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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

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crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
July 27 2017 00:42 GMT
#164081
What is the consensus on this Scaramucci guy? From what I saw earlier he was a very, very vocal anti-Trump guy and is very successful in his own right. Why is he now shilling for Trump and sacrificing most (if not all) of his own personal integrity?

What's the deal?
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 27 2017 00:43 GMT
#164082
On July 27 2017 09:42 crms wrote:
What is the consensus on this Scaramucci guy? From what I saw earlier he was a very, very vocal anti-Trump guy and is very successful in his own right. Why is he now shilling for Trump and sacrificing most (if not all) of his own personal integrity?

What's the deal?


Money and power, what else?
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21709 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 00:45:33
July 27 2017 00:44 GMT
#164083
On July 27 2017 09:02 mozoku wrote:
There's no two year delay on the skinny repeal? I assumed there was still, and they were going to make into a real bill before it went into action.

Are they really going to put forward a "plan" that has no cohesive framework? That sounds like electoral suicide. There's now way that'll pass.

That said, I'm still trying to figure out why the media assessments of these focus on the change in the number of uninsured patients. Obamacare is literally mandatory insurance; of course the new plan is going to have the number of uninsured rise. The point is to make give patients them the choice of whether they want to purchase health insurance and to make the system more efficient.

I'm not at all claiming that the GOP bill does that or that's necessarily the correct way to go (my relatively uninformed opinion is that the ACA seems preferable), but comparing the bills by number of uninsured is still a totally slanted way for the media to cover the healthcare bills.

Are they going to put forward a plan with no framework?
Have you been paying attention to what they have been doing for the last 7 years?
They do not have a plan. Its a shocker I know but we have known they do not have a plan for years now. Healthcare in the US has come close to a total collapse several times during recent years where a Supreme Court decision in the other direction would have left the country with nothing.

And the focus on number of uninsured makes a lot of sense. People need healthcare, with or without insurance because we as a society no longer accept that people should be left to die in the gutter because they can't afford emergency care.
So the ER saves them for free. Which is totaly not free but many times more expensive then timely medical care and everyone ends up picking up the tab because the hospitals raise their prices to cover ER costs.

Plus health insurance works by having the largest possible risk pool. So that healthy young people end up paying more then they use so that sick old people can get the aid they need. And then when those youngsters inevitably get old the next generation is there ect.
If you only have sick people on health insurance the premiums skyrocket. Thats why every plan that scraps the mandate shows a MASSIVE premium increase. often up to higher then peoples actual income.

Every other western nation, all of which have better and cheaper healthcare for the average Joe then the US, have mandatory health insurance for a reason.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
rageprotosscheesy
Profile Joined June 2017
36 Posts
July 27 2017 00:52 GMT
#164084
On July 27 2017 09:42 crms wrote:
What is the consensus on this Scaramucci guy? From what I saw earlier he was a very, very vocal anti-Trump guy and is very successful in his own right. Why is he now shilling for Trump and sacrificing most (if not all) of his own personal integrity?

What's the deal?


He's a New York huckster. If Trump's giving him power and money, he'll take it.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 00:53:10
July 27 2017 00:52 GMT
#164085
If anything has been predictable in the chaos of the early Trump presidency, it’s the unstinting support he has received from Breitbart News.

Until now.

In recent days, Trump has attacked the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, on Twitter and in an interview with the New York Times over his recusal from oversight of the investigation into Trump’s possible Russian connections. As a result, there has been widespread speculation that Trump might fire his attorney general, or that, faced with an untenable position, Sessions might resign.

Trump’s public attacks on Sessions seem to be alienating the website that gave him his chief strategist Steve Bannon, and helped him into the White House.

And on Tuesday, Breitbart bit back.

