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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9027

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 19 2017 16:34 GMT
#180521
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 19 2017 16:35 GMT
#180522
On October 20 2017 00:08 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2017 23:51 LegalLord wrote:
On October 19 2017 23:49 Nevuk wrote:
Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying.

Can't be worse than watching a thorough psychosis when talking to Californians about Trump. Though also probably less hilarious.

Well, KY went for Trump by about the same amount California did for Clinton.

I actually totally understand why coal country people were against Clinton. She may have not meant to say "fuck off and die" but that's how they took her comments. But I work from Lexington, so eh? Less reasonable.

Honestly though, if you aren't a dick and dig deep enough, it's pretty clear they all see how bad Trump is and are themselves fully disgusted with what happens. But they have their own priorities that don't involve allowing Obama (it's usually Obama, not Clinton, they mention) to continue the same old shit through an even less competent proxy. And honestly, I can kind of respect that. More than I can respect the "everything I disagree with is also racist" retort they generally get.

Far as (non-conservative) Californians go, the best way to start a spicy discussion is to say, "thank God Trump did ..." regardless of whether or not it was one of the few times Trump stumbled upon a good idea. Or talk about how he's going to make America great again.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
October 19 2017 16:36 GMT
#180523
On October 20 2017 01:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:


An Ex Republican President confirming that Russia behind attacks, what else more do you need?
Life?
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10870 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-19 16:39:23
October 19 2017 16:38 GMT
#180524
I guess he's also a Rino now.

They need to "win", nothing will sway anyone. Team red/blue has to win and that is all what matters.

Sad!
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 19 2017 16:44 GMT
#180525
In our day, we can’t quite see anything wrong with monopoly. We’re certain that our tech giants achieved their dominance fairly and squarely through the free market, by dint of technical genius.

To conjure this image of meritocratic triumph requires overlooking several pungent truths about the nature of these new monopolies. Their dominance is less than pure.

They owe their dominance to innovation, but also to tax avoidance.

Of course, every big American corporation tries to limit the tax bill. Armies of accountants are a staple of capitalism; the manufacture of new deductions is one of our country’s greatest showcases of innovation. But the tech companies are especially slippery with the tax man. They have hatched schemes that their competitors – brick-and mortar firms, media companies – couldn’t dare attempt.

When Jeff Bezos first conceived of Amazon, he originally wanted to locate the company on a California Indian reservation, where it would pay hardly any tax. Authorities rejected that gambit. But Bezos understood that internet commerce challenged traditional ideas about taxation. Thanks to a court ruling, rendered just as he launched his company, Amazon could get away without paying sales tax to the states to which it shipped its goods.

Google has the same sort of unpatriotic accounting schemes. Google has also shifted assets to Bermuda, that famous mecca of high tech. By the end of 2015, it had “permanently reinvested” $58.3bn of its profits in foreign tax havens, earnings on which it pays no US tax.

The tech companies maintain every shred of data, yet seem to want to purge every bit of taxable earnings. The year Facebook went public, it recorded $1.1bn in American profits, but didn’t pay a cent of federal or state income tax. Indeed, it earned a $429m refund. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, Facebook bilked the treasury by taking a single deduction: it wrote off the stock options it gave to its executives.

These companies can afford to push the limits of acceptable behavior, because they have paid such care and attention to Washington. While the tech companies are hardly the image of corpulent K Street, they have built massive lobbying operations that pace the halls of the regulatory agencies and Congress, stacked with skillful hacks.

Google executives set foot in the Obama White House more often than those of any other corporation – its head lobbyist visited 128 times. Google spread its money across Washington with joyous ecumenicism. Google spent about $17m on influence peddlers of both partisan varietals. By one count, Google poured more into its DC apparatus than any other public company. An investigation by The Intercept concluded: “Google has achieved a kind of vertical integration with the government.” Somehow Google managed to overcome the recommendation of staffers on the Federal Trade Commission who found Google’s monopolistic machinations worthy of a lawsuit.

Lobbyists for the companies have preserved a blissful state of barely regulated, barely taxed monopoly. They have played the politics brilliantly. Obama spent his presidency cheering on the tech companies, even pleading with the Europeans not to collect the taxes owed to them. In return, the tech companies have sent their best brains to work for the Democratic administration and its political campaigns.

