• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:46
CEST 02:46
KST 09:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 663 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8532

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8530 8531 8532 8533 8534 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:34:49
August 23 2017 15:33 GMT
#170621
meh, ESPN has been acting like idiots for a while... news of that Tennis commentator guy getting fired hits the social media universe...

less than 5 minutes after that news hits their MMA guy Brett Okamoto (sp?) is talking about Jared "The Killer Gorilla" Canonier

ok guys. How did Gorilla Monsoon handle it?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 23 2017 15:34 GMT
#170622
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:42:01
August 23 2017 15:37 GMT
#170623
On August 24 2017 00:34 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.

Trump is threatening to pull out as a negotiation tactic. he knows Canada needs the US more than the other way around. Great move by Trump.

i'm happy with the 1984 US/Canada FT deal. The 1993 NAFTA deal was one of Chretien's few failures. Primary "blame" rests with Mulroney on deal #2, however, Chretien promised to re-open negotiations and never did. For full context, Mulroney did a nice job with the 1984 US/Canada deal though. in between all this Kim Campbell was all kinds of useless.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 23 2017 15:39 GMT
#170624
First letters of each paragraph.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:44:35
August 23 2017 15:40 GMT
#170625
On August 24 2017 00:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:34 zlefin wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.

i'm happy with the 1984 US/Canada FT deal. The 1993 NAFTA deal was one of Chretien's few failures.

um, ok. your opinion is noted.
but you being happy with it isn't really much of an indication of anything as to its actual quality or cost/benefits; or the benefits of trade deals and free trade in general.

please dont' keep edit adding text after you've already been responded to. you might wanna make sure you've typed out your thoguhts before posting as well; but I know I myself often think of stuff to add afterwards; it's just best to check for responses first and if someone has already replied than continue the conversation there.

and it's not that effective as a negotiating tactic to threaten to pull out. it doesn't necessarily help at all; it can anger the other side and make them unwilling to go negotiate, especially when politics is involved. and trump doesn't have the support go follow through on his threats much at all; and it's well known that his threats are empty anyways, so it just makes you look weaker as people ignore the bluster.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16699 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:45:04
August 23 2017 15:43 GMT
#170626
On August 24 2017 00:40 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:34 zlefin wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.

i'm happy with the 1984 US/Canada FT deal. The 1993 NAFTA deal was one of Chretien's few failures.

um, ok. your opinion is noted.
but you being happy with it isn't really much of an indication of anything as to its actual quality or cost/benefits; or the benefits of trade deals and free trade in general.

both trade deals had zero impact on Ontario's willingness to dedicate the necessary boots on the ground to enforce its workplace standards. Ontario's underground economy is blossoming relative to the early 80s..... its a zero regulation, no rules underground economy that is a libertarian's wet dream.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:47:35
August 23 2017 15:46 GMT
#170627
On August 24 2017 00:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:40 zlefin wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:34 zlefin wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.

i'm happy with the 1984 US/Canada FT deal. The 1993 NAFTA deal was one of Chretien's few failures.

um, ok. your opinion is noted.
but you being happy with it isn't really much of an indication of anything as to its actual quality or cost/benefits; or the benefits of trade deals and free trade in general.

both trade deals had zero impact on Ontario's willingness to dedicate the necessary boots on the ground to enforce its workplace standards. Ontario's underground economy is blossoming relative to the early 80s..... its a zero regulation, no rules underground economy that is a libertarian's wet dream.

so? that doesn't change the effects of free trade. that sounds like an entirely domestic matter that it isn't enforcing its own rules.
failure to do their own job doesn't change the effects of free trade much. it's also not the side of the trade deal which would have to concern itself with supporting workplace rules anyways. you were talking about mexico, now you're taling about ontario, if neither side has rules then it makes no difference, the claims are contrary.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 23 2017 15:47 GMT
#170628
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35143 Posts
August 23 2017 15:47 GMT
#170629
On August 24 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:16 Danglars wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:21 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, if everyone looks like a leftist from where you're standing then the odds are good that you're standing pretty far right. Consider the logical implications of the alternative. Half the press would need to be as far right as the furthest right person and the other half would need to be as far left as the furthest left person. Only then would all people see an equally divided press. The fact that you don't see them as equally divided does not show the system has failed, it shows that you're not standing above the central fulcrum.

