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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9313

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 23 2017 18:13 GMT
#186241
On November 24 2017 03:04 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 02:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Said it before, if you want political change, you either vote, or you stage a revolution and roll the dice with the aftermath.

The whole cut off the nose to spite the face approach just leads to a whole lot of nothing.

If you want political change you need to work hard all year round to slowly gather a movement around your goals. Voting only comes in halfway through. Then you need to actually work for years to enact the changes.

I was speaking mostly on part of an average citizen, not as a politician. Sure, you could go all-in and join the political rat race yourself, but that can't apply to 350 million people.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
November 23 2017 18:18 GMT
#186242
On November 24 2017 03:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 03:04 a_flayer wrote:
On November 24 2017 02:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Said it before, if you want political change, you either vote, or you stage a revolution and roll the dice with the aftermath.

The whole cut off the nose to spite the face approach just leads to a whole lot of nothing.

If you want political change you need to work hard all year round to slowly gather a movement around your goals. Voting only comes in halfway through. Then you need to actually work for years to enact the changes.

I was speaking mostly on part of an average citizen, not as a politician. Sure, you could go all-in and join the political rat race yourself, but that can't apply to 350 million people.

Well, replace "gather a movement around your goals" with "support a movement that shares your goals" and "work for years to enact the changes" with "support the people enacting the changes".

You can't expect a politician to brush aside the millions of cynical cunts all on their own, after all.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 23 2017 18:55 GMT
#186243
On November 24 2017 03:18 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 03:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On November 24 2017 03:04 a_flayer wrote:
On November 24 2017 02:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Said it before, if you want political change, you either vote, or you stage a revolution and roll the dice with the aftermath.

The whole cut off the nose to spite the face approach just leads to a whole lot of nothing.

If you want political change you need to work hard all year round to slowly gather a movement around your goals. Voting only comes in halfway through. Then you need to actually work for years to enact the changes.

I was speaking mostly on part of an average citizen, not as a politician. Sure, you could go all-in and join the political rat race yourself, but that can't apply to 350 million people.

Well, replace "gather a movement around your goals" with "support a movement that shares your goals" and "work for years to enact the changes" with "support the people enacting the changes".

You can't expect a politician to brush aside the millions of cynical cunts all on their own, after all.

Well, yes, but really supporting a movement means voting (alongside millions of other people) those people into power, and supporting them when they make changes means voting them in again 4 years later.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 23 2017 20:10 GMT
#186244
On November 24 2017 02:21 Nevuk wrote:


Nope, Trump's Don King tweet was 100% innocent. This guy, after all, is a liberal using the word racism.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-23 20:19:04
November 23 2017 20:18 GMT
#186245


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7291 Posts
November 23 2017 20:20 GMT
#186246
"You know, in a fight, like I watch in the movies,"

this manchild is in charge of our military.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
November 23 2017 20:39 GMT
#186247
I think Trump might just think the military finally adapted Invisibility Cloak technology from the wizarding world.

(who am I kidding, that man hasn't read a chapter book in more than two decades)
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
November 23 2017 21:19 GMT
#186248
Word on the street is that Flynn's lawyers have cut off their cooperation with Trump's lawyers.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
November 23 2017 21:22 GMT
#186249
I think the only thing that exceeds Trump's ignorance is his ego. He's a confident idiot, which is super fucking dangerous when millions of people will take his word as gospel.

Porouscloud - NA LoL
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
November 23 2017 21:42 GMT
#186250
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-23 21:44:23
November 23 2017 21:44 GMT
#186251
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
November 23 2017 21:48 GMT
#186252
On November 24 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?

Well, you're saying that power will corrupt, but what if you destroy existing power centers? Then things should be much better for awhile until the rot sets in again.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-23 21:53:56
November 23 2017 21:52 GMT
#186253
On November 24 2017 06:48 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?

Well, you're saying that power will corrupt, but what if you destroy existing power centers? Then things should be much better for awhile until the rot sets in again.

unless the rot infests the new system from the ground up, which it's perfectly capable of doing, and has happened many times in the past. there's little reason to believe hte new system would be clean, rather than being just as corrupt as the old one. And destroying existing power centers can cause an awful lot of damage if done improperly and imprudently, as my venezuela example demonstrates; and there's ample evidence to show that the stuff gh is pushing for is not based heavily on thoughtful prudence.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
November 23 2017 22:05 GMT
#186254
Happy Thanksgiving!
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
doomdonker
Profile Joined October 2017
90 Posts
November 23 2017 22:18 GMT
#186255


Guess this might explain why Trump's been off the handle going after D-tier celebrity LaVar Ball.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 23 2017 22:20 GMT
#186256
On November 24 2017 06:48 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?