The tech companies have so mastered Washington, they have acquired such cultural prestige, that it’s hard to imagine the system ever restraining them. But we know that politics doesn’t repose in a steady state, and the companies have one gaping vulnerability – they aggressively surveil users. Thus far, the public has tolerated these invasions, but that won’t last forever.

Hackers are constantly testing security cordons, and constantly bursting through them. Everybody has tolerated this as a fact of digital life, a minor price to pay for its wonders. With the exception of Russian interference in our election, these have been relatively minor breaches. They will prove throat clearing compared with the Big One, the inevitable mega-hack that will rumble society to its core.

The Big One might be an exposed cache of intimate information that disrupts marital relations en masse, as the Ashley Madison hack did on a small scale. It might disrupt our financial system, so that fortunes disappear in an unrecoverable flash. Or it might trigger an actual explosion of infrastructure that kills. If we could predict, we could prevent, but we can’t.

The tech companies can see the Big One coming, and they are bracing for the fallout, which is a perfectly reasonable posture. Their companies have created devices and code that enable omnipresent surveillance; their pack-rat servers hoard personal data. These companies could logically carry the blame for a massive attack.

The best analogy is the financial crisis of 2008. There was nothing that the banks could do to gain political traction in the face of the catastrophe that they unleashed. When the Big One arrives, the tech companies will be vulnerable to the regulation that they have skillfully avoided. (Shamefully, there’s no modern law governing the
use of data.) Just as the financial crisis triggered the creation of Elizabeth Warren’s Consumer Financial Protection Bureau – the rare launch of a new agency – the Big One has the potential for creating a sizable regulatory infrastructure.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 19 2017 16:45 GMT
#180526



Interesting that bush was totally silent during Obama's term, but speaking up about Trump
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-19 16:51:40
October 19 2017 16:45 GMT
#180527
What the "alt-right" is saying now. So definitely going with the NIRO approach.

[image loading]
Life?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 19 2017 16:54 GMT
#180528


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43817 Posts
October 19 2017 16:57 GMT
#180529
Stealthblue, in response to the Facebook tax in the year it went public, that's a misrepresentation.

Facebook paid executives in stock options in earlier years. However the executives didn't exercise those stock options and so what Facebook effectively had was a contract that bound it to buy Facebook stock at the fair market value, and sell it at the agreed upon option price to executives. As the facebook stock price goes up, so the unrealized loss attached to the options goes up. Then, on the day that the options are invoked, Facebook makes what is effectively a colossally bad trade, receiving payment at the option price that was agreed upon many years before while paying at the fair market value, a huge loss. That loss wiped out any taxable profits they made that year, and was applied as a loss carryback to earn them a tax refund from previous years.

In real terms what happened was that Facebook paid executives a shitton of money every year for a few years, a salary expense that massively reduced their earnings, and therefore the taxes owed on their earnings. However that salary expense wasn't recognized in the first few years, and then it was all recognized at once, causing them to overpay in tax for a few years and then get it all back.

Meanwhile the executives were underpaying in tax for the first few years because they were getting paid in options which they hadn't invoked, not salary, and therefore their taxable income was lower. And then, in 2012, they got all of the income at once and had colossal personal tax bills to pay.

Facebook gave the money to the executives as a deductible business expense. Therefore facebook didn't have to pay tax on that money because it wasn't profit. However the executives did have to pay tax on that money because it was income. The tax burden wasn't erased, it was shifted.

The only slightly loopholey thing is that there are caps on the deductibility of executive salaries, but not on stock options. Facebook wouldn't have been able to deduct "excessive" compensation of execs as a business expense whereas they could deduct the loss on the options. But basically that criticism of facebook is a swing and a miss. The tax was all paid, the tax burden was just shifted.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 19 2017 16:57 GMT
#180530
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 19 2017 17:00 GMT
#180531
On October 20 2017 01:44 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
In our day, we can’t quite see anything wrong with monopoly. We’re certain that our tech giants achieved their dominance fairly and squarely through the free market, by dint of technical genius.

To conjure this image of meritocratic triumph requires overlooking several pungent truths about the nature of these new monopolies. Their dominance is less than pure.

