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On October 19 2017 22:47 KwarK wrote:
Clinton is a Republican in all but name. She's a neo-liberal, a product of the post-Reagan consensus. It's not about the politics, no more than it was when Obama gave you the Heritage Foundation's Romneycare, it's about identity politics and the diminishing status of the white Christian male in American politics. Trump mobilized the fragile ego of the racists and sexists and turned them into a coherent voting identity.
Also there are numerous conservatives in this thread that I and other are able to have a discussion with and understand why they didn’t like Obama and the things we believe. I have drinks with on all the time. This world where the conservatives are abused people who’s views are not respected only exists some poster’s head.
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On October 19 2017 14:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 13:49 Rebs wrote:On October 19 2017 13:43 LegalLord wrote:
To be fair, Trump probably was the easiest candidate to defeat. The opposition was just that weak. Dont forget to get your Hillary Jabs in folks... Nevermind the rest of the discussion around the devolution of discourse that technically the most powerful man in the world (shudder) has brought about and that nearly half your country loved it or clearly didnt mind it. + Show Spoiler +Notice me Comrade Vladimir..!! "Please, please have no fun until I say the apocalypse is over. It's not funny. IT'S NOT FUNNY." Yeah, you deserve the utmost derision for just hopping onto the bandwagon this late in the game. We'll pretend the world is bright and sunny if you're a good boy and vote Obama. The second you turn your backs on us and our next in line, it's all your fault you scum. Literally, your attitude is a good part of the reason why you got Trump. He's absolutely the symptom to a problem you can't understand and won't address. And you go on and on about "The symptoms are getting worse! Stop smiling he's actually that bad and he's causing all this" when past warnings about the underlying disease went unheeded. We helped answer your pompous arrogance with a base right-wing populist bat, and instead of course correction you chose doubling down on elitism, identity politics, and tribalism. November 2016 could've been the start of introspection at why approximately half the country ended up hating your guts, but you chose your same ignorant answers for that one too. Enjoy the next three years.
You must know that this argument that you knowingly and purposely voted for a symptom and a problem doesn't work.
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On October 19 2017 22:47 Danglars wrote:If everybody shied away from Obamacare reform, much less repeal, the same cowardice will pervade pushing for tax reform. Who paid for it and was it used to justify FISA surveillance (as anonymously leaked to CNN regarding Carter Page). Thankfully, congressional investigations proceed on the wiretapping and unmasking. The leaking of unmasked documents pertaining to Michael Flynn was and is a federal crime.
There has been no sign from congress that there was any wrongdoing or issues with the unmasking or wire tapping. There is more than enough evidence justify probable cause on Paul Manafort and Flynn. Especially Manafort.
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McMaster exonerated Susan Rice on that issue.
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Yeah, McMaster even exonerated Rice to the point where the Russian botnet turned on him for a brief period and advocated for his firing.
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On October 19 2017 23:19 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Yeah, McMaster even exonerated Rice to the point where the Russian botnet turned on him for a brief period and advocated for his firing.
Not to mention Breitbart. Those two seem to have high levels of correlation.
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On October 19 2017 14:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 13:49 Rebs wrote:On October 19 2017 13:43 LegalLord wrote:
To be fair, Trump probably was the easiest candidate to defeat. The opposition was just that weak. Dont forget to get your Hillary Jabs in folks... Nevermind the rest of the discussion around the devolution of discourse that technically the most powerful man in the world (shudder) has brought about and that nearly half your country loved it or clearly didnt mind it. + Show Spoiler +Notice me Comrade Vladimir..!! "Please, please have no fun until I say the apocalypse is over. It's not funny. IT'S NOT FUNNY." Yeah, you deserve the utmost derision for just hopping onto the bandwagon this late in the game. We'll pretend the world is bright and sunny if you're a good boy and vote Obama. The second you turn your backs on us and our next in line, it's all your fault you scum. Literally, your attitude is a good part of the reason why you got Trump. He's absolutely the symptom to a problem you can't understand and won't address. And you go on and on about "The symptoms are getting worse! Stop smiling he's actually that bad and he's causing all this" when past warnings about the underlying disease went unheeded. We helped answer your pompous arrogance with a base right-wing populist bat, and instead of course correction you chose doubling down on elitism, identity politics, and tribalism. November 2016 could've been the start of introspection at why approximately half the country ended up hating your guts, but you chose your same ignorant answers for that one too. Enjoy the next three years.
No no, komrad, we have Trump because you and half of american voters somewhat thought it would be a great idea to have an austin power villain sitting in Jefferson and Lincoln's chair.
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On October 19 2017 23:19 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Yeah, McMaster even exonerated Rice to the point where the Russian botnet turned on him for a brief period and advocated for his firing.
Notice how I didn't mention Rice once. Come back to me when you read it again.
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On October 19 2017 23:24 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 23:19 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Yeah, McMaster even exonerated Rice to the point where the Russian botnet turned on him for a brief period and advocated for his firing. Not to mention Breitbart. Those two seem to have high levels of correlation.
Breitbart has been pushing the Russian bot net’s narrative since well before the election.
On October 19 2017 23:39 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 23:19 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Yeah, McMaster even exonerated Rice to the point where the Russian botnet turned on him for a brief period and advocated for his firing. Notice how I didn't mention Rice once. Come back to me when you read it again.