Adam Shaw skewered Trump’s “hypocrisy” in calling Sessions “weak” on legal moves against Hillary Clinton, reminding readers that Sessions was “one of the vital pillars of Trump’s immigration agenda”. He argued that Sessions has been responsible for “some of the most significant achievements of Trump’s young administration”, such as pushing the “Muslim travel ban” forward, and coming down hard on sanctuary cities.

Another article went into more detail about Sessions’ alleged achievements in office, promoting his prosecutorial crackdown on illegal immigration as well as his winding back of Obama-era restraints on local law enforcement.

So why is Sessions such an untouchable figure in the eyes of Breitbart?

Dan Cassino, a political scientist and expert on conservative media, says Breitbart is protecting Sessions because “he is a trusted broker for people on the far right on immigration”. On top of Trump’s failure to address totemic election promises, such as a border wall, Trump’s shots across Sessions’ bow are seen as “an indication that the nationalist wing – including Bannon – is losing influence in the White House to new players like [White House communications director] Anthony Scaramucci”.

Joseph Lowndes, a political scientist at the University of Oregon and the author of a book about modern conservatism, says Breitbart’s latest take reflects the fact that while Trump’s early presidency has been hemmed in by Congress, the courts, federal agencies and its own incompetence, the attorney general’s office is one of the few areas where the administration has been able to “step on the gas” and deliver “the red meat of Trumpism”.

But he notes that Breitbart’s affection for Sessions goes deeper, and speaks to shared values.

In the half-decade following founder Andrew Breitbart’s death – mostly under Steve Bannon’s tutelage – the website has adopted a harder line on immigration. Lowndes says they “saw [Sessions] very early on as their kind of politician”, an unbending Washington outsider with a “distinct whiff of white nationalism”.

Sessions first came to national prominence when his prospective appointment as a federal judge was blocked after former colleagues said he had made racially charged remarks while working as a prosecutor. He arrived in Washington in 1997 as only the second Republican Alabama senator since Reconstruction.

Politically active from the late 1960s, Sessions was, according to Lowndes, a member of the “first generation of southerners who moved into the GOP instead of the Democrats”, and is representative of the moment the modern right took “a sharp racial turn”.

Since the election of George W Bush, however – when the GOP sought to soften its image as the party of white America – Sessions’ politics saw him relegated to the margins of Senate politics.

“There’s a certain rectitude in his commitments – from racially inflected law-and-order policies, to harsh restrictionism on immigration,” Lowndes said.

This inflexibility made him a minor player until the rise of Trump, who he supported early and to whom he gifted a staffer, Stephen Miller, who helped hone Trump’s project and message. Now, Lowndes says, “alt-right people embrace him. They see him as a principled nativist.”

Both Lowndes and Cassino agree there isn’t much Breitbart can do if Trump decides to fire their man. Cassino says “if – or when – Trump fires Sessions, there will be some hand-wringing, but when push comes to shove I can’t imagine them abandoning Trump”.

Lowndes compares their position to the evangelical right during the Reagan years, who complained constantly about the raw deal they were getting but who really had nowhere else to go. He says that if Sessions is sacked, “Breitbart will hammer away at him for it, but while he’s in office, their power to discredit Trump is diminished”.

Beyond Breitbart, other erstwhile loyalists are seriously questioning Trump – some for the first time.

Primetime Fox News host Tucker Carlson blasted Trump on Tuesday night, saying the attorney general had been “humiliated” by his boss. He argued that Trump dumping Sessions would only please the left.

Influential talkshow host Mark Levin, formerly a Ted Cruz guy who has warmed to the president, also called on Trump to back off. On Facebook, he praised Sessions effusively: “He was the first senator to endorse you. He campaigned for you. He left the Senate to serve you.”

Whether or not Trump fires Sessions, at least a few of his media supporters haven’t strayed. Alex Jones remains loyal as a puppy, and his Infowars outlet is preparing the ground for Sessions to go by calling him “ineffective”.

