• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:47
CET 06:47
KST 14:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.174Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 Evil Geniuses - shutting down REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30 [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine R I P Patrick Stewart European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7739 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8380

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8378 8379 8380 8381 8382 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46626 Posts
August 12 2017 16:41 GMT
#167581
On August 13 2017 01:25 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:11 LegalLord wrote:

She would have bungled things just as well, just a wee bit more subtly. It would look more like strategic mistakes than Twitter rants but the result would be all the same. Let's not forget she is terrible.


Absurd argument. She was SecState, would have a state department, and she would not be threatening nuclear war. There's a huge gap between the two, not a subtle one.


Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 16:45:21
August 12 2017 16:44 GMT
#167582
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 16:49:51
August 12 2017 16:48 GMT
#167583
On August 13 2017 01:09 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:05 zlefin wrote:
I don't see what there is to talk about there. what's there to say/discuss/assess?
not that the google dude needs talking about either, as it's already been solved and analyzed.

Nothing to discuss?

Not even getting into the race issue, this is the largest rally of white supremacist in 30 years, for Virginia. This is on a campus with 17-23 year old students standing against them. This was a precursor to today's planned rally, where 2k-6k racist members could show up today. To protest the removal of a statue. The police haven't moved and inch. The mayor hasn't said a word.

But you're right. Moving on. Let's get back to google dude.

I just don't see anything to discuss. It's newsworthy, sure; but what is there to say/discuss about it?


re: legal/Hillary, the usual nonsense from you, the usual disagreements from me.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 17:07:51
August 12 2017 17:05 GMT
#167584
On August 12 2017 03:12 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2017 02:59 Uldridge wrote:
@Falling: is capital actually getting proportionally into more and more people's hands?
I'm not denying standard of living being higher. I'm talking about the absolute percentage of people who hold x% of the total capital versus the rest that hold y% of the capital. Then and now. Is it? What's the cut off?
For some reason I think that, not because we've constructed a quite reliable society for ourselves, which I'm happy to be a part of, there's an exuberant amount (like literally a hallucinatory amount) of resources unavailable to the general public. If you get a glimpse of the actual wealth the top whatever % of the population actually has, you just start to despair.

So I absolutely would argue that standard of living is higher, likely higher than it has ever been in history.
As for absolute percentage of capital, right now. I highly suspect it has gone down since then. But the argument isn't really what is happening currently (well maybe Hicks would disagree- I have no idea, but as far as I can tell, things have been centralizing for awhile). The argument is in the middle of the 21st Century- at the time when these major thinkers were hammering out their new philosophical ideas- at that point capital accumulation was decentralizing and not centralizing, so more millionaires and so on. I think this is likely true, though I'm open to a counter claim. So then at the time of writing, you had capitalism raising the standard of living for all and more and more millionaires.

At the same time (and this is me elaborating) you saw significant collapses in Marxist regimes- Gulag Archipelago was published in the 70's, for instance (I just read volume 1, fascinating read) which I think was a real bomb shell that shattered the image of success that the Soviets had kept up through their propaganda. And various other Marxist countries were also starting to look more like hell-holes than paradises. At the very least, it seems like this would be a good period to jump ship if one hadn't already.

But it is an argument based on a particular time and not the present.

As for despair when looking at the top... the more I read and hear of lives even from fifty years, the more I am content. My life is sooo much more comfortable, even though I am still renting and can't yet afford a 20% downpayment, and wages of stagnated. My life is still good, way better than any of my ancestors. And the 1%, they can have their billions; I don't want their jobs, their work hours, or their lives. (But I am for a progressive tax code, as long as the top bracket stays south of the 50% mark- so basically the Canadian tax code.)


[image loading]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/07/opinion/leonhardt-income-inequality.html

Edit: that picture is kind of fucked up and I'm too lazy right now to figure out how to fix it. is the original two overlaid pictures?

It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18870 Posts
August 12 2017 17:07 GMT
#167585
We're getting to the point where it becomes impossible not to start having "why do you and a bunch of wannabe nazis like the same thing?"-type conservations with folks who stick to supporting Trump. That or I'm stuck in an endless cycle of American History X breakfast scene repeats.....
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 12 2017 17:16 GMT
#167586
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.
Moderator
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:17 GMT
#167587
On August 13 2017 02:07 farvacola wrote:
We're getting to the point where it becomes impossible not to start having "why do you and a bunch of wannabe nazis like the same thing?"-type conservations with folks who stick to supporting Trump. That or I'm stuck in an endless cycle of American History X breakfast scene repeats.....

