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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
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United States43964 Posts
On November 10 2017 04:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 04:53 Nevuk wrote:On November 10 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 04:40 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 04:34 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 04:30 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 04:26 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 04:15 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 03:18 Velr wrote:
So the federal goverment giving out contracts to private entities is somehow worse than private to private exchanges.
Might I ask why and why it is a good reason to strip 700'000 people from voting? I didn't say it was. I said that it is hard to feel sorry for the residents of DC when they so obviously benefit from the economic realities of having trillions of tax dollars pass through Capitol Hill every year. I really don't care whether the citizens of DC get federal representation. You can't really debate this - turn back now. The problem is that there is almost no one to debate. As demonstrated by Igne's posts, almost no one here has any fucking idea what they're talking about. I think it doesn't really matter whether you're right. Even if DC is a paradise in which they swim Scrooge Mcduck-style through pools of tax dollars, I don't see any argument why they should subsequently be denied the vote. You professing to not care just shows that there's no point even discussing it with you. Like everything else, outrage is a scarce resource. There are only so many issues one can be outraged about. Whether 700,000 DC residents get federal representation is so minor of an issue that it is almost irrelevant in the big scheme of things, particularly in light of the facts that 1) they receive huge economic benefits by virtue of being in DC, and 2) they're free to move. So yeah, I really don't care one way or the other. But even presuming that I did, who exactly would I have the debate with? Which poster (other than Igne) demonstrated an even rudimentary understanding of the relevant issues? What are the relevant issues? Because the only issue to me appears to be that 700,000 people - which is 1% of the black vote in the whole country - do not get represented federally. Regardless of whether it's minor or not, would you not agree that is wrong? First, the racial component is irrelevant, so I have no idea why you're bringing it up unless you think that white people have less of a right to representation. Second, and given the unique space that DC occupies, I'm not prepared to say that the federal disenfranchisement of persons in DC is categorically "wrong." And to the extent that it is, we're talking only talking a "wrong" in the sense of being a 1 on a scale of 10. Hm, so the US had no reason to rebel against Britain? Good luck making the argument that DC is suffering the same list of grievances that the colonists were as set forth in the Declaration of Independence.
Wasn't one of them something along the lines of "no taxation without representation"? That sounds a lot like the DC issue.
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On November 10 2017 04:50 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 04:40 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 04:34 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 04:30 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 04:26 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 04:15 kollin wrote:On November 10 2017 03:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 03:18 Velr wrote:
So the federal goverment giving out contracts to private entities is somehow worse than private to private exchanges.
Might I ask why and why it is a good reason to strip 700'000 people from voting? I didn't say it was. I said that it is hard to feel sorry for the residents of DC when they so obviously benefit from the economic realities of having trillions of tax dollars pass through Capitol Hill every year. I really don't care whether the citizens of DC get federal representation. You can't really debate this - turn back now. The problem is that there is almost no one to debate. As demonstrated by Igne's posts, almost no one here has any fucking idea what they're talking about. I think it doesn't really matter whether you're right. Even if DC is a paradise in which they swim Scrooge Mcduck-style through pools of tax dollars, I don't see any argument why they should subsequently be denied the vote. You professing to not care just shows that there's no point even discussing it with you. Like everything else, outrage is a scarce resource. There are only so many issues one can be outraged about. Whether 700,000 DC residents get federal representation is so minor of an issue that it is almost irrelevant in the big scheme of things, particularly in light of the facts that 1) they receive huge economic benefits by virtue of being in DC, and 2) they're free to move. So yeah, I really don't care one way or the other. But even presuming that I did, who exactly would I have the debate with? Which poster (other than Igne) demonstrated an even rudimentary understanding of the relevant issues? What are the relevant issues? Because the only issue to me appears to be that 700,000 people - which is 1% of the black vote in the whole country - do not get represented federally. Regardless of whether it's minor or not, would you not agree that is wrong? First, the racial component is irrelevant, so I have no idea why you're bringing it up unless you think that white people have less of a right to representation. Second, and given the unique space that DC occupies, I'm not prepared to say that the federal disenfranchisement of persons in DC is categorically "wrong." And to the extent that it is, we're talking only talking a "wrong" in the sense of being a 1 on a scale of 10.
The racial component is somewhat relevant.
DC would vote Democrat and the Republicans don't want more Democrats in congress.
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On November 10 2017 04:56 IgnE wrote:
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
This post should be stickied as a permanent reference.
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On November 10 2017 04:56 IgnE wrote:
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
Not enough Greek etymological references, not convinced yet
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The issue was that people directly went into DC with the full knowledge that they weren't going to get representation and the whole area was set up so that it wouldn't get federal representation. No one intended for millions of people to move to the capital to live their full time and make it a population center worth having its own state.