If everybody looks like a leftist, it might be because only 7% polled identify as Republicans, and the precipitous decline happened in the modern era. Statistics show unhappy logical implications. Science can do that sometimes.

.....
So the middle is always in the middle. That's how it works. It's in the name. Then there is left of centre, and right of centre. These are two equally sized blocs, because, as the name suggests, the centre is in the middle.

What you have just done is attempted to define the right as "Republicans" and then, by showing that there are not many Republicans, attempted to prove that there are far more people left of the centre than there are right of the centre.

That's not just an unhappy logical implication, that's an impossible logical implication. If there is more on one side of the where you think the middle is than there is on the other side, you're wrong about where the middle is.

I'm going to go ahead and propose a rival explanation for you. The political right is bigger than the Republican party. It includes people who don't agree with you on everything. You're just further right than they are and therefore from your perspective they look left to you. This would be fine if we used right and left as individual subjective terms. But we don't. So it's not fine. So you need to stop.

It's like political reverse redshifting.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 23 2017 15:48 GMT
#170630
On August 24 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:16 Danglars wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:21 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, if everyone looks like a leftist from where you're standing then the odds are good that you're standing pretty far right. Consider the logical implications of the alternative. Half the press would need to be as far right as the furthest right person and the other half would need to be as far left as the furthest left person. Only then would all people see an equally divided press. The fact that you don't see them as equally divided does not show the system has failed, it shows that you're not standing above the central fulcrum.

If everybody looks like a leftist, it might be because only 7% polled identify as Republicans, and the precipitous decline happened in the modern era. Statistics show unhappy logical implications. Science can do that sometimes.

.....
So the middle is always in the middle. That's how it works. It's in the name. Then there is left of centre, and right of centre. These are two equally sized blocs, because, as the name suggests, the centre is in the middle.

What you have just done is attempted to define the right as "Republicans" and then, by showing that there are not many Republicans, attempted to prove that there are far more people left of the centre than there are right of the centre.

That's not just an unhappy logical implication, that's an impossible logical implication. If there is more on one side of the where you think the middle is than there is on the other side, you're wrong about where the middle is.

I'm going to go ahead and propose a rival explanation for you. The political right is bigger than the Republican party. It includes people who don't agree with you on everything. You're just further right than they are and therefore from your perspective they look left to you. This would be fine if we used right and left as individual subjective terms. But we don't. So it's not fine. So you need to stop.

So you need to open yourself up to the rival explanation. The Republican Party represents millions of Americans. It holds incredible majorities of governorships and state houses. It trades back control of the House and Senate (recently setting a record for House seats held) and the presidency every few years. But incredible majorities of journalistic talent were fostered in left wing journalism schools and joined their bubbles of opinion in New York and DC. They were then humiliated by missing the Trump phenomenon and blamed everyone but themselves.

Your argument is that since there's always a center, there can never be a bias, therefore there isn't a substantial bias. Sorry, pal. They've set their ideological tent up and now you can watch the fake news roll off the presses (routinely denied here by this forums leftists). It has given Trump wide latitude to lie because they surrendered their trust with too visible of an ideological slant. It's bad for everybody societally-speaking, but simultaneously good for ratings because you can tune in to Trump bashing or media bashing at your leisure.

The president's bad, the media establishment is bad, both parties are insular and poor representatives, the country is more divided than ever, and this seems unlikely to change in the intermediate term. Nobody wins Kwark, but keep pretending your preferred villains are truly villainous and your preferred outlets are fine.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42653 Posts
August 23 2017 15:52 GMT
#170631
I mean all I'm really getting from your rebuttal is "fake news", "liberal colleges", and "out of touch New York elites".
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 23 2017 15:52 GMT
#170632
let's just all try ignoring danglars? I know it's hard to do, for me especially, but he's drunk the koolaid, and ignores reality and reason, there's no gettnig throguh to him and he doens't bring anything useful or insightful to the conversation; mostly he just makes it worse and adds lies and disinformation and a moderate lack of reality. (not quite to noidberg levels, but still pretty bad).
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
August 23 2017 15:54 GMT
#170633
On August 24 2017 00:52 KwarK wrote:
I mean all I'm really getting from your rebuttal is "fake news", "liberal colleges", and "out of touch New York elites".

of which somehow our president is one, maybe even two of these things. if you can consider outright lies as fake news.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 15:54:55
August 23 2017 15:54 GMT
#170634
On August 24 2017 00:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:34 zlefin wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:29 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Trump is helping his negotiation team quite a bit with his "we're pulling out of NAFTA" talk. kudos to "the donald" on that.I really hope NAFTA goes away and there is just a Canada//USA Free Trade deal a la Reagan/Mulroney era deal. i don't want "free trade" with mexico. i don't trust mexico to enforce proper workplace standards.