They owe their dominance to innovation, but also to tax avoidance.

Of course, every big American corporation tries to limit the tax bill. Armies of accountants are a staple of capitalism; the manufacture of new deductions is one of our country’s greatest showcases of innovation. But the tech companies are especially slippery with the tax man. They have hatched schemes that their competitors – brick-and mortar firms, media companies – couldn’t dare attempt.

When Jeff Bezos first conceived of Amazon, he originally wanted to locate the company on a California Indian reservation, where it would pay hardly any tax. Authorities rejected that gambit. But Bezos understood that internet commerce challenged traditional ideas about taxation. Thanks to a court ruling, rendered just as he launched his company, Amazon could get away without paying sales tax to the states to which it shipped its goods.

Google has the same sort of unpatriotic accounting schemes. Google has also shifted assets to Bermuda, that famous mecca of high tech. By the end of 2015, it had “permanently reinvested” $58.3bn of its profits in foreign tax havens, earnings on which it pays no US tax.

The tech companies maintain every shred of data, yet seem to want to purge every bit of taxable earnings. The year Facebook went public, it recorded $1.1bn in American profits, but didn’t pay a cent of federal or state income tax. Indeed, it earned a $429m refund. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, Facebook bilked the treasury by taking a single deduction: it wrote off the stock options it gave to its executives.

These companies can afford to push the limits of acceptable behavior, because they have paid such care and attention to Washington. While the tech companies are hardly the image of corpulent K Street, they have built massive lobbying operations that pace the halls of the regulatory agencies and Congress, stacked with skillful hacks.

Google executives set foot in the Obama White House more often than those of any other corporation – its head lobbyist visited 128 times. Google spread its money across Washington with joyous ecumenicism. Google spent about $17m on influence peddlers of both partisan varietals. By one count, Google poured more into its DC apparatus than any other public company. An investigation by The Intercept concluded: “Google has achieved a kind of vertical integration with the government.” Somehow Google managed to overcome the recommendation of staffers on the Federal Trade Commission who found Google’s monopolistic machinations worthy of a lawsuit.

Lobbyists for the companies have preserved a blissful state of barely regulated, barely taxed monopoly. They have played the politics brilliantly. Obama spent his presidency cheering on the tech companies, even pleading with the Europeans not to collect the taxes owed to them. In return, the tech companies have sent their best brains to work for the Democratic administration and its political campaigns.

The tech companies have so mastered Washington, they have acquired such cultural prestige, that it’s hard to imagine the system ever restraining them. But we know that politics doesn’t repose in a steady state, and the companies have one gaping vulnerability – they aggressively surveil users. Thus far, the public has tolerated these invasions, but that won’t last forever.

Hackers are constantly testing security cordons, and constantly bursting through them. Everybody has tolerated this as a fact of digital life, a minor price to pay for its wonders. With the exception of Russian interference in our election, these have been relatively minor breaches. They will prove throat clearing compared with the Big One, the inevitable mega-hack that will rumble society to its core.

The Big One might be an exposed cache of intimate information that disrupts marital relations en masse, as the Ashley Madison hack did on a small scale. It might disrupt our financial system, so that fortunes disappear in an unrecoverable flash. Or it might trigger an actual explosion of infrastructure that kills. If we could predict, we could prevent, but we can’t.

The tech companies can see the Big One coming, and they are bracing for the fallout, which is a perfectly reasonable posture. Their companies have created devices and code that enable omnipresent surveillance; their pack-rat servers hoard personal data. These companies could logically carry the blame for a massive attack.

The best analogy is the financial crisis of 2008. There was nothing that the banks could do to gain political traction in the face of the catastrophe that they unleashed. When the Big One arrives, the tech companies will be vulnerable to the regulation that they have skillfully avoided. (Shamefully, there’s no modern law governing the
use of data.) Just as the financial crisis triggered the creation of Elizabeth Warren’s Consumer Financial Protection Bureau – the rare launch of a new agency – the Big One has the potential for creating a sizable regulatory infrastructure.


Source

My conservative drinking buddy and I were talking about tech companies last week and came to a similar conclusion. He does not like government regulation, but he hates the idea of the surveillance by corporations more. And you can’t escape Facebook or google, even if you don’t have an account or use their services. They have infected every webpage we visit and all forms of online commerce.