How long can he keep dividing his most ardent supporters and failing to address their concerns? We may find out sooner than we expected.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 27 2017 01:02 GMT
#164086




My god, please do this Trump. You will be at war with the senate for the next 3 years.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 27 2017 01:03 GMT
#164087
Sessions will not leave this is the most powerful he will ever be and he is going to ram as much neo-confederate acts he possibly can.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 27 2017 01:14 GMT
#164088
I kind of want to see that happen just so I can watch the response from Richard Painter. It would probably start an actual Constitutional Crises though
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:19:33
July 27 2017 01:17 GMT
#164089
On July 27 2017 09:44 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 09:02 mozoku wrote:
There's no two year delay on the skinny repeal? I assumed there was still, and they were going to make into a real bill before it went into action.

Are they really going to put forward a "plan" that has no cohesive framework? That sounds like electoral suicide. There's now way that'll pass.

That said, I'm still trying to figure out why the media assessments of these focus on the change in the number of uninsured patients. Obamacare is literally mandatory insurance; of course the new plan is going to have the number of uninsured rise. The point is to make give patients them the choice of whether they want to purchase health insurance and to make the system more efficient.

I'm not at all claiming that the GOP bill does that or that's necessarily the correct way to go (my relatively uninformed opinion is that the ACA seems preferable), but comparing the bills by number of uninsured is still a totally slanted way for the media to cover the healthcare bills.

Are they going to put forward a plan with no framework?
Have you been paying attention to what they have been doing for the last 7 years?
They do not have a plan. Its a shocker I know but we have known they do not have a plan for years now. Healthcare in the US has come close to a total collapse several times during recent years where a Supreme Court decision in the other direction would have left the country with nothing.

And the focus on number of uninsured makes a lot of sense. People need healthcare, with or without insurance because we as a society no longer accept that people should be left to die in the gutter because they can't afford emergency care.
So the ER saves them for free. Which is totaly not free but many times more expensive then timely medical care and everyone ends up picking up the tab because the hospitals raise their prices to cover ER costs.

Plus health insurance works by having the largest possible risk pool. So that healthy young people end up paying more then they use so that sick old people can get the aid they need. And then when those youngsters inevitably get old the next generation is there ect.
If you only have sick people on health insurance the premiums skyrocket. Thats why every plan that scraps the mandate shows a MASSIVE premium increase. often up to higher then peoples actual income.

Every other western nation, all of which have better and cheaper healthcare for the average Joe then the US, have mandatory health insurance for a reason.

How many policy plans have the Democrats come up with since November? I can tell you. Zero. Because that's what opposition parties do. They oppose. It makes no political sense to outline policies while you're an opposition party. Attacking the other party is sufficient to win elections. Putting out your own policies is only a vulnerability. This isn't unique to Republicans, no matter how much your partisan slant wants you to believe it is.

The bill almost certainly won't pass because the GOP realizes it's an electoral disaster. The only real idiocy here (this healthcare charade in Congress is merely politics) is Trump defunding the ACA so he can gain try to motivate Congress to give him a signing ceremony where he can take credit for doing something (at the expense of people's health). Otherwise we'd be exactly where we were year ago--with a bad and deteriorating healthcare system, but one that's not abjectly broken.

Large risk pools don't provide anything except redistribution of healthcare costs. Whether that's desirable is purely a function of your views on the merits of redistribution. Quit trying to pawn it off as objectively better policy--that's just you projecting your ideology on to others.

While I'm personally willing contribute to redistribution (to my own disadvantage), I don't have an expectation that everyone else must hold the same view. Even if I am sick, I am not entitled to someone else's money to pay for my medical costs.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42784 Posts
July 27 2017 01:22 GMT
#164090
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:26:33
July 27 2017 01:23 GMT
#164091
The democrats have plans. This process is specifically designed to exclude them and the public. You don't get to blame them this time around. Obamas gone. The democrats are not in power. The GOP straight up pitched you something they couldn't deliver. You only have yourself to blame for believing they had a plan beyond cutting 32 million people's healthcare.

