US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8159

On July 23 2017 05:15 ChristianS wrote:
Assuming he's guilty, how is perjury not a big deal? I seem to recall Republicans feeling very, very strongly about the importance if perjury not too long ago.

If he's not guilty that's another matter, but if you're saying "sure he lied under oath, but nbd," ...isn't that a felony?

On July 23 2017 05:17 Introvert wrote:


I don't know if anyone is saying that.

On July 23 2017 04:15 GreenHorizons wrote:


Wells Fargo was lying to, committing identity theft of, and defrauding millions of customers. Millions of Americans wake up and deposit money into their accounts every month.

Think about that. A bank got caught red handed stealing it's customers money (after the financial sector nearly imploded the economy) and people keep giving them MORE of their money.

If you think a couple convoluted lies are enough I don't think you are familiar with the people who still think this isn't problematic.

EDIT: If Wells Fargo was your best friend/brother you probably would disown him, but if they are your bank, ~80%+ of people think "nah, I'll forgive them, just an honest mistake"

On July 23 2017 04:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


He's taken off work nearly a quarter of the days he's been in office, and he can't be that busy if every day he's on Twitter and we consistently hear about how he can't be bothered to read reports or go to meetings.

President of the United States is an important job and should be taken seriously. He's not taking it seriously, which is why nothing's getting done. Obama and Bush took it seriously.

On July 23 2017 05:20 Tachion wrote:

LL just did like two posts above that dude

On July 23 2017 04:15 GreenHorizons wrote:


Wells Fargo was lying to, committing identity theft of, and defrauding millions of customers. Millions of Americans wake up and deposit money into their accounts every month.

Think about that. A bank got caught red handed stealing it's customers money (after the financial sector nearly imploded the economy) and people keep giving them MORE of their money.

If you think a couple convoluted lies are enough I don't think you are familiar with the people who still think this isn't problematic.

EDIT: If Wells Fargo was your best friend/brother you probably would disown him, but if they are your bank, ~80%+ of people think "nah, I'll forgive them, just an honest mistake"

On July 23 2017 04:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


He's taken off work nearly a quarter of the days he's been in office, and he can't be that busy if every day he's on Twitter and we consistently hear about how he can't be bothered to read reports or go to meetings.

President of the United States is an important job and should be taken seriously. He's not taking it seriously, which is why nothing's getting done. Obama and Bush took it seriously.

On July 23 2017 05:10 zlefin wrote:

I don't mind them taking lots of time off; I just dislike the hypocrisy when people complain about one side doing it but not the other (or themselves), and similar such hypocrisies. it seems reasonable to point out hypocrisies in how people deal with things. not that I'm sure that applies to the specific quotes in here; just on the general principle of the golf issue.

On July 23 2017 05:20 mozoku wrote:

Comparing what Wells Fargo was doing (which was wrong) to what a typical street identity theft is silly.

When Wells Fargo opened an account without the customer's approval, it just sat at zero balance in pretty much all cases. There were occasionally fees associated with the fake accounts. Of the 85,000 fees accounts that incurred fees, the fees totaled $2M. That's an average of $23.53 per account that incurred, or about a dollar or two per each of the fake account total (i.e. including fee and non-fee accounts). It probably affected some credit scores as well.

It's been established (for a bunch of reasons) that the intent was not to steal customer money, but the fake accounts were the result of overly high sales targets for bankers from a sales-first culture and some willful ignorance on the part of middle management, and maybe upper management. I'm not sure if you're aware, but an extra $2M in revenue is probably a rounding error for Wells Fargo.

Most of their customers were unaffected, and Wells Fargo paid $110M to consumers who had fake accounts opened. The cost of the reputational damage to Wells Fargo almost certainly exceeds the $110M.

If this was an attempt to steal money by Wells Fargo's upper management, it was the least rational attempt to do so that I've ever heard of.

If you're a remotely rational consumer, you can see why Wells Fargo is still a perfectly fine place to bank at even after the scandal.


Yeah, he's a bad president. But it's not because he takes vacations. So let's move on to criticizing the hundreds of real issues there are with his presidency.

On July 23 2017 05:28 Tachion wrote:

People criticize his vacation/golf time so much because of the lies and hypocrisy Trump has exhibited about it from past statements. He personally criticized Obama A LOT for his golf games, and has said he wouldn't take vacations as president. Then he turns out to be so much worse.

On July 23 2017 05:38 NewSunshine wrote:
It's just foreign to me that someone could think that Trump's "unpresidented" amount of time on a golf course has nothing to do with the rampant incompetence of his administration. It's been 41 days so far. Well over 1 full month. Barely 6 months in. When he's been dragging his ass filling hundreds of positions across several government agencies, and what he has attempted to do has all failed spectacularly, I don't see what merits so much vacation time. If you're trying to pretend it was the same with Bush and Obama, I have a bridge to sell you.

It's a very simple idea. The man leads my country, I want him to be doing his job from time to time.

