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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Taking a step back and looking at the President of the United States tweets in the last 24 hours:
- 'Withdrew' a white house invitation out of spite because the invitee was hesitating to go
- Complimented his wife
- Threatened athletes to lose their jobs over not following the strict nationalist procedures that are for some reason mandatory in a commercial sports game between local teams
- Warmongering with Iran for a deal most of the world is happy about and even US advisers are saying Iran is adhering to.
- Flaming John McCain
- Threatened athletes some more
- Casually threatening the eradication of North Korea
- Threatening athletes some more
- Saying people who love their country should not visit a certain sports league and flaming that leagues ratings
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If he weren't in such a powerful position he would look utterly pitiful.
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Canada11607 Posts
Priorities. Trump has them in spades. His concern for outward portrayals of patriotism at spectacles would make more sense if he were a despot. He seems to have the instincts of one.
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On September 25 2017 02:25 Falling wrote:
Yeah, as it was the pollsters that came up with the question themselves: "white European culture", I could very well see positive answers including both the dog whistle guys and people that support protecting pan-European culture, which might be a better, less loaded term. Like, most people that have lived in America for a long time, probably could not trace a pure Germanic, Italian, British, etc line and so if you are part French, Scot, Swedish, and Greek, you would value a more collective understanding of European culture rather than a highly specific one (Bavarian, Basque...).
For instance, could someone, who simply thinks European history should continue to be taught in high school and post-secondary, reasonably think that "America must protect and preserve its White European heritage" more or less covers what he wants? I think at the very least, that guy is checking "Somewhat agree."
What is just as interesting is
"All races should be treated equally": 80% strong support 9% somewhat and only 1% not at all.
And America must protect and preserve its multi-cultural heritage 56% strong, 21% somewhat 14% ambivalent, but only 5% disagreeing to a greater or lesser extent. That means the Left and Right have some pretty big points of agreement, unless the Right makes up only 5% of the population. That suggest to me- just don't throw the baby out with the bath water on the cultural front. Yes/ and rather than either/or.
When you say things like "protect and preserve," you wrap up people that know something of a Western culture is under attack. I'm guessing the pollsters wanted to pair real white supremacists with people that think all this violence is aimed at erasing inconvenient/politically incorrect history to get a big percentage.
You're right that there's substantial agreement with America. A vocal minority of alt-left and alt-right possess outsize volume.
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DJT's latest is a part of his typical (1) tough-talk (2) weak-walkback cycle. First he concedes locked arms for nothing, then he will self negotiate down to saying it is okay that players kneel.
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Petty petty president
Cries all alone in his bed
Nobody wants to play his game
He thinks it's such a shame
Others think quite differently
Kick him out officially
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On September 25 2017 04:14 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 02:25 Falling wrote:
Yeah, as it was the pollsters that came up with the question themselves: "white European culture", I could very well see positive answers including both the dog whistle guys and people that support protecting pan-European culture, which might be a better, less loaded term. Like, most people that have lived in America for a long time, probably could not trace a pure Germanic, Italian, British, etc line and so if you are part French, Scot, Swedish, and Greek, you would value a more collective understanding of European culture rather than a highly specific one (Bavarian, Basque...).
For instance, could someone, who simply thinks European history should continue to be taught in high school and post-secondary, reasonably think that "America must protect and preserve its White European heritage" more or less covers what he wants? I think at the very least, that guy is checking "Somewhat agree."
What is just as interesting is
"All races should be treated equally": 80% strong support 9% somewhat and only 1% not at all.
And America must protect and preserve its multi-cultural heritage 56% strong, 21% somewhat 14% ambivalent, but only 5% disagreeing to a greater or lesser extent. That means the Left and Right have some pretty big points of agreement, unless the Right makes up only 5% of the population. That suggest to me- just don't throw the baby out with the bath water on the cultural front. Yes/ and rather than either/or. When you say things like "protect and preserve," you wrap up people that know something of a Western culture is under attack. I'm guessing the pollsters wanted to pair real white supremacists with people that think all this violence is aimed at erasing inconvenient/politically incorrect history to get a big percentage. You're right that there's substantial agreement with America. A vocal minority of alt-left and alt-right possess outsize volume.