There is no unmasking claim beyond Rice.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
The causality is probably reversed. The best trollbot strategy is to do as the populist does.
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Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying.
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Pat Tiberi, a high ranking Republican congressman, is getting the fuck outta dodge by January of the upcoming year. He'll get replaced by a Republican most likely.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 19 2017 23:49 Nevuk wrote:
Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying.
Can't be worse than watching a thorough psychosis when talking to Californians about Trump. Though also probably less hilarious.
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On October 19 2017 11:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:Watching the Sanders vs Cruz debate. Been very pleased so far. Despite being political polar opposites, they are friendly and on point. And honestly, I'm finding Cruz even somewhat likable. Highlight for me is when a guy from denmark asks Bernie an absolutely on point question (one that I felt Bernie had been skirting around in the past) about how a scandinavian system requires far higher taxation levels across the board - not just of the wealthy - than what the case is for the American system. And then Sanders takes the opportunity to ask him about the cost of various services offered by the danish government, paid for by these taxes. Was a challenging question which ended up as a perfect layup.  I'm also left feeling that this debate flies straight in the face of the idea that Trump is a symptom rather than a cause of a corrupted discourse - if Bernie and Ted Cruz can have a cordial discussion, then certainly other democrats and republicans could, too. I totally disagree with Ted Cruz, and while he's guilty of the occasional misrepresentation (as is Sanders of him), I have no issues with his style. I also think he's a highly skilled debater. Trump however, is fucking poison.
After an election in the U.K. in which the PM refused to debate the opposition leader, these debates are kind of refreshing. Shows intellectual confidence from the proponents of both sides of the debate.
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On October 19 2017 23:49 Nevuk wrote:
Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying.
there's a lot of very stupid/foolish people in the world. it's a real problem to deal with.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/us/north-carolina-republicans-gerrymander-judges-.html
"RALEIGH, N.C. — Republicans with a firm grip on the North Carolina legislature — and, until January, the governor’s seat — enacted a conservative agenda in recent years, only to have a steady stream of laws affecting voting and legislative power rejected by the courts.
Now lawmakers have seized on a solution: change the makeup of the courts.
Judges in state courts as of this year must identify their party affiliation on ballots, making North Carolina the first state in nearly a century to adopt partisan court elections. The General Assembly in Raleigh reduced the size of the state Court of Appeals, depriving Gov. Roy Cooper, a Democrat, of naming replacements for retiring Republicans.
And this month, lawmakers drew new boundaries for judicial districts statewide, which critics say are meant to increase the number of Republican judges on district and superior courts and would force many African-Americans on the bench into runoffs against other incumbents."
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Switzerland12216 Posts
On October 19 2017 23:51 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 11:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:Watching the Sanders vs Cruz debate. Been very pleased so far. Despite being political polar opposites, they are friendly and on point. And honestly, I'm finding Cruz even somewhat likable. Highlight for me is when a guy from denmark asks Bernie an absolutely on point question (one that I felt Bernie had been skirting around in the past) about how a scandinavian system requires far higher taxation levels across the board - not just of the wealthy - than what the case is for the American system. And then Sanders takes the opportunity to ask him about the cost of various services offered by the danish government, paid for by these taxes. Was a challenging question which ended up as a perfect layup. I'm also left feeling that this debate flies straight in the face of the idea that Trump is a symptom rather than a cause of a corrupted discourse - if Bernie and Ted Cruz can have a cordial discussion, then certainly other democrats and republicans could, too. I totally disagree with Ted Cruz, and while he's guilty of the occasional misrepresentation (as is Sanders of him), I have no issues with his style. I also think he's a highly skilled debater. Trump however, is fucking poison. After an election in the U.K. in which the PM refused to debate the opposition leader, these debates are kind of refreshing. Shows intellectual confidence from the proponents of both sides of the debate.
I can't really bring myself to watch these types of things anymore. I've come to the position that debates are only fruitful when both parties engaged in them are intellectually honest. Cruz, in this case, is obviously not. So nothing can really come out of it. He's a skilled enough orator that he will use language that ensures nobody who was on his side is suddenly going to think Sanders has a decent point.
Only positive thing I can think of is that it brought awareness to the concept of a raise in taxes being required for social democracy, as Drone points out. It can't and shouldn't come as a surprise to people if you ever manage to get there.
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Wonder if something is about to drop.
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On October 19 2017 23:49 Nevuk wrote:
Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying.
People don’t like admitting they were tricked or wrong, which is basically what was happening there. They believed the Democrat was lying. They will admit that Trump said what he said, but the Democrat still lied about it. There is more and more research that people feel better after standing their ground a subject, even if they know they have the facts wrong.
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On October 19 2017 23:51 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2017 23:49 Nevuk wrote:
Don't talk politics with old white people in Kentucky. It gets... Weird. They fully agree with Trump that the congresswoman lied. When I say that means they are calling a military widow a liar, they just repeat that it was all made up to damage Trump, and that the democrat representative was definitely lying. Can't be worse than watching a thorough psychosis when talking to Californians about Trump. Though also probably less hilarious.
Well, KY went for Trump by about the same amount California did for Clinton.
I actually totally understand why coal country people were against Clinton. She may have not meant to say "fuck off and die" but that's how they took her comments. But I work from Lexington, so eh? Less reasonable.
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EPT