On July 27 2017 10:22 KwarK wrote:
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.

I believe they said "We can fix the ACA and rename it to whatever the GOP wants. We can even say it was repealed in the process." The democrats have wanted to fix parts of the ACA since 2010.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:33:30
July 27 2017 01:27 GMT
#164092
On July 27 2017 10:22 KwarK wrote:
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.

Last time I checked, the general consensus on the Left is that Obamacare needs work. I don't recall hearing them putting any specific proposals forth though. Weird, huh? I wonder why an opposition party would not dedicate a significant share of its resources to policy research when they're sitting on the legislative sidelines and there's an election next year.

Nah, only Republicans focus on politics. Democrats are out there for the warm feelies obviously, so we can rest assured they're hard at work coming up with ways to save the world. /s

On July 27 2017 10:23 Plansix wrote:
The democrats have plans. This process is specifically designed to exclude them and the public. You don't get to blame them this time around. Obamas gone. The democrats are not in power. The GOP straight up pitched you something they couldn't deliver. You only have yourself to blame for believing they had a plan beyond cutting 32 million people's healthcare.

Don't lump me with the morons that are still blaming Obama and Hillary for the GOP's legislative problems, please. Nor did I support the GOP's "Repeal Obamacare" rallying cry from 2009-2015.

That's a valid shot at the median Republican though.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 27 2017 01:29 GMT
#164093
On July 27 2017 10:17 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 09:44 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 27 2017 09:02 mozoku wrote:
There's no two year delay on the skinny repeal? I assumed there was still, and they were going to make into a real bill before it went into action.

Are they really going to put forward a "plan" that has no cohesive framework? That sounds like electoral suicide. There's now way that'll pass.

That said, I'm still trying to figure out why the media assessments of these focus on the change in the number of uninsured patients. Obamacare is literally mandatory insurance; of course the new plan is going to have the number of uninsured rise. The point is to make give patients them the choice of whether they want to purchase health insurance and to make the system more efficient.

I'm not at all claiming that the GOP bill does that or that's necessarily the correct way to go (my relatively uninformed opinion is that the ACA seems preferable), but comparing the bills by number of uninsured is still a totally slanted way for the media to cover the healthcare bills.

Are they going to put forward a plan with no framework?
Have you been paying attention to what they have been doing for the last 7 years?
They do not have a plan. Its a shocker I know but we have known they do not have a plan for years now. Healthcare in the US has come close to a total collapse several times during recent years where a Supreme Court decision in the other direction would have left the country with nothing.

And the focus on number of uninsured makes a lot of sense. People need healthcare, with or without insurance because we as a society no longer accept that people should be left to die in the gutter because they can't afford emergency care.
So the ER saves them for free. Which is totaly not free but many times more expensive then timely medical care and everyone ends up picking up the tab because the hospitals raise their prices to cover ER costs.

Plus health insurance works by having the largest possible risk pool. So that healthy young people end up paying more then they use so that sick old people can get the aid they need. And then when those youngsters inevitably get old the next generation is there ect.
If you only have sick people on health insurance the premiums skyrocket. Thats why every plan that scraps the mandate shows a MASSIVE premium increase. often up to higher then peoples actual income.

Every other western nation, all of which have better and cheaper healthcare for the average Joe then the US, have mandatory health insurance for a reason.

How many policy plans have the Democrats come up with since November? I can tell you. Zero. Because that's what opposition parties do. They oppose. It makes no political sense to outline policies while you're an opposition party. Attacking the other party is sufficient to win elections. Putting out your own policies is only a vulnerability. This isn't unique to Republicans, no matter how much your partisan slant wants you to believe it is.