But we got on the topic why no one cared when Obama and all of congress were drinking up millions from google, apple and other firms. And we remembered when both of us got our Iphones and how amazing they were. How amazing google maps was at the time. The fun that was YouTube in its early days when no one knew how to make money. Meeting random strangers through Xbox live becoming friends. Early, scrappy Esports and watching GSL at 5 am before I went to work. Even twitter in 2008-2010, when a scrappy video game site I liked got to talk to Icecube about video games. The star trek future had arrived and someone out there was trying to teach our pocket computers to translate languages in real time. That tech boom just seemed like a magical time were crazy things were possible. I was totally on board, so I can’t honestly blame congress or Obama for not wanting to pump the breaks back then.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
October 19 2017 17:23 GMT
#180532
We would need a "Citizens Corporate Privacy Act" that massively expanded the rights of customers against tech companies that overrides anything in a Terms of Service agreement. That will never happen until some kind of terrible scandal comes out. Google would have to do something monstrous that hurt a lot of Republican congressmen personally.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 19 2017 17:34 GMT
#180533
I know a couple nations in the EU have laws that require companies to purge the data if someone makes a formal request. You can also request the data to review it. The average person has like 200 pages or something insane.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 19 2017 17:45 GMT
#180534
Trump was particularly savage to all of the Bushes and was a thorough asshole. I don't blame any of them for holding a grudge.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 19 2017 17:54 GMT
#180535
He can own all that shade and handle it. His campaign contained so many base insults and jaw-dropping lies. He just shakes it off and we can eventually get into just why it works.

Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 19 2017 17:59 GMT
#180536
I don’t think it is personal with GW at all. I think he worried about the impact the disinformation efforts are having on the US and broadcast media seems to buy into it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22193 Posts
October 19 2017 18:06 GMT
#180537
GW, for all the shit he did that I disagree with, I atleast believe he meant well. Which is more then can be said for a lot of Republicans.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-19 18:23:15
October 19 2017 18:17 GMT
#180538
The president isnt even in control. The shadow goverment is. Whatever that is, its a force that is hidden and control the strings.

I think they have not only control of U.S but other countries as well. This means they control C.I.A, FBI, media and more stuff.
Ever wondered why media always have the same propaganda? Never truly investigates stuff or ask "true" questions?
So called freedom of speach, why is it that they brush off important questions as nothing?


The whole medical care is fake, vaccinations are deadly, and the food in U.S deadly as fuck as well.
The irony is that SWEDEN politicans wants to say YES to this deadly food.

There are COUNTLESS of studies showing that this food, vaccinations and medical care is very dangerous. Medical care=their surgeries and medicines.
They are using media

Why is it that whenever someone is talking about curing cancer with right nutritient its brushed off as nothing? Why dont they truly look into it?
When someone says that studies show that this food for example is very bad, you can hear something along these lines:
"I am a neutral scientist and my studies show its not dangerous, therefore the other study has done it wrong"


Here is a ex cia giving info about shadow goverment



Here is some stuff about vaccinations.
I have more links but they are in swedish
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/07/02/critical-vaccine-studies.aspx


Here is link showing that MONSANTO, the leader of GMO food and other posinous food stuff have been found guilty of crimes against humanity
https://www.newstarget.com/2017-05-05-international-tribunal-finds-monsanto-guilty-of-crimes-against-humanity.html


Cant really find other links talking about GMO, i only have links in swedish.


There are numberous reserarches saying that conflict of interest is really big when it comes to reserach.
The ones that are supposed to "protect" us, arent doing that one bit.
Many politicnas are bought, even in sweden. Iam very certain of this because THEY IGNORE ALL RESEARCH that says that this product is bad. And then they only talk about reserarch that shows good stuff. Thats what media is doing as well, they show their propaganda, and manipulate.



More and more proof are coming up that says 9/11 has been U.S all along. Some call it an inside job, some call it an outside job with help by inside.


The tactic by doing stuff like this, is they put fear in citizens. Their motive is to distract the citizens by focusing on something else, war to other contries.
This whole "russia, bad guy" propaganda as well, its the same thing.


