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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8382

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35142 Posts
August 12 2017 20:05 GMT
#167621
On August 13 2017 04:58 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:

The groundpotus saw his shadow, 6 more weeks of golf.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 20:13:18
August 12 2017 20:09 GMT
#167622
On August 13 2017 04:48 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 04:10 m4ini wrote:
“Things were getting out of hand in the skirmishes between the alt-right and what I would describe as the outside agitators who wanted to encourage violence,” Toscano said, referring to the counterprotesters.

Asked why police did not act sooner to intervene as violence unfolded, Toscano said he could not comment. But they trained very hard for this and it might have been that they were waiting for a more effective time to get people out” of Emancipation Park, he said.

A group of three dozen self-described “militia” men, who were wearing full camouflage and were armed with long guns, said they were there to help keep the peace, but they also did not break up the fights.



Right. So militias are a thing now too.

edit

Sidenote, while i am not a fan (quite the opposite) of Antifa and other extremists (regardless of left or right) - it strikes me odd that nobody calls this a terror attack. What exactly would be the requisite in the US to do so?

usage of the term terror attack by the media differs somewhat from the criminal statutes labelled terrorism.
I'd also imagine the media is reluctant to use the word terror attack unless it's a known, previously existing, terrorist group (i.e. one that's been formally labelled a terrorist group); or is if it's somehow extremely blatantly announced by the perpetrator that terrorism is the intent. maybe they could get sued or something; that's just a guess though.


Doesn't sound accurate to me.

Sidenote, it's not just the media, it's your politicians too. I specifically asked why "nobody" (official) said it like it is. For a country where the leaders proud themselves in making up terror attacks, or tweet about them when they happen somewhere else/done by a brown person, it strikes me as rather odd.

Lets take, as an example, quite similar attacks on the london bridge. Which were immediately (by US media and politicians) portrayed as "possible terror attack" (edit: before the ethnicity was known even).

I'm trying to give you guys the benefit of the doubt here, because it seems very obvious as to why that's the case.

edit

I was simply guessing to try to answer the question; it is true in general that American media has some very specific rules they use when talking about stuff to avoid lawsuits/liability; like the way they always add "alleged" perpetrator no matter how thorough the evidence is prior to a conviction. so I thought it might be an instance of that.


That's not specific to US media, it's specific to journalism. A "perpetrator" is alleged for as long as he isn't tried/convicted.

They on the other hand do not call him "involved person", they do call him what he is, an alleged perpetrator. In this case there's not even remotely mentioning of a possible terror attack, and i'm pretty sure you know why.

Because it's not perceived as one - even though it certainly should be, because that's what it is.
On track to MA1950A.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
August 12 2017 20:10 GMT
#167623
On August 13 2017 02:26 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 01:09 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 13 2017 01:05 zlefin wrote:
I don't see what there is to talk about there. what's there to say/discuss/assess?
not that the google dude needs talking about either, as it's already been solved and analyzed.

Nothing to discuss?

Not even getting into the race issue, this is the largest rally of white supremacist in 30 years, for Virginia. This is on a campus with 17-23 year old students standing against them. This was a precursor to today's planned rally, where 2k-6k racist members could show up today. To protest the removal of a statue. The police haven't moved and inch. The mayor hasn't said a word.

But you're right. Moving on. Let's get back to google dude.

Show nested quote +
“This isn’t how he should have to grow up,” she said.

Cliff Erickson leaned against a fence and took in the scene. He said he thinks removing the statue amounts to erasing history and said the “counterprotesters are crazier than the alt-right.”

“Both sides are hoping for a confrontation,” he said.

From the AP story

You're making this a race issue, and you're ignoring other sides that wouldn't want the statue removed. You live there or something? Seriously. It's like your straining to make stories fit your narrative and hope nobody sees you shoehorning one into the other.

How am I making this a race issue? It's clearly known that white supremacist are the ones marching to keep the statue. If a moderate wants the statue to stay, or even a black person for whatever reason, they'll protest peacefully and without trying to entice others to start something against them.