Well, you're saying that power will corrupt, but what if you destroy existing power centers? Then things should be much better for awhile until the rot sets in again.

"Existing power centres" exists far beyond politics.

Revolutions are lead by people, and the kind of people that lead revolutions are usually the kind of people that you don't want leading a country. With some exceptions.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 23 2017 22:28 GMT
#186257
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
November 23 2017 22:36 GMT
#186258
On November 24 2017 07:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 06:48 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?

Well, you're saying that power will corrupt, but what if you destroy existing power centers? Then things should be much better for awhile until the rot sets in again.

"Existing power centres" exists far beyond politics.

Revolutions are lead by people, and the kind of people that lead revolutions are usually the kind of people that you don't want leading a country. With some exceptions.

But as far as I know people don't want a revolution, they just want a third party movement to take over the Democratic party and enact far-reaching reforms to structurally address inequality and the power of capital. I think leftwing movements in the USA have a lot of respect for grass-roots organizing and having democratic accountability and so on. If Sanders had become president he wouldn't have instituted himself as dictator for life. Whenever Sanders voters talk about revolution they are clearly not talking about a violent uprising, just about organizing with the goal to radically shift policy.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-23 22:52:08
November 23 2017 22:42 GMT
#186259
On November 24 2017 07:28 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/933508615775883264

Considering the timing, I can only assume that they were referencing the Steele dossier. Either that, or the US intelligence agencies found information of their own accord that Trump was compromised.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 23 2017 23:02 GMT
#186260
On November 24 2017 07:36 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2017 07:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:48 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:44 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 06:42 Grumbels wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:39 zlefin wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:19 Plansix wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:16 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 24 2017 01:15 Plansix wrote:
No shit GH. All the parties should be better. Third parties should stop trying to shoot the moon and do nothing else. The democrats should do better and learn from mistakes. But guess what? It will take years or decades. It took decades to legalize gay marriage. Took decades to make abortions legal. So strap in for years of hard work and stop calling everyone stupid for realizing it's gunna take a while.


I'm criticizing them for being on the wrong side of that struggle, not for recognizing there will be many fights.

Considering the the third parties in the county are just as big of failures as the democrats, I'm not convinced it was a clear choice.


There's a clear choice. The Democrats are shit and refusing to admit it. Either you support their ignorance because you've convinced yourself you have no other choice or you call them out.

To put some context on it; I think you're moving at a reasonable rate, others, not so much.

or your side is shit and you refuse to admit it. there's been plenty of evidence to prove that point just as well.
mostly you're just a revolutionary ideologue.
here's the thing: you want some mystical 3rd party and think everything will be better after the revolution.
whereas in reality-land: a new 3rd party will have the same issues as the old ones; the problems are not with the parties themselves, but iwth the nature of power. I see no reason to believe this new party of yours will be magically free of corruption, or indeed any significantly different in the amount of it. If there's a new party, that party will also be affected by corporate influence, because power influencing power is how things work. Or, they'll go down the crazy route like maduro in venezuela, which is obviously far FAR worse than being affected by corporate influence.

PS agree with p6 that you're really bad at getting people to your side, and a terrible advocate. You might even be worse at convincing people than me, which would be shocking considering how terrible I am at that.

The national government has the potential to break up existing power centers, e.g. nationalizing health care, pursuing anti-trust legislation, institutionalizing labor unions, by seizing money in tax shelters, higher taxes

i'm aware of that, it doesn't change my point at all. so i'm not sure what you're quoting me for. what are you trying to say?

Well, you're saying that power will corrupt, but what if you destroy existing power centers? Then things should be much better for awhile until the rot sets in again.

"Existing power centres" exists far beyond politics.

Revolutions are lead by people, and the kind of people that lead revolutions are usually the kind of people that you don't want leading a country. With some exceptions.

But as far as I know people don't want a revolution, they just want a third party movement to take over the Democratic party and enact far-reaching reforms to structurally address inequality and the power of capital. I think leftwing movements in the USA have a lot of respect for grass-roots organizing and having democratic accountability and so on. If Sanders had become president he wouldn't have instituted himself as dictator for life. Whenever Sanders voters talk about revolution they are clearly not talking about a violent uprising, just about organizing with the goal to radically shift policy.

Okay, well, confused when you said "destroy existing power centers" then, because a 3rd party is still working within the existing framework. Which still means lobbying and pitches, still means year long hundred-billion dollar campaigns, and ultimately still working with representatives of 50 states to come to a consensus.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
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