The Democrats haven't had to do any opposing, I expected better than just parroting Trump's insane ramblings. The Democrats are opposing Trump and the Republicans as much a sober person needs to oppose someone fall-on-ass drunk. The Republicans are in total disarray, and have spent the last 8 years promising something they had no plan for. Democrats have been voting against their bills because they're simply awful, even some Republicans have refused to vote for them. Partisan politics are at an all-time high, but you can't blame Democrats for this shitshow. Republicans have control of every branch. They have no excuse.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 27 2017 01:30 GMT
#164094
When their actually asked they give lots of ideas.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:31:38
July 27 2017 01:31 GMT
#164095
On July 27 2017 10:22 KwarK wrote:
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.

Yeah after all democrats already came up with the ACA that was their plan which was torn down in various wars by republicans, which is what we have today. If i was a congressmen that was around when the ACA was passed, it's petty but that'd be my stance. I would want to fix parts of the ACA but to a fake show and fanfare of repeal and replace i'd have nothing to do with that, i'd say my job was already done. Be willing to work to fix the ACA but not to repeal and replace.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:36:03
July 27 2017 01:32 GMT
#164096
On July 27 2017 10:27 mozoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 10:22 KwarK wrote:
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.

Last time I checked, the general consensus on the Left is that Obamacare needs work. I don't recall hearing them putting any specific proposals forth though. Weird, huh? I wonder why an opposition party would not dedicate a significant share of its resources to policy research when they're sitting on the legislative sidelines and there's an election next year.

Nah, only Republicans focus on politics. Democrats are out there for the warm feelies obviously, so we can rest assured they're hard at work coming up with ways to save the world. /s

Do you have even the slightest understanding how legislation is created in Congress? The democrats cannot add amendments to this bill. They don't have the votes....

Edit: I will lump you in with whatever groups of poorly informed political whiners I please. Your claim that the democrats have no ideas is either idiotic or you just don't pay attention.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
July 27 2017 01:34 GMT
#164097
Ben Cardin tried to propose his own health care bill and literally nobody cares.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 27 2017 01:36 GMT
#164098
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 27 2017 01:38 GMT
#164099
On July 27 2017 10:34 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Ben Cardin tried to propose his own health care bill and literally nobody cares.

The haster rule is still in place. The minority party in the house couldn't bring a bill forward even if they had the votes. The speaker controls what bills advance.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-27 01:43:08
July 27 2017 01:41 GMT
#164100
On July 27 2017 10:32 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 10:27 mozoku wrote:
On July 27 2017 10:22 KwarK wrote:
It's possible that the Democrats aren't trying as hard to come up with ideas for how to repeal and replace Obamacare deliberately.

Last time I checked, the general consensus on the Left is that Obamacare needs work. I don't recall hearing them putting any specific proposals forth though. Weird, huh? I wonder why an opposition party would not dedicate a significant share of its resources to policy research when they're sitting on the legislative sidelines and there's an election next year.

Nah, only Republicans focus on politics. Democrats are out there for the warm feelies obviously, so we can rest assured they're hard at work coming up with ways to save the world. /s

Do you have even the slightest understanding how legislation is created in Congress? The democrats cannot add amendments to this bill. They don't have the votes....

Edit: I will lump you in with whatever groups of poorly informed political whiners I please. Your claim that the democrats have no ideas is either idiotic or you just don't pay attention.

while i'm not fond of plansix, I gotta agree with him here mozoku.
just beacuse YOU haven't heard about democratic proposals doesn't mean they aren't out there. people barely read about policy in general, even less so when much juicier stuff is around. policy proposals do exist out there, that aren't talked about because they have no chance of happening while republicans control the government, and cuz so much other stuff is happening.
relying in what YOUVE heard about is an INCREDIBLY terrible metric generally speaking, because unless oyu know what to look for and go out of oyur way to look for it, you won't find such things. alot of things happen that are known but aren't talked about a great deal.
it's very clear that you're simply being partisan mozoku and haven't paid actual attention.

edit: by gods my typing is terrible, I have way too many typos.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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