That being said the obvious solution is to create a new state and redraw the district of Columbia (making it much smaller and make it a non residential area. Thus making the area around it a new odd urban only state.
I would go so far as to say that this new formerly district of columbia would not vote democrat as there would be no reason for the national party to exist in such a left leaning state. There would be absolutely no reason for a democratic presidential canidate to ever come from the new state or ever campaign in the state when the election would be so far from being in doubt.
Granted they would probably caucus in congress with team Donkey but they wouldn't be democrats in even name I would have to expect.
Xdaunt has a problem with no idea how to deal with people who legitimately don't understand what he means. in return people never give him the benefit of the doubt which devolves a lot of conversations people have with him devolving into nonsense faster then others.
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United States43964 Posts
On November 10 2017 04:56 IgnE wrote:
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
He's doubling down on "yeah but they get Federal money so it's fine" as if it follows that the two issues are in any way related. There is no fundamental relationship between the two of them, and he has made absolutely no attempt to argue that there should be a relationship between passive benefits from government spending and the franchise.
The problem is xDaunt's refusal to actually argue his opinion.
The substance of what he is suggesting is colossally important for democracy as a whole. He is implying that he favours a limitation on the franchise for those who benefit from government taxation. That's a fundamental argument about the very nature of democracy and the universality of the franchise. But I'm not sure he actually wants to advocate that position, which is why he instead spins his wheels talking about how much prostitutes make in DC bars.
If the guy could ever fucking admit that he misspoke it would be a start honestly. He's determined to stand his ground on "I don't care about the voting rights of people in DC because they benefit from tax dollars" but he's also determined not to talk about why he thinks there should be a relationship between voting rights and tax dollars. If he doesn't think that relationship should exist he need only say "I misspoke, people in DC should be able to vote". If he does think that relationship should exist then he needs to actually argue it.
Instead we get him trying to turn the argument into how many tax dollars are spent in DC when that's really in no way material to the issue of the franchise.
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yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that.
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On November 10 2017 04:59 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 04:56 IgnE wrote:
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
Not enough Greek etymological references, not convinced yet
We are not to be blessed with the learning’s of the classically educated.
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On November 10 2017 05:05 brian wrote:
yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that.
I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion after all of these posts, including Igne's.
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yes, i know. that’s very clear.
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On November 10 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 05:05 brian wrote:
yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that. I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion after all of these posts, including Igne's.
I submit exhibit A
On November 10 2017 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
It's hard to feel bad about DC being taxed without representation when DC is literally swimming in other people's money and is basically built upon it.
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WASHINGTON — After a business meeting before the Miss Universe Pageant in 2013, a Russian participant offered to "send five women" to Donald Trump's hotel room in Moscow, his longtime bodyguard told Congress this week, according to three sources who were present for the interview.
Two of the sources said the bodyguard, Keith Schiller, viewed the offer as a joke, and immediately responded, "We don't do that type of stuff."
The two sources said Schiller's comments came in the context of him adamantly disputing the allegations made in the Trump dossier, written by a former British intelligence operative, which describes Trump having an encounter with prostitutes at the hotel during the pageant. Schiller described his reaction to that story as being, "Oh my God, that's bull----," two sources said.
The conversation with the Russian about the five women took place after a morning meeting about the pageant in Moscow broke up, two sources said.
That night, two sources said, Schiller said he discussed the conversation with Trump as Trump was walking back to his hotel room, and Schiller said the two men laughed about it as Trump went to bed alone. Schiller testified that he stood outside Trump's hotel room for a time and then went to bed.
One source noted that Schiller testified he eventually left Trump's hotel room door and could not say for sure what happened during the remainder of the night.
Two other sources said Schiller testified he was confident nothing happened.
Schiller said he and Trump were aware of the risk that hotel rooms in Moscow could be set up to capture hidden video, two sources said.
Schiller was grilled about the Moscow trip as part of four hours of testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. The questioning around the Moscow trip took a significant amount of time, the sources said. Schiller was also asked about the June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower between Donald Trump Jr. and Russians, two of the sources said. He testified that he did not recall much about that day.
In a statement, Schiller's lawyer said "the versions of Mr. Schiller’s testimony being leaked to the press are blatantly false and misleading. "
"We are appalled by the leaks that are coming from partisan insiders from the House Intelligence Committee," said Stuart Sears. "It is outrageous that the very Committee that is conducting an investigation into leaks — purportedly in the public interest — is itself leaking information and defaming cooperative witnesses like Mr. Schiller. The Chairman and Ranking Member should investigate and hold accountable whoever is responsible for leaking false and misleading versions of Mr. Schiller’s testimony. This conduct is indefensible and calls into question the credibility and motives of the Committee’s investigation."
