) to do this, but my experience in writing is limited to writing papers and stuff for school.
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28100 Posts
January 10 2013 03:09 GMT
#244
On January 10 2013 10:52 biobug1 wrote:
is it necessary to have a lot of experience in writing to attend to this? As a student in university i have a lot of spare time ( except when having exams ) to do this, but my experience in writing is limited to writing papers and stuff for school.

Experience doesn't matter. If you have the necessary skills that is all that matters. Also, they don't have it in the requirements in the original post.
Administrator
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
January 10 2013 03:52 GMT
#245
The reward for this is recognition amongst the community and writing experience on a topic that intrests us all.
Good enough for me, as soon as my week of hell ends i am applying!
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
RainmanMP
Profile Joined October 2007
United States1698 Posts
January 10 2013 04:31 GMT
#246
Sent in my application! Not sure what to do for writing assignments though.
이영호 FIGHTING! Die Hard KT Rolster and Flash fan.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
January 10 2013 06:18 GMT
#247
I would absolutely love to do this during the summer when I wasn't bogged down by school. Any chance you're looking for a part time part timer
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 06:25:34
January 10 2013 06:24 GMT
#248
On January 10 2013 10:04 tofucake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 09:25 Zocat wrote:
Good luck to anyone participating!

On January 10 2013 06:13 Luftmensch wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
No, not everything is about money. Some of it is about intellectual property. Attribution and copyright to the writers who don't get paid for their work is the bare minimum that they should have. I'm avoiding the word "royalty" because it's "about money" but you know it should be there as well.
I have a funny scenario in my mind where Fionn once again writes an article with every prediction wrong and then decides to call on his copyrighted material and pulls his article from the website. That of course shouldn't be able to happen and the article shouldn't be able to be pulled from the website, but if you don't buy his article, he should nonetheless have copyright to use it outside of TL in any way he wants.


Why wouldnt he have the copyright to use it outside of TL? How do you come to this conclusion?

See part 6 here


Yeah, I read that. Especially the part where it's a non-exclusive (!) license. Also a license isnt copyright, you dont loose copyright if someone gets a license for your work.
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
January 10 2013 06:30 GMT
#249
Props to whoever gets chosen. Looking forward to some more quality write-ups. This'll be great.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5049 Posts
January 10 2013 06:33 GMT
#250
Good luck to everyone who tries out for the position!
can i get my estro logo back pls
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
January 10 2013 06:48 GMT
#251
When are these due by?
TheEmulator
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
28100 Posts
January 10 2013 06:50 GMT
#252
On January 10 2013 15:48 Swords wrote:
When are these due by?

says in the post that recruitment ends by January 31st. So you can send it any time before then.
Administrator
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
January 10 2013 07:02 GMT
#253
On January 10 2013 15:50 TheEmulator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 15:48 Swords wrote:
When are these due by?

says in the post that recruitment ends by January 31st. So you can send it any time before then.


Thanks, I should've read more closely. My 2:00 am attention span isn't too fantastic.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
January 10 2013 07:29 GMT
#254
Can we expect confirmation that our applications have been read before the end date, or will possible responses come after that point?
AdministratorBreak the chains
Trasko
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden983 Posts
January 10 2013 09:33 GMT
#255
On January 10 2013 16:29 Zealously wrote:
Can we expect confirmation that our applications have been read before the end date, or will possible responses come after that point?


This. Would love to know aswell
Jaedong <3
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
January 10 2013 13:21 GMT
#256
Are there any plans to recruit new writers for DOTA2?
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36393 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 17:17:32
January 10 2013 17:03 GMT
#257
On January 10 2013 22:21 SupLilSon wrote:
Are there any plans to recruit new writers for DOTA2?

You can PM Heyoka or Riptide about this.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Jarree
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland1004 Posts
January 10 2013 17:27 GMT
#258
Wow some people. This position isn't exploiting people, TL knowhow kind of was, but not this. If i had free time and enough interest in sc2 i could see myself writing these for free for sure. Gl to all applicants.
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
January 10 2013 18:04 GMT
#259
I would never have time to write for free (or paid even, silly school), but I wish everybody who applies the best of luck!
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
Miserie
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium92 Posts
January 10 2013 18:24 GMT
#260
Screw the fact that I have my exams, I applied! ^^
Work work work.
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