I don't see how that helps the negotiations at all; adn trade deals usually do more to enforce workplace standards than not having trade deals. You don't seem like you're that familiar iwth the actual effects of trade deals, waht they include, how they work, and what the net benefits/costs are.

Trump is threatening to pull out as a negotiation tactic. he knows Canada needs the US more than the other way around. Great move by Trump.

i'm happy with the 1984 US/Canada FT deal. The 1993 NAFTA deal was one of Chretien's few failures. Primary "blame" rests with Mulroney on deal #2, however, Chretien promised to re-open negotiations and never did. For full context, Mulroney did a nice job with the 1984 US/Canada deal though. in between all this Kim Campbell was all kinds of useless.


Trump's rhetoric on Mexico didn't help as a negotiation tactic at all; it only boxed him in. Mexico could simply say "F U" and Trump looked weak. Now, would Trump really cancel NAFTA? Doubtful, due to the harm and shock caused to the economy, and he probably has a lot of advisors saying not to do it. Canada and Mexico certainly can't be seen to their own voters as capitulating to Trump, so they won't do so, and actually have more of an incentive not to.

It's just silly campaign rhetoric that hamstrung Trump in the real world of political negotiation.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-23 16:05:21
August 23 2017 16:02 GMT
#170635
On August 24 2017 00:48 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:16 Danglars wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:21 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, if everyone looks like a leftist from where you're standing then the odds are good that you're standing pretty far right. Consider the logical implications of the alternative. Half the press would need to be as far right as the furthest right person and the other half would need to be as far left as the furthest left person. Only then would all people see an equally divided press. The fact that you don't see them as equally divided does not show the system has failed, it shows that you're not standing above the central fulcrum.

If everybody looks like a leftist, it might be because only 7% polled identify as Republicans, and the precipitous decline happened in the modern era. Statistics show unhappy logical implications. Science can do that sometimes.

.....
So the middle is always in the middle. That's how it works. It's in the name. Then there is left of centre, and right of centre. These are two equally sized blocs, because, as the name suggests, the centre is in the middle.

What you have just done is attempted to define the right as "Republicans" and then, by showing that there are not many Republicans, attempted to prove that there are far more people left of the centre than there are right of the centre.

That's not just an unhappy logical implication, that's an impossible logical implication. If there is more on one side of the where you think the middle is than there is on the other side, you're wrong about where the middle is.

I'm going to go ahead and propose a rival explanation for you. The political right is bigger than the Republican party. It includes people who don't agree with you on everything. You're just further right than they are and therefore from your perspective they look left to you. This would be fine if we used right and left as individual subjective terms. But we don't. So it's not fine. So you need to stop.

So you need to open yourself up to the rival explanation. The Republican Party represents millions of Americans. It holds incredible majorities of governorships and state houses. It trades back control of the House and Senate (recently setting a record for House seats held) and the presidency every few years. But incredible majorities of journalistic talent were fostered in left wing journalism schools and joined their bubbles of opinion in New York and DC. They were then humiliated by missing the Trump phenomenon and blamed everyone but themselves.

Your argument is that since there's always a center, there can never be a bias, therefore there isn't a substantial bias. Sorry, pal. They've set their ideological tent up and now you can watch the fake news roll off the presses (routinely denied here by this forums leftists). It has given Trump wide latitude to lie because they surrendered their trust with too visible of an ideological slant. It's bad for everybody societally-speaking, but simultaneously good for ratings because you can tune in to Trump bashing or media bashing at your leisure.