It's becoming impossible not to see that the media will heighten and popularize white supremacist movements to try and tar conservatives and some moderates by the same brush. Like I saw when CNN highlighted that the alt-right are the ones mad that Damore got fired. Show us more about how people that disagree with you are a member of a deplorable class of people. You're doing great.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 17:25:12
August 12 2017 17:21 GMT
#167588
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:26 GMT
#167589
On August 13 2017 01:09 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:05 zlefin wrote:
I don't see what there is to talk about there. what's there to say/discuss/assess?
not that the google dude needs talking about either, as it's already been solved and analyzed.

Nothing to discuss?

Not even getting into the race issue, this is the largest rally of white supremacist in 30 years, for Virginia. This is on a campus with 17-23 year old students standing against them. This was a precursor to today's planned rally, where 2k-6k racist members could show up today. To protest the removal of a statue. The police haven't moved and inch. The mayor hasn't said a word.

But you're right. Moving on. Let's get back to google dude.

“This isn’t how he should have to grow up,” she said.

Cliff Erickson leaned against a fence and took in the scene. He said he thinks removing the statue amounts to erasing history and said the “counterprotesters are crazier than the alt-right.”

“Both sides are hoping for a confrontation,” he said.

From the AP story

You're making this a race issue, and you're ignoring other sides that wouldn't want the statue removed. You live there or something? Seriously. It's like your straining to make stories fit your narrative and hope nobody sees you shoehorning one into the other.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18870 Posts
August 12 2017 17:26 GMT
#167590
I don't watch CNN so I can't speak to your irrelevant mention of Damore nor your routine simplisms aimed at the big bad MEDIA that always put you and folks who vote like you into any number of boxes.

This is where you say, "but you actually don't understand my point at all!!"
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 12 2017 17:26 GMT
#167591
I found this a bit humorous but I'm obviously not going g to link directly to it.


In the guide, Anglin kicks off by outlining on a number of occasions “priority number one” for Nazis: “We have to be sexy.”

“We have to be hip and we have to be sexy,” he writes. “This means we have to look good, we have to look dangerous, we have to have humor, we have to look powerful and we have to look like we are in control.”

Anglin then advocates for something he refers to as “Chad Nationalism,” which will apparently “make girls want to be our groupies” and “make us look like bad boys and heroes.”

Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 17:29:18
August 12 2017 17:28 GMT
#167592
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 17:46:23
August 12 2017 17:31 GMT
#167593
On August 13 2017 02:28 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...

we all know voting sadly has little to do with experience, record, qualifications, or fitness. and stop strawmanning; people accept she lost the election, they complain because she should not have in a good system, which sadly we do not have.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:48 GMT
#167594
Walt Disney Co paid $177 million, in addition to insurance recoveries, to settle the closely watched "pink slime" defamation case against its ABC network by Beef Products Inc., a quarterly financial report shows.

(Reuters) - Walt Disney Co paid $177 million, in addition to insurance recoveries, to settle the closely watched "pink slime" defamation case against its ABC network by Beef Products Inc., a quarterly financial report shows.

Privately-held BPI sued American Broadcasting Company (ABC) in 2012 for $5.7 billion, saying it and reporter Jim Avila had defamed the company by using the "pink slime" tag, and making errors and omissions in a series of reports that year.

Disney and BPI, which calls the product "lean finely textured beef," came to an undisclosed settlement in June, 3-1/2 weeks after a trial began in South Dakota, where BPI is based.

Disney reported the settlement of the litigation in a footnote to its financial report, saying it was seeking additional insurance proceeds to recover its cash payment.

The financial tables show a charge of $177 million described as being "in connection with settlement of litigation." The figure is not directly linked to the "pink slime" case, but the BPI litigation is the only one Disney specifies in the report.

Reuters could not immediately reach Disney and an attorney for BPI for comment.

In a statement in June, ABC said it stood by its reporting. After the case was settled, Avila said the company was not retracting his stories or apologizing, and his 2012 "pink slime" reports remained on the ABC News website.

Reuters
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 12 2017 17:50 GMT
#167595
Oh yeah, that whole pink slime matter. I remember briefly looking into it then deciding that I didn't really care enough about processed beef to do anything about it.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
August 12 2017 17:51 GMT
#167596
On August 13 2017 02:28 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...