A Navy veteran, Schiller worked part-time as a bodyguard for Trump while still an NYPD officer. He began working for Trump full-time after his retirement from the force in 2002 and became his director of security in 2004. He served as director of oval office operations in the Trump White House from January until September.
Source
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United States43964 Posts
xDaunt,
Do you believe that the franchise should be limited to individuals who are not dependent upon government spending? Or do you believe that the two issues are completely unrelated and that the franchise is an absolute right, regardless of the level of dependence upon government spending?
I ask because you're heavily implying the former but refusing to come out and say it.
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On November 10 2017 05:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 05:05 brian wrote:
yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that. I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion after all of these posts, including Igne's. I submit exhibit A Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
It's hard to feel bad about DC being taxed without representation when DC is literally swimming in other people's money and is basically built upon it.
You may want to think a little bit harder about which part of brian's post I took issue with.
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On November 10 2017 04:56 IgnE wrote:
honestly a lot of you people make this "xdaunt vs the world" bit a lot worse by
1) misreading xdaunts posts
2) talking about shit you don't understand very well as if you did understand it
3) consequently failing to pick a legitimate point of contention and sticking to it
4) by the time you figure out what you should have been didagreeing with xdaunt about youve spent 10 pages building outrage over something stupid, like whether xdaunt sufficiently cares about whether dc residents get the right to vote, something btw that dc residents dont seem to care sufficiently about as evidenced by their failure to mobilize a mere 700k people on the issue
5) ignore this whole embarrassing fiasco and call xdaunt names
Or xDaunt could start taking some personal responsibility by properly utilizing the cornerstone of western civilization: written language.
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On November 10 2017 05:22 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 05:19 Gorsameth wrote:On November 10 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 05:05 brian wrote:
yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that. I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion after all of these posts, including Igne's. I submit exhibit A On November 10 2017 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
It's hard to feel bad about DC being taxed without representation when DC is literally swimming in other people's money and is basically built upon it. You may want to think a little bit harder about which part of brian's post I took issue with.
and through all our posts you’ve displayed obvious ignorance about the city and it’s people. the closest you’ve gotten to walking it back so far is ‘basic economics’
you want me to hold your hand through the rest of the walking back or are we cool with parting ways here or what? or do you wanna try re-framing your position again?
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On November 10 2017 05:20 KwarK wrote:
xDaunt,
Do you believe that the franchise should be limited to individuals who are not dependent upon government spending? Or do you believe that the two issues are completely unrelated and that the franchise is an absolute right, regardless of the level of dependence upon government spending?
I ask because you're heavily implying the former but refusing to come out and say it.
This is the question I want an answer to. Igne's right about a few people and that's why xDaunt has been answering them and not this.
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On November 10 2017 05:27 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2017 05:22 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 05:19 Gorsameth wrote:On November 10 2017 05:16 xDaunt wrote:On November 10 2017 05:05 brian wrote:
yea, he problem here is that it’s XD that has no knowledge of what he claims to. rather than just being ignorant in silence, instead he gives us something like ‘its hard to have sympathy for a city of people who benefit from federal funding’ while not understanding at all either the people or the city to which he refers.
but i won’t lose sleep if you don’t see that. I'm not entirely sure how you could possibly arrive at this conclusion after all of these posts, including Igne's. I submit exhibit A On November 10 2017 02:04 xDaunt wrote:
It's hard to feel bad about DC being taxed without representation when DC is literally swimming in other people's money and is basically built upon it. You may want to think a little bit harder about which part of brian's post I took issue with. and through all our posts you’ve displayed obvious ignorance about the city and it’s people. the closest you’ve gotten to walking it back so far is ‘basic economics’ you want me to hold your hand through the rest of the walking back or are we cool with parting ways here or what
There's nothing inaccurate about anything that I said. You can take issue with a possible conflation of DC proper with the greater DC area if you really want, but as Igne pointed, it's a meaningless distinction for the purposes of the conversation.
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so we’re good here then. and no, we’ve both been talking about dc proper this whole time. it began with the franchising. i’m sure you know the rest of DC metro votes. i don’t know why Igne would bring up the distinction, it’s not meaningless- it’s just not relevant.
of course, you’d have known all this if you had the familiarity to which you apparently take offense to me telling people is complete bullshit. you don’t know dick about the people that you have no sympathy for. i can keep saying it, and because it’s true, the best you have is ‘basic economics’ and ‘its not inaccurate’
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EPT
