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On November 22 2017 19:58 doomdonker wrote:
Trump's going after trash tier basketball personality LaVar Ball yet again, perhaps to get the heat off the fact that he's supporting someone everyone in Alabama knows is a loving creep.
Unless America's morality declines to the point that electing/supporting creepy men who chase after teenage girls is deemed acceptable provided you're from the correct political party, I don't see any of this really benefiting Trump in the long run.
American morality hasn't imo.
But you can certainly argue that Republican morality has. Its the extreme consequence of decades of feeding the 'us vs them' war. Everything becomes acceptable to beat 'them'. Be it aid from your own enemies (Russia), or supporting likely child molesters (Moore).
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On November 22 2017 15:33 Schmobutzen wrote:
Yeah. KwarK and P6 are way over the line.
Sexual arousal in itself clouds and alters our state of mind. Given that their line of thinking that an alcohol induced brain inhibits the judgement of a person in such a stark way that it makes the pure will weak or gone, which I partially agree to, than the simple altered state of sexual arousal, from soft to unhinged, should make consent in those kind of situations impossible.
To be clear, I was talking about consent in the legal sense. I don't care if two knowing adults get drunk and have sex. But the discussion revolved around if consent was a concern when either party was drunk. There is no getting around the fact that they are sleeping with someone with diminished judgement and decisions making skills. Which is why I repeatedly said "forget all this discussion about the number of drinks, the other party's thoughts are more important."
But I can see some folks have decided that people have taken it to "P6 says all sex while drunk is rape" because that is less complicated and doesn't involve talking to a girl.
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On November 22 2017 19:46 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I'm pretty sure the numbers flip at least a tad if the parties involved do so as well.
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On November 22 2017 20:29 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 17:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:On November 22 2017 15:54 KwarK wrote:On November 22 2017 13:32 Myrddraal wrote:On November 22 2017 11:14 KwarK wrote:On November 22 2017 10:41 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 22 2017 09:28 a_flayer wrote:On November 22 2017 09:27 KwarK wrote:On November 22 2017 09:19 Liquid`Drone wrote:
[quote]
One guy went to the club with his buddies. One girl went to the club with her girl friends. They both started pre-gaming at a friends place at 7 pm, then they went to the club around 10. Then they spent a couple hours dancing with strangers, at some point they started looking at each other, started flirting, talked a little bit. At 2 AM, they've both been drinking for 7 hours, people are starting to leave the club, they drunken-stumbly meet up near the entrance and just start making the fuck out. It's really hot and passionate. Guy says I live 5 minutes away wanna come? Girl says 'fuck yes'. They keep making out and grabbing each other while going back to his place. Both of them totally want the other and they end up having sex. The guy mentioned not having a condom, and the girl just went 'I don't fucking care'.
Girl wakes up the day after and thinks damn, that was kinda stupid. If there was a rick and morty universe where they decided to define this as 'both of them raping each other', I'd think the show jumped the shark. Each of them decided to fuck a stranger who had been drinking for 7 hours. They're both shit. And you're really just an incredibly judgmental prude trying to impose your own values on others by calling it a mutual rape. Nah, Kwark isn't a prude. He does weird shit then tells others that they're the immoral ones. I do shit with consent and tell people who don't do shit with consent that they're the immoral ones. And I don't apologize for it. Well I think you're a shit and immoral person for saying that people are shit for having sex with each other after only knowing each other for 7 hours (of course I agree that it's probably a bad idea and has all sorts of risks), and you should apologise for implying that Drone raped someone who was literally asking for sex. You need to read it again. They didn't know each other for 7 hours. They literally just met. The 7 hours was how much drinking they did before they met. They've never seen in each in a non trashed context, their sober selves are total strangers. And, who cares that they didn't know each other before? Its just sex, its not like they are getting married, adopt a child and buy a flat together while drunk. This discussion doesn't seem to be about consent, it seems to be about (american/anglosaxon) prudery vs "others".