Yea they saw her and voted for her enough to beat her opposition by millions.
Never Knows Best.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:52 GMT
#167597
On August 13 2017 02:31 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:28 Danglars wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...

we all know voting sadly has little to do with experience, record, qualifications, or fitness. and stop strawmanning; people accept she lost the election, they complain because she should not have in a good system, which sadly we do not have.

I know her record was a major player in why Americans distrusted her to do a good job. I even know that wasn't a very rational reason to prefer an outsider instead (say, in the opposing party's primaries), only a very good and actually stated reason not to vote for her.

And I wasn't exactly expecting everyone to spill the beans to the real reason the Russia stuff was September/November 2016 until today. It's just I was expecting people to be a little more MoveOn-ish with political opposition, combined with thinking a smaller population of #Resist being a little less transparent with their motivations. Compare with the expectation that actual racists won't stand up and say they're racists and tell you why.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:53 GMT
#167598
On August 13 2017 02:50 LegalLord wrote:
Oh yeah, that whole pink slime matter. I remember briefly looking into it then deciding that I didn't really care enough about processed beef to do anything about it.

Justice served as far as I can tell.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 12 2017 17:53 GMT
#167599
On August 13 2017 02:51 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:28 Danglars wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...


Yea they saw her and voted for her enough to beat her opposition by millions.

Good thing the national election is a term of art for 50 separate elections and everybody knew the ground rules going in.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 18:01:30
August 12 2017 18:00 GMT
#167600
On August 13 2017 02:52 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 02:31 zlefin wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:28 Danglars wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:21 LegalLord wrote:
On August 13 2017 02:16 TheYango wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:44 LegalLord wrote:
What's most surprising is that someone could look at the job Hillary did as SoS and say, "I'd like four more years of that." Trump aside.

Lol you can't in the same breath say "people talking about how bad Trump are need to remember how bad Hillary was too" and "Hillary would have been terrible, regardless of how bad Trump is".

Either you appraise both in the lens of the other, or examine both in isolation. I'm no fan of Hillary either as you're well aware, but this is a pretty ridiculous double standard you're applying here.

I mean if you want to say she'd be better, she probably would be. That much is fair. But let's not take the extra step of "she's so qualified, she would do great." Because it's simply not true. Trump was right in his debates: Hillary has many years of experience, but it's experience in failure and badness.

Thinking Trump is an unqualified buffoon does not instantly make his opponent good.

Specific context for which I made that statement:
On August 13 2017 01:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Some American voters: The West Wing and Madam Secretary make me think that Hillary could handle this job pretty well.
Other American voters: I want my country to turn into Celebrity Apprentice.


Trump being bad doesn't mean that Hillary could handle the job well at all.

And Americans saw her experience and record and enough voted otherwise or stayed home. Some people are so attached to her as we chat today that they won't accept the results of the election. He won unfairly because Russia was pulling for him, don't you see, Hillary is the true victor...

we all know voting sadly has little to do with experience, record, qualifications, or fitness. and stop strawmanning; people accept she lost the election, they complain because she should not have in a good system, which sadly we do not have.

I know her record was a major player in why Americans distrusted her to do a good job. I even know that wasn't a very rational reason to prefer an outsider instead (say, in the opposing party's primaries), only a very good and actually stated reason not to vote for her.

And I wasn't exactly expecting everyone to spill the beans to the real reason the Russia stuff was September/November 2016 until today. It's just I was expecting people to be a little more MoveOn-ish with political opposition, combined with thinking a smaller population of #Resist being a little less transparent with their motivations. Compare with the expectation that actual racists won't stand up and say they're racists and tell you why.

most people don't even know what her record is. they only have their own perception of her record, which is often a highly biased and small subset of it (this applies to dems and independents as well); it doens't remotely resemble a rational reason to be so opposed to her.
voting simply doesn't depend much on people's record.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Prev 1 8378 8379 8380 8381 8382 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE145
SortOf 110
Nina 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 6385
GuemChi 1613
ProTech157
Dewaltoss 109
ZergMaN 36
Icarus 8
Noble 6
HiyA 4
Sharp 4
Force[name] 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm198
League of Legends
Doublelift3963
JimRising 647
Other Games
summit1g10024
Coldzera 667
WinterStarcraft461
Sick71
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2117
League of Legends
• Stunt412
Other Games
• Shiphtur423
Upcoming Events
GSL
6h 13m
Epic.LAN
7h 13m
Big Brain Bouts
11h 13m
OSC
16h 13m
Replay Cast
17h 13m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 6h
Epic.LAN
1d 7h
IPSL
1d 10h
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
1d 12h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Yamato Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
3 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-28
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.