What would it mean to "erase" some piece of history to you? I suppose that's where a lot of disagreement on this front comes from. To me, having a statue of someone, or a building named after them, or an image of them on a dollar bill has fairly little historical value by itself. Just seeing Jackson on a $20 or living in a campus residence hall with the name Calhoun on it does very little to teach me about the history. Classes, documentaries, textbooks, and the like can teach me the history pretty well; a statue, a portrait, or just a name teaches me nothing.
To me these sorts of monuments are more for honoring someone, or more precisely, making a statement about what they mean to us. So taking down a statue would be making a statement that we have changed our opinion about their significance, but I have trouble seeing how it would ever be able to "erase" them from history; changing the textbooks and curriculum would seem like the obvious place where that fight would happen. But obviously you disagree, so I was curious about your point of view.
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Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord.
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On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord.
It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV.
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On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV.
Don't confuse the reaction of the teams with the reaction of the fans. The big loser here is going to be the NFL, which is unfortunate.
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On September 25 2017 05:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV. Don't confuse the reaction of the teams with the reaction of the fans. The big loser here is going to be the NFL, which is unfortunate.
Can you elaborate on what you think is unfortunate for the NFL?
To me as a non American this is not immediately obvious so pardon my asking.
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United Kingdom10006 Posts
Does anyone else see the irony in Trump and some of his supporters urging bosses to sack their employees for exercising their first amendment rights?
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On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV.
This isn't going to work. now you have the danger that these protests have been hijacked to be "Trump vs. unpatriotic NFL players". It's more about Trump than whatever they are ostensibly protesting. Isn't it interesting how they decided to do this after Trump brought it up? That's what this looks like to people.
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On September 25 2017 05:17 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 05:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV. Don't confuse the reaction of the teams with the reaction of the fans. The big loser here is going to be the NFL, which is unfortunate. Can you elaborate on what you think is unfortunate for the NFL? To me as a non American this is not immediately obvious so pardon my asking.
The nfl can't win either way. They'll lose fans no matter what direction they go. The owners will individually all side with the players in order to be able to sign a black man in the next generation. They will lose a portion of their audience that doesn't side with the players and will be angry that the league isn't doing anything about it. They were already having a bad year and going in a bad direction with a flopping pair of franchises as well as the concussion issue compounding again as well again I with the domestic violence issues.
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Trump brought it up for the umpteenth time.
Isn't it usual that people stand up more and more for actual equality than superficial unity if under a barrage of stupid attacks and a changing, increasingly hostile climate in the country?
e:
On September 25 2017 05:36 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 05:17 Artisreal wrote:On September 25 2017 05:09 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV. Don't confuse the reaction of the teams with the reaction of the fans. The big loser here is going to be the NFL, which is unfortunate. Can you elaborate on what you think is unfortunate for the NFL? To me as a non American this is not immediately obvious so pardon my asking. The nfl can't win either way. They'll lose fans no matter what direction they go. The owners will individually all side with the players in order to be able to sign a black man in the next generation. They will lose a portion of their audience that doesn't side with the players and will be angry that the league isn't doing anything about it. They were already having a bad year and going in a bad direction with a flopping pair of franchises as well as the concussion issue compounding again as well again I with the domestic violence issues.
Thank you.
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On September 25 2017 05:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 05:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:On September 25 2017 04:58 Plansix wrote:
Trump has picked a fight with the most popular sport in America. Good lord. It's almost poetic how attempting to appeal to his voter base and their second religion on Sundays (football) backfired quite horribly. All he's done is enrage players and the team owners to take a stand against their president, and now everyone is going to get a dose of a middle finger at Trump on their Sunday TV. Don't confuse the reaction of the teams with the reaction of the fans. The big loser here is going to be the NFL, which is unfortunate.
The thing is the NFL is in a no win situation. They risk pissing off one of there core audiences one way or the other so if you have no way out you might as well stand for the first amendment I guess.
Edit: why does this site think today is my cake day? Its not till tomorrow.
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On September 25 2017 05:31 Jockmcplop wrote:
Does anyone else see the irony in Trump and some of his supporters urging bosses to sack their employees for exercising their first amendment rights?
Indeed; funny how that sentiment also partners with a magical ability to speak on behalf of others.
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EPT