The drunk argument is hilarious. It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I would get raped by a prostitute i paid. Basically this. My experience of anglo saxon countries is that the prevalent idea is that sex in something that happens somewhere on the road of the highly codified and ritualized dating process, or you are a shit person. Which is totally terrifying to a frenchman: we don’t even have a word for date in french ( let alone the need for that totally boring and unimaginative way of approaching someone.) The fact that Kwak is horrified at the idea that one might want spending the night with a stranger or that some love story might start in a chaotic, drunken way is highly comical to me. Hell, one of my best friends met a guy at 3am in a bailar in Rio, they ended up spending the night together, and they are nowmarried. According to Kwark, the guy is a rapist and they are both shit people. It’s a pity this puritan heritage makes many people so horribly judgmental and narrow minded. Since you are now talking about "the dating process" etc... I am almost certain that Kwark has absolutely no problem with people who have just met having sex, as long as they are both consenting adults. The problem in question is not the time that they know each other, but the consent.
I think Kwark established that two people drinking and then having sex not knowing each other were shit people.
I might have misunderstood but it seems to me that he consider that drunk consent is not real consent, which is making every drunk sex not consensual unless i really miss something.
Plansix: the thing is that it’s hugely situational and you can’t make a rule out of it. Maybe a girl perfectly sober just lost a relative and throws herself at you in despair, and you would be an asshlle to sleep with her. Maybe a girl you don’t know is dead drunk at the end of a party, so are you, you have messy drunken sex and that’s the behinning of a crazy love story.
Consent is a subtle stuff that starts with respect, not rigid rules unless we want people to sign a contract made by a lawyer before touching each other (we are getting there). That’s why it’s so damn hard to legiferate.
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Legally speaking, at least in Germany, I don't know of a law that makes it rape if the person under alcohol gives consent, or is not able to, when under the influence of.
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On November 22 2017 21:26 Schmobutzen wrote:
Legally speaking, at least in Germany, I don't know of a law that makes it rape if the person under alcohol gives consent, or is not able to, when under the influence of.
There is a point of drunkness where you simply can’t give your consent. And that’s before passing out. That’s another layer of the problem. There is tipsy, quite drunk, very drunk and dead drunk. In none of this state you take the same decisions than when you are sober. Yet it’s definitly not ok to get your way with a dead drunk girl when you are clear, and one would have to be bat shit nuts to consider that a tipsy girl can’t accept to spend the night with you without making you a rapist.
Nuance, guys, nuance.
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On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat.
I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations.
And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14.
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It was in France, you probably were fine  .
Main issue with this discussion is that the word rape is just thrown around, calling people that have one night stands when drunk morally reprehensible also doesn't help to get the point across.
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On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14.
I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk. One is of course reasonable and it’s up to a judge to figure out if it was the case or not. The other one criminalizes everyone.
If you know any law that criminalize virtually everyone but that’s totally fine because it’s not reported when it’s ok, let me know. The law describes what you can and can not do. Period.
If according to the law, you were abusing that girl on your first time, she can decide she wants to report you and the law will consider you a criminal. That’s up to her, for something like 20 years.
Now i would argue that in that case the law is fucked up and probably needs to be changed and nuanced since it’s a pretty normal occurence.
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On November 22 2017 22:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14. I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk. One is of course reasonable and it’s up to a judge to figure out if it was the case or not. The other one criminalizes everyone. If you know any law that criminalize virtually everyone but that’s totally fine because it’s not reported when it’s ok, let me know. The law describes what you can and can not do. Period.
off only the top of my head?
jaywalking
speeding
changing lanes at an intersection
not stopping at a red light before turning right.
expired car inspections(i’m sure this varies by state, but in NY everyone’s guilty once or twice)
now that i’ve gone this way there are actually a ton of driving laws people break on the daily so maybe that’s not a good avenue to go down.
littering(idk about ‘ok’ though)
public intoxication
over serving(though this applies only to servers, so not exactly ‘everyone’)
illegal music downloading
illegal movie downloading
basically all copyright laws
not reporting your $1 bank interest to the IRS
lemonade stands
On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too.
i always knew you were a monster.
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On November 22 2017 21:16 Artisreal wrote:I'm pretty sure the numbers flip at least a tad if the parties involved do so as well.