On July 23 2017 05:38 NewSunshine wrote:
It's just foreign to me that someone could think that Trump's "unpresidented" amount of time on a golf course has nothing to do with the rampant incompetence of his administration. It's been 41 days so far. Well over 1 full month. Barely 6 months in. When he's been dragging his ass filling hundreds of positions across several government agencies, and what he has attempted to do has all failed spectacularly, I don't see what merits so much vacation time.

On July 23 2017 05:48 mozoku wrote:

In terms of vacation time, Trump's vacations are not unprecedented (assuming you extrapolate what he's done so far). They're closer to the middle, though above average. They are more costly, but that's not the argument you've been making.

Source

On July 23 2017 06:05 Buckyman wrote:


Trump's appointing people faster than the Senate confirms them. If you want to point a finger at regarding the unfilled positions, point it at the Senate.

On July 23 2017 06:05 TheTenthDoc wrote:


That wiki page only lists vacations for four presidents and vacation days for 10. So I hope you aren't suggesting it shows anything?

I'd be more interested to see vacation days in the first 180 days, anyway, which as far as I know isn't reported anywhere.

Since taking office, President Obama has made 11 visits to Camp David, spanning all or part of 27 days. They're mostly weekends and cannot fairly be counted as vacations.

His immediate predecessor was more inclined to take a break from the confines of the White House. Our CBS News tally shows President George W. Bush made 9 visits to his Texas ranch, spending all or part of 69 days there during his first year in office. Mr. Bush also made 25 visits to Camp David in 2001 totaling 78 days. And he spent a four-day weekend at his folks' place in Kennebunkport, Maine that year.

During Ronald Reagan's fist year in office, he made seven trips west to his California ranch, spending all or part of 42 days there. He also spent 57 days at Camp David in 1989, having made 19 visits to the presidential retreat in Maryland's Catoctin Mountains, most of them weekend respites. The Reagans also spent three or four days every year in Palm Springs, Calif., as New Year's guests at the estate of friend and philanthropist Walter Annenberg.

Jimmy Carter spent 19 days on "vacation" during his first year as president – most of the time at his home in Plains, Ga.

Donald Trump's plan to bring back coal appeared to take a hit when a Texan power plant revealed it was making around 70 workers redundant because the fossil fuel not making money.

The US President said he had "ended the war on coal" last month as he vowed to dismantle "job-killing" Environmental Protection Agency regulations and put miners back to work.

He has outlined plans to shift the US away from renewable energy through proposed budget cuts after controversially withdrawing from the landmark Paris agreement on climate change on 1 June.

But the price of coal remains so high that the Texas Municipal Power Agency (TMPA) said it will have to lay off around 70 workers from a coal-fired electrical plant at Gibbons Creek, Anderson, during the winter months.

The agency claimed it was not economical to keep the facility running all year round and said it would only keep it fully operational between June and September, according to KBTX-TV.

Around 20 people will reportedly stay to maintain safety standards throughout the rest of the year.

The TMPA has been trying to sell the power plant for more than a year and will have to decide whether to shut it down completely if a buyer is not found by September 2018.

The news will come as a blow for Mr Trump, who declared that “the golden era of American energy is now underway” at an event called Unleashing American Energy last month.

The President told energy executives and labour union leaders: “You've gone through eight years of hell.

“We are putting the coal miners back to work just like I promised.

“We are ending the intrusive [Environmental Protection Agency] regulations that raise the price of energy so substantially.”

A global oversupply of oil has actually kept prices of the commodity down in recent years, and the Trump administration’s push for gas exports is likely to continue facing a market glut.

He has already approved the sale of more American natural gas to South Korea as well as the construction of a new petroleum pipeline to Mexico.

“That'll go right under the wall,” Mr Trump joked, referring to the 74-mile long wall he hopes to build along the US-Mexico border.

Mr Trump also intends to approve two applications to export natural gas from the Lake Charles liquefied natural gas terminal in Louisiana and open up a new offshore oil and gas leasing programme.

He said: “We have so much more [energy] than we ever thought possible...We don't want to let other countries take away our sovereignty and tell us what to do...We will be dominant. We will export American energy all around the globe...Job-killing regulations are being removed...like you've never seen before.”

Mr Trump said the Paris Accord had hurt the coal industry and claimed it would prove “too costly” for the country to stick to the agreement to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Thirteen states and more than two hundred city mayors have pledged to abide by the Paris goals, despite the President's decision to withdraw from the agreement.

New money in renewable energy outpaced new investments in fossil fuels for the first time in 2015 to the tune of $350bn.

That wiki page only lists vacations for four presidents and vacation days for 10. So I hope you aren't suggesting it shows anything?

I'd be more interested to see vacation days in the first 180 days, anyway, which as far as I know isn't reported anywhere.

On July 23 2017 05:40 zlefin wrote:
mozoku -> it's not a dumb criticism, (least not the versions I've been using; some other versions may be dumb). and we've already criticized trump for the more serious matters, there's no shortage of serious criticisms of trump. it's just so tiring that we like to also use some of the funnier criticisms to lighten things up.