Why was it that media never showed bill gates going to another country, doing a new vaccine into different people. They become VERY SICK.
Then one year after this, he goes to another country, do the same thing? Why didnt media in U.S report this?

I believe the only media that covered that was one in india.





User was warned for this post
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 19 2017 18:19 GMT
#180539
On October 20 2017 03:17 Foxxan wrote:
The president isnt even in control. The shadow goverment is. Whatever that is, its a force that is hidden and control the strings.

I think they have not only control of U.S but other countries as well. This means they control C.I.A, FBI, media and more stuff.
Ever wondered why media always have the same propaganda? Never truly investigates stuff or ask "true" questions?
So called freedom of speach, why is it that they brush off important questions as nothing?


The whole medical care is fake, vaccinations are deadly, and the food in U.S deadly as fuck as well.
The irony is that SWEDEN politicans wants to say YES to this deadly food.

There are COUNTLESS of studies showing that this food, vaccinations and medical care is very dangerous. Medical care=their surgeries and medicines.
They are using media

Why is it that whenever someone is talking about curing cancer with right nutritient its brushed off as nothing? Why dont they truly look into it?
When someone says that studies show that this food for example is very bad, you can hear something along these lines:
"I am a neutral scientist and my studies show its not dangerous, therefore the other study has done it wrong"


Here is a ex cia giving info about shadow goverment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHbrOg092GA


Here is some stuff about vaccinations.
I have more links but they are in swedish
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/07/02/critical-vaccine-studies.aspx


Here is link showing that MONSANTO, the leader of GMO food and other posinous food stuff have been found guilty of crimes against humanity
https://www.newstarget.com/2017-05-05-international-tribunal-finds-monsanto-guilty-of-crimes-against-humanity.html


Cant really find other links talking about GMO, i only have links in swedish.


There are numberous reserarches saying that conflict of interest is really big when it comes to reserach.
The ones that are supposed to "protect" us, arent doing that one bit.
Many politicnas are bought, even in sweden. Iam very certain of this because THEY IGNORE ALL RESEARCH that says that this product is bad. And then they only talk about reserarch that shows good stuff. Thats what media is doing as well, they show their propaganda, and manipulate.






Sounds like trouble. Someone should definitely look into that issue.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
October 19 2017 18:20 GMT
#180540
On October 20 2017 03:17 Foxxan wrote:
The president isnt even in control. The shadow goverment is. Whatever that is, its a force that is hidden and control the strings.

I think they have not only control of U.S but other countries as well. This means they control C.I.A, FBI, media and more stuff.
Ever wondered why media always have the same propaganda? Never truly investigates stuff or ask "true" questions?
So called freedom of speach, why is it that they brush off important questions as nothing?


The whole medical care is fake, vaccinations are deadly, and the food in U.S deadly as fuck as well.
The irony is that SWEDEN politicans wants to say YES to this deadly food.

There are COUNTLESS of studies showing that this food, vaccinations and medical care is very dangerous. Medical care=their surgeries and medicines.
They are using media

Why is it that whenever someone is talking about curing cancer with right nutritient its brushed off as nothing? Why dont they truly look into it?
When someone says that studies show that this food for example is very bad, you can hear something along these lines:
"I am a neutral scientist and my studies show its not dangerous, therefore the other study has done it wrong"


Here is a ex cia giving info about shadow goverment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHbrOg092GA


Here is some stuff about vaccinations.
I have more links but they are in swedish
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/07/02/critical-vaccine-studies.aspx


Here is link showing that MONSANTO, the leader of GMO food and other posinous food stuff have been found guilty of crimes against humanity
https://www.newstarget.com/2017-05-05-international-tribunal-finds-monsanto-guilty-of-crimes-against-humanity.html


Cant really find other links talking about GMO, i only have links in swedish.


There are numberous reserarches saying that conflict of interest is really big when it comes to reserach.
The ones that are supposed to "protect" us, arent doing that one bit.
Many politicnas are bought, even in sweden. Iam very certain of this because THEY IGNORE ALL RESEARCH that says that this product is bad. And then they only talk about reserarch that shows good stuff. Thats what media is doing as well, they show their propaganda, and manipulate.






Thoughts on globehead conspiracy concealing flat earth?
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