I'm confused as to what exactly you want to flip here. The question is straight forward, and equal, for both parties. This has been proven by democrats immediately throwing their own accused candidates under the bus while republicans still endorse them after multiple allegations with detailed stories backed by witnesses, who's a known culprit to the police, and banned from a frikkin mall.
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On November 22 2017 22:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14. I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk.
The debate occurs because people aren't quite sure at what point the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Some people think they have to be near blackout drunk (or literally blackout drunk), some people think they have to take one drink. Most people are in the middle, including KwarK and you. If I read the two of you's posts without all of the emotion, I think your disagreement on the facts and the law is quite minor, and your approach is basically the same.
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I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too.
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On November 22 2017 22:33 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14. I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk. One is of course reasonable and it’s up to a judge to figure out if it was the case or not. The other one criminalizes everyone. If you know any law that criminalize virtually everyone but that’s totally fine because it’s not reported when it’s ok, let me know. The law describes what you can and can not do. Period. off only the top of my head? jaywalking speeding changing lanes at an intersection not stopping at a red light before turning right. expired car inspections(i’m sure this varies by state, but in NY everyone’s guilty once or twice) now that i’ve gone this way there are actually a ton of driving laws people break on the daily so maybe that’s not a good avenue to go down. littering(idk about ‘ok’ though) public intoxication over serving(though this applies only to servers, so not exactly ‘everyone’) illegal music downloading illegal movie downloading basically all copyright laws not reporting your $1 bank interest to the IRS Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too. i always knew you were a monster.
Not being caught doing illegal things does not mean they're not enforceable. You can get caught doing all of that stuff if you're unlucky enough. No one has ever been caught and jailed for "raping each other" because, legally, that's not a thing. You can't have two adults simultaneously consenting and not consenting to having sex. This is not how the law works.
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On November 22 2017 22:45 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 21:16 Artisreal wrote:I'm pretty sure the numbers flip at least a tad if the parties involved do so as well. I'm confused as to what exactly you want to flip here. The question is straight forward, and equal, for both parties. This has been proven by democrats immediately throwing their own accused candidates under the bus while republicans still endorse them after multiple allegations with detailed stories backed by witnesses, who's a known culprit to the police, and banned from a frikkin mall.
When that question is asked to someone today they will have Moore in the back of their mind when answering. That subconsciously influences the result.
If you asked the same question at a time where no sex scandal was going on I think you would find the number much lower for Republicans.
You see the same when you look at popularity polls of the NBA before and after the kneeling or Republicans opinions on Russia before and after the elections.
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On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too.
Lets hope You have good relations with Your neighboors, 90% of the time its neighboors that report such things to authority.
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On November 22 2017 22:52 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:33 brian wrote:On November 22 2017 22:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14. I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk. One is of course reasonable and it’s up to a judge to figure out if it was the case or not. The other one criminalizes everyone. If you know any law that criminalize virtually everyone but that’s totally fine because it’s not reported when it’s ok, let me know. The law describes what you can and can not do. Period. off only the top of my head? jaywalking speeding changing lanes at an intersection not stopping at a red light before turning right. expired car inspections(i’m sure this varies by state, but in NY everyone’s guilty once or twice) now that i’ve gone this way there are actually a ton of driving laws people break on the daily so maybe that’s not a good avenue to go down. littering(idk about ‘ok’ though) public intoxication over serving(though this applies only to servers, so not exactly ‘everyone’) illegal music downloading illegal movie downloading basically all copyright laws not reporting your $1 bank interest to the IRS On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too. i always knew you were a monster. Not being caught doing illegal things does not mean they're not enforceable. You can get caught doing all of that stuff if you're unlucky enough. No one has ever been caught and jailed for "raping each other" because, legally, that's not a thing. You can't have two adults simultaneously consenting and not consenting to having sex. This is not how the law works.
sorry, that’s not how i had understood the post(could easily be my mistake.) if instead you’d like me to start listing unenforceable laws, that would be even easier. you’d be surprised how many laws regarding consensual sex there are.
i’ve never felt like more of a republican than i do right now. DOWN WITH BIG GOVERNMENT.
and a personal anecdote, to your point, i got a $200 red light ticket for turning right without stopping i was fucking furious. but i guess i should’ve stopped. lesson wasn’t learned either, i’m just more cautious about cameras.