The president's bad, the media establishment is bad, both parties are insular and poor representatives, the country is more divided than ever, and this seems unlikely to change in the intermediate term. Nobody wins Kwark, but keep pretending your preferred villains are truly villainous and your preferred outlets are fine.


have you considered the rival rival explanation? that republican principles and policies are largely so intellectually and morally bankrupt that educated, thoughtful people would be too embarrassed to ever identify as such even if they ultimately want to pay lower taxes?

my anecdotal evidence suggests that highly educated conservatives are more likely to identify as independent or even, god forbid, libertarian, than to identify as a republican. its like admitting to being a brain dead simpleton.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 23 2017 16:02 GMT
#170636
On August 24 2017 00:48 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:16 Danglars wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:21 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, if everyone looks like a leftist from where you're standing then the odds are good that you're standing pretty far right. Consider the logical implications of the alternative. Half the press would need to be as far right as the furthest right person and the other half would need to be as far left as the furthest left person. Only then would all people see an equally divided press. The fact that you don't see them as equally divided does not show the system has failed, it shows that you're not standing above the central fulcrum.

If everybody looks like a leftist, it might be because only 7% polled identify as Republicans, and the precipitous decline happened in the modern era. Statistics show unhappy logical implications. Science can do that sometimes.

.....
So the middle is always in the middle. That's how it works. It's in the name. Then there is left of centre, and right of centre. These are two equally sized blocs, because, as the name suggests, the centre is in the middle.

What you have just done is attempted to define the right as "Republicans" and then, by showing that there are not many Republicans, attempted to prove that there are far more people left of the centre than there are right of the centre.

That's not just an unhappy logical implication, that's an impossible logical implication. If there is more on one side of the where you think the middle is than there is on the other side, you're wrong about where the middle is.

I'm going to go ahead and propose a rival explanation for you. The political right is bigger than the Republican party. It includes people who don't agree with you on everything. You're just further right than they are and therefore from your perspective they look left to you. This would be fine if we used right and left as individual subjective terms. But we don't. So it's not fine. So you need to stop.

So you need to open yourself up to the rival explanation. The Republican Party represents millions of Americans. It holds incredible majorities of governorships and state houses. It trades back control of the House and Senate (recently setting a record for House seats held) and the presidency every few years. But incredible majorities of journalistic talent were fostered in left wing journalism schools and joined their bubbles of opinion in New York and DC. They were then humiliated by missing the Trump phenomenon and blamed everyone but themselves.

Your argument is that since there's always a center, there can never be a bias, therefore there isn't a substantial bias. Sorry, pal. They've set their ideological tent up and now you can watch the fake news roll off the presses (routinely denied here by this forums leftists). It has given Trump wide latitude to lie because they surrendered their trust with too visible of an ideological slant. It's bad for everybody societally-speaking, but simultaneously good for ratings because you can tune in to Trump bashing or media bashing at your leisure.

The president's bad, the media establishment is bad, both parties are insular and poor representatives, the country is more divided than ever, and this seems unlikely to change in the intermediate term. Nobody wins Kwark, but keep pretending your preferred villains are truly villainous and your preferred outlets are fine.


Any standing Republicans thought they had by the liberal media's bias was obliterated by their choice of Donald Trump. They jumped completely off the cliff, to the point where their guy says he's passed more legislation than any president since Truman. He does not at all have "wide latitude to lie"; he's much worse on the alternate reality front than the liberal media.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12172 Posts
August 23 2017 16:08 GMT
#170637
On August 24 2017 01:02 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2017 00:48 Danglars wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:
On August 24 2017 00:16 Danglars wrote:
On August 23 2017 23:21 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, if everyone looks like a leftist from where you're standing then the odds are good that you're standing pretty far right. Consider the logical implications of the alternative. Half the press would need to be as far right as the furthest right person and the other half would need to be as far left as the furthest left person. Only then would all people see an equally divided press. The fact that you don't see them as equally divided does not show the system has failed, it shows that you're not standing above the central fulcrum.

If everybody looks like a leftist, it might be because only 7% polled identify as Republicans, and the precipitous decline happened in the modern era. Statistics show unhappy logical implications. Science can do that sometimes.

.....
So the middle is always in the middle. That's how it works. It's in the name. Then there is left of centre, and right of centre. These are two equally sized blocs, because, as the name suggests, the centre is in the middle.

What you have just done is attempted to define the right as "Republicans" and then, by showing that there are not many Republicans, attempted to prove that there are far more people left of the centre than there are right of the centre.