Don't try to turn this into something I'm not even remotely talking about. BLM is the same thing. If they go protesting and enticing violence, then I would condemn them as well. There are peaceful ways to go about, alternative solutions to endeavor to find.

MARCHING AROUND WITH TORCHES IN WHITE FUCKING HOODS, PROUDLY PROCLAIMING WHITE SUPREMACY IS NOT THE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

Don't be stupid Danglars. I know you're smarter than that.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
August 12 2017 20:13 GMT
#167624
What a disgusting attack.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
August 12 2017 20:19 GMT
#167625
Bridgewater, New Jersey (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned hate "on many sides" in response to violent white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, that have played out on national television Saturday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said during a short statement. "It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.
Earlier Saturday, Trump, who is on his 17-day vacation in New Jersey, urged people to "come together as one" in response to the protests but did not explicitly mention the white nationalist origins of the conflict.
"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for," he wrote on Twitter. "There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Trump, who also signed a Veterans Affairs health care bill Saturday afternoon, later tweeted: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!"
Demonstrators clashed on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday morning ahead of a white nationalist rally, with counter-protesters and right-wing nationalist groups converging on the college town in the latest chapter in the United States' debate over race and identity.

Source
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 12 2017 20:21 GMT
#167626
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.


Unsurprisingly, no politician wants to antagonise his base.
On track to MA1950A.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 12 2017 20:27 GMT
#167627
On August 13 2017 05:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
Bridgewater, New Jersey (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned hate "on many sides" in response to violent white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, that have played out on national television Saturday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said during a short statement. "It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.
Earlier Saturday, Trump, who is on his 17-day vacation in New Jersey, urged people to "come together as one" in response to the protests but did not explicitly mention the white nationalist origins of the conflict.
"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for," he wrote on Twitter. "There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Trump, who also signed a Veterans Affairs health care bill Saturday afternoon, later tweeted: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!"
Demonstrators clashed on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday morning ahead of a white nationalist rally, with counter-protesters and right-wing nationalist groups converging on the college town in the latest chapter in the United States' debate over race and identity.

Source

Really? When you think Trump cannot sink any lower, he says the ones marching against the white supremists are the ones in display of hatred, bigotry and violence?

As a side note, from across the pond, I never understood why after 9/11, the American reluctance to call white supremist attacks, hate crimes or terrorism, when before they did so.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35142 Posts
August 12 2017 20:32 GMT
#167628
On August 13 2017 05:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 05:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Bridgewater, New Jersey (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned hate "on many sides" in response to violent white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, that have played out on national television Saturday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said during a short statement. "It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.
Earlier Saturday, Trump, who is on his 17-day vacation in New Jersey, urged people to "come together as one" in response to the protests but did not explicitly mention the white nationalist origins of the conflict.
"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for," he wrote on Twitter. "There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Trump, who also signed a Veterans Affairs health care bill Saturday afternoon, later tweeted: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!"
Demonstrators clashed on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday morning ahead of a white nationalist rally, with counter-protesters and right-wing nationalist groups converging on the college town in the latest chapter in the United States' debate over race and identity.

Source

Really? When you think Trump cannot sink any lower, he says the ones marching against the white supremists are the ones in display of hatred, bigotry and violence?

As a side note, from across the pond, I never understood why after 9/11, the American reluctance to call white supremist attacks, hate crimes or terrorism, when before they did so.

It's a shell game. Makes it easy to shift the blame from the poor fighting amongst themselves to fighting against "others".
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 12 2017 20:34 GMT
#167629
What is a shell game?
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 20:36:24
August 12 2017 20:36 GMT
#167630
On August 13 2017 05:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What is a shell game?