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On November 22 2017 22:54 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too. Lets hope You have good relations with Your neighboors, 90% of the time its neighboors that report such things to authority.
Three of them are cool, one of them is a creeper that drives slowly down the road while high school girls are waiting for the bus. But he is scared of my wife, so I’m not worried. Suburbia is weird.
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On November 22 2017 22:52 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2017 22:33 brian wrote:On November 22 2017 22:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On November 22 2017 19:05 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 22 2017 18:34 TheYango wrote:On November 22 2017 16:59 Velr wrote:
The drunk argument is hilarious.
It is actually legal for me to buy Sex while i'm pretty fucking drunk and so it is in many countries, but at least now i know that I then technically would be raped by the prostitute I just paid. A lot of legal definitions for things sound ridiculous if you assume 100% enforcement. But these are situations that don't matter because you never achieve 100% enforcement, and if nobody reports it, the event effectively never happened in the eyes of the law. This is why Drone's drunk wife hypothetical was pointless to begin with. It's not functionally meaningful to apply a legal standard to a scenario that would never be reported. The only functionally useful way to apply the legal definition of consent is in cases where an abuse is being reported. Constructing hypotheticals like this "raped by a prostitute" scenario where realistically nobody is going to the police after the fact is useless. That’s really, really, really not how the law works. You don’t criminalize everything assuming that only the bad stuff will get reported. That’s bat shit crazy. It’s like saying « let’s make sex illegal because sometimes sex is rape and consensual sex will never get reported so it doesn’t exist in the eye of the law ». The law is supposed to define what is legal and what is not in a rigorous way. If you make drunk sex illegal, drunk sex is illegal, period. Whether it’s with your wife or with a stranger. I have to say this conversation in general sheds a very, very dark light on the me too and consent campaigns, that until now had all my support. If the purpose of the whole thing is to enforce anglo-saxon puritan morals into the law, I’m out of the boat. I don't know that you have demonstrated that the law doesn't work like this. The law defines some situations where the people are unable to give consent, and then when those situations occur, it's rape. It's not that dissimilar from saying "let's make sex illegal in those situations", and presumably the reason why you would make sex illegal in those situations is not very dissimilar from "sometimes sex is rape" in those situations. And yes it does help that situations that aren't a problem won't be reported. I'm 75% sure the first time I had sex was illegal. It was in France, I was 16 and she was 14. I’m quite sure the law would say that sex is illegal if the person is too intoxicated to give consent. Not that it’s a rape is the person is drunk. One is of course reasonable and it’s up to a judge to figure out if it was the case or not. The other one criminalizes everyone. If you know any law that criminalize virtually everyone but that’s totally fine because it’s not reported when it’s ok, let me know. The law describes what you can and can not do. Period. off only the top of my head? jaywalking speeding changing lanes at an intersection not stopping at a red light before turning right. expired car inspections(i’m sure this varies by state, but in NY everyone’s guilty once or twice) now that i’ve gone this way there are actually a ton of driving laws people break on the daily so maybe that’s not a good avenue to go down. littering(idk about ‘ok’ though) public intoxication over serving(though this applies only to servers, so not exactly ‘everyone’) illegal music downloading illegal movie downloading basically all copyright laws not reporting your $1 bank interest to the IRS On November 22 2017 22:46 Plansix wrote:
I totally built a shed on my property that violates local zoning laws. And it doesn’t have a permit too. i always knew you were a monster. Not being caught doing illegal things does not mean they're not enforceable. You can get caught doing all of that stuff if you're unlucky enough. No one has ever been caught and jailed for "raping each other" because, legally, that's not a thing. You can't have two adults simultaneously consenting and not consenting to having sex. This is not how the law works.
Statutory rape.
Person gives consent, still considered rape.
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EPT