That's not just an unhappy logical implication, that's an impossible logical implication. If there is more on one side of the where you think the middle is than there is on the other side, you're wrong about where the middle is.

I'm going to go ahead and propose a rival explanation for you. The political right is bigger than the Republican party. It includes people who don't agree with you on everything. You're just further right than they are and therefore from your perspective they look left to you. This would be fine if we used right and left as individual subjective terms. But we don't. So it's not fine. So you need to stop.

So you need to open yourself up to the rival explanation. The Republican Party represents millions of Americans. It holds incredible majorities of governorships and state houses. It trades back control of the House and Senate (recently setting a record for House seats held) and the presidency every few years. But incredible majorities of journalistic talent were fostered in left wing journalism schools and joined their bubbles of opinion in New York and DC. They were then humiliated by missing the Trump phenomenon and blamed everyone but themselves.

Your argument is that since there's always a center, there can never be a bias, therefore there isn't a substantial bias. Sorry, pal. They've set their ideological tent up and now you can watch the fake news roll off the presses (routinely denied here by this forums leftists). It has given Trump wide latitude to lie because they surrendered their trust with too visible of an ideological slant. It's bad for everybody societally-speaking, but simultaneously good for ratings because you can tune in to Trump bashing or media bashing at your leisure.

The president's bad, the media establishment is bad, both parties are insular and poor representatives, the country is more divided than ever, and this seems unlikely to change in the intermediate term. Nobody wins Kwark, but keep pretending your preferred villains are truly villainous and your preferred outlets are fine.


have you considered the rival rival explanation? that republican principles and policies are largely so intellectually and morally bankrupt that educated, thoughtful people would be too embarrassed to ever identify as such even if they aso want to pay lower taxes?

my anecdotal evidence suggests that highly educated conservatives are more likely to identify as independent or even, god forbid, libertarian, than to identify as a republican. its like admitting to being a brain dead simpleton.


It's not like this is some sort of elaborate idea either. You could spend 5 minutes looking at republican goals, playbook and arguments and come to this conclusion.
No will to live, no wish to die
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42653 Posts
August 23 2017 16:11 GMT
#170638
Incidentally on the liberal colleges front, had my first lecture with a new professor last night and in his introduction to the course he said he was "skipping" Title IX because he didn't do political correctness. Title IX protects people from discrimination and harassment on the grounds of their sex. Apparently that was too politically correct for him. In the time he saved by skipping Title IX he was able to tell us all about Atlas Shrugged and how it changed his life.

I don't think there is very much crossover between people who believe colleges are a massive liberal indoctrination camp and people who have been to a college.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
August 23 2017 16:15 GMT
#170639
when did he read it? how far along was he before it changed everything?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5583 Posts
August 23 2017 16:19 GMT
#170640
Journalists are not so much intellectuals, although they're educated, as they are a socialite mob with the unique ability to self-appoint themselves to be authorities. As a class, anyway. Most just have no idea about anything, which you can tell if you open a newspaper or turn on the television, it's nearly all garbage. Don Lemon is on CNN telling everyone Trump is trying to start a civil war. The media is a serious enemy of the people and for a lot of reasons that are independent of who the Republican nominee was personally.

On August 24 2017 01:11 KwarK wrote:
Incidentally on the liberal colleges front, had my first lecture with a new professor last night and in his introduction to the course he said he was "skipping" Title IX because he didn't do political correctness. Title IX protects people from discrimination and harassment on the grounds of their sex. Apparently that was too politically correct for him. In the time he saved by skipping Title IX he was able to tell us all about Atlas Shrugged and how it changed his life.

I don't think there is very much crossover between people who believe colleges are a massive liberal indoctrination camp and people who have been to a college.

I hope the first day of your statistics class the professor mentions sample sizes and you can learn why this isn't a rebuttal of large-scale cultural trends.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Prev 1 8530 8531 8532 8533 8534 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 224
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 69
Sexy 57
NaDa 41
ivOry 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1318
League of Legends
Dendi1013
JimRising 332
syndereN168
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe300
Other Games
summit1g15053
tarik_tv6617
Day[9].tv777
shahzam664
ViBE259
C9.Mang0175
ToD153
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 115
• davetesta48
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv777
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
10h 14m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
13h 14m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 13h
CSO Cup
1d 15h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.