Shell Game:: a game involving sleight of hand, in which three inverted cups or nutshells are moved about, and contestants must spot which is the one with a pea or other object underneath.
a deceptive and evasive action or ploy, especially a political one.
plural noun: shell games
"officials played a shell game by loading prisoners onto buses during population counts at the jail"
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 20:40:08
August 12 2017 20:37 GMT
#167631
On August 13 2017 05:32 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 05:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On August 13 2017 05:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Bridgewater, New Jersey (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned hate "on many sides" in response to violent white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, that have played out on national television Saturday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said during a short statement. "It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.
Earlier Saturday, Trump, who is on his 17-day vacation in New Jersey, urged people to "come together as one" in response to the protests but did not explicitly mention the white nationalist origins of the conflict.
"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for," he wrote on Twitter. "There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Trump, who also signed a Veterans Affairs health care bill Saturday afternoon, later tweeted: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!"
Demonstrators clashed on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday morning ahead of a white nationalist rally, with counter-protesters and right-wing nationalist groups converging on the college town in the latest chapter in the United States' debate over race and identity.

Source

Really? When you think Trump cannot sink any lower, he says the ones marching against the white supremists are the ones in display of hatred, bigotry and violence?

As a side note, from across the pond, I never understood why after 9/11, the American reluctance to call white supremist attacks, hate crimes or terrorism, when before they did so.

It's a shell game. Makes it easy to shift the blame from the poor fighting amongst themselves to fighting against "others".


This is exactly the answer.

On August 13 2017 05:34 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What is a shell game?


Also known as Three Card Monte
LiquidDota Staff
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 21:12:59
August 12 2017 21:11 GMT
#167632
I think we lost something in translation. I know what a shell game is, I don't understand the metaphor.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 12 2017 21:12 GMT
#167633
On August 13 2017 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I think I lost something in translation.


Don't worry, not just you.
On track to MA1950A.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
August 12 2017 21:13 GMT
#167634
On August 13 2017 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I think I lost something in translation.

Continuously shift/change who the blame belongs to, in the hopes no one knows the difference/truth and continue to exploit them.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 12 2017 21:13 GMT
#167635
Must be one of them American things that don't translate. Kwark, pls translate.
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 21:24:13
August 12 2017 21:14 GMT
#167636
Nevermind
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-12 21:18:19
August 12 2017 21:18 GMT
#167637
On August 13 2017 06:14 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2017 05:27 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
On August 13 2017 05:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Bridgewater, New Jersey (CNN)President Donald Trump condemned hate "on many sides" in response to violent white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Virginia, that have played out on national television Saturday.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said during a short statement. "It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."
He did not mention white nationalists and the alt-right movement in his remarks.
Earlier Saturday, Trump, who is on his 17-day vacation in New Jersey, urged people to "come together as one" in response to the protests but did not explicitly mention the white nationalist origins of the conflict.
"We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for," he wrote on Twitter. "There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one!"
Trump, who also signed a Veterans Affairs health care bill Saturday afternoon, later tweeted: "Am in Bedminster for meetings & press conference on V.A. & all that we have done, and are doing, to make it better-but Charlottesville sad!"
Demonstrators clashed on the streets of Charlottesville on Saturday morning ahead of a white nationalist rally, with counter-protesters and right-wing nationalist groups converging on the college town in the latest chapter in the United States' debate over race and identity.

Source

Really? When you think Trump cannot sink any lower, he says the ones marching against the white supremists are the ones in display of hatred, bigotry and violence?

I mean, he condemned hate. Obviously a white supremacist group is more associated with hate than the counter-protesters. This is reminiscent of when conservatives were mad Obama wouldn't use the phrase "radical Islamic terror."


The phrase wasn't "radical islamic terror" but just "islamic terror", and he was quite right in that. That conservatives are too bigoted to understand why has nothing to do with the issue, it's in fact the root of it.
On track to MA1950A.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
August 12 2017 21:21 GMT
#167638
This thread is massively on point.

LiquidDota Staff
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21664 Posts
August 12 2017 21:23 GMT
#167639
On August 13 2017 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I think we lost something in translation. I know what a shell game is, I don't understand the metaphor.

They no longer talk about hate crimes because they are not the enemy anymore, the enemy are Muslims. In other to keep people focused on what you want you only mention one enemy and try to ignore 'lesser' enemies.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 12 2017 21:28 GMT
#167640
On August 13 2017 06:21 OuchyDathurts wrote:
This thread is massively on point.

https://twitter.com/JuliusGoat/status/896326301832925184


Well to be fair, the guy on the left will certainly know what oppression is.
On track to MA1950A.
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