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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
July 21 2017 21:44 GMT
#163041
I remember having all these stern arguments about the horrors of unmasking. How serious it was. How Hannity was totally right in his accusations that Susan Rice was UNMASKING AMERICAN PATRIOTS. And now for the lulz conclusion. Burr is the Republican Senate Chair of whatever sub-group is investigating Trump/Russia.

mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 21:52:18
July 21 2017 21:50 GMT
#163042
I'm with Igne on this one. From what I remember, HRC was relatively popular in 2012. Then came Benghazi, the email scandal, her highly profitable speechmaking tour, constant opposition attacks on the Clinton Foundation, etc.

There were plenty of legitimate reasons for someone to change their mind on Clinton between 2012 and 2015. This Twitter lookup thing is just a silly personal attack that adds nothing substantive to discourse.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44286 Posts
July 21 2017 21:52 GMT
#163043
No reasonable individual would have changed their mind on Clinton because of fictions like Clinton Cash or the allegation that she murdered Ben Ghazi. As for the speechmaking tour, the guy in question is the kind of person paying her for that tour.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 21 2017 21:55 GMT
#163044
Clinton's speeches were so immoral that people just had to switch their vote to a real estate mogul who owns a golden toilet
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 22:19:14
July 21 2017 21:59 GMT
#163045
On July 22 2017 06:44 Wulfey_LA wrote:
I remember having all these stern arguments about the horrors of unmasking. How serious it was. How Hannity was totally right in his accusations that Susan Rice was UNMASKING AMERICAN PATRIOTS. And now for the lulz conclusion. Burr is the Republican Senate Chair of whatever sub-group is investigating Trump/Russia.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/888488364843970561

Another thing worth reflecting on: the people who I remember making a big stink over this. You guys remember who you are and what you said...despite having zero reason to believe it.
mozoku
Profile Joined September 2012
United States708 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 22:09:12
July 21 2017 22:02 GMT
#163046
You guys are missing the point. The fact that those things don't convince you doesn't mean they didn't lower her standing in the eyes of a ton of voters. It's not unreasonable at all to think this Scaramucci guy is one of that group. Or that he changed his mind for one of a hundred other potential personal reasons in that three years.

Look, there's plenty of strong reasons to believe that this guy is a shill. A tweet supporting HRC in 2012 is not one of them. Don't let your partisan blinders cloud your good judgment. If you want to credibly denounce Trump for dumb personal attacks, you have to do the same for the dumb personal attacks coming from your side.
TheLordofAwesome
Profile Joined May 2014
Korea (South)2656 Posts
July 21 2017 22:11 GMT
#163047
On July 22 2017 06:52 KwarK wrote:
No reasonable individual would have changed their mind on Clinton because of fictions like Clinton Cash or the allegation that she murdered Ben Ghazi. As for the speechmaking tour, the guy in question is the kind of person paying her for that tour.

I seem to remember you making a very lengthy post about the Uranium One deal as portrayed in Clinton Cash. I think you even called it something like the "time traveling uranium story." I can't find the post in question though, and I would really like to see it again to see your arguments laid out.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 21 2017 22:15 GMT
#163048
Is this even legal?


Tenn. county inmates given reduced jail time if they get a vasectomy

Inmates in White County, Tennessee have been given credit for their jail time if they voluntarily agree to have a vasectomy or birth control implant, a popular new program that is being called “unconstitutional” by the ACLU.

On May 15, 2017 General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed a standing order that allows inmates to receive 30 days credit toward jail time if they undergo a birth control procedure.

Women who volunteer to participate in the program are given a free Nexplanon implant in their arm, the implant helps prevent pregnancies for up to four years. Men who volunteer to participate are given a vasectomy, free of charge, by the Tennessee Department of Health.

County officials said that since the program began a few months ago 32 women have gotten the Nexplananon implant and 38 men were waiting to have the vasectomy procedure performed.

Judge Benningfield told Nashville-based WTVF that he was trying to break a vicious cycle of repeat offenders who constantly come into his courtroom on drug related charges, subsequently can’t afford child support and have trouble finding jobs.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children. This gives them a chance to get on their feet and make something of themselves,” Judge Benningfield said in an interview.

First elected in 1998, Judge Benningfield decided to implement the program after speaking with officials at the Tennessee Department of Health.

“I understand it won’t be entirely successful but if you reach two or three people, maybe that’s two or three kids not being born under the influence of drugs. I see it as a win, win,” he added.
Inmates in the White County jail were also given two days credit toward their jail sentence if they complete a State of Tennessee, Department of Health Neonatal Syndrome Education Program. The class aimed to educate those who are incarcerated about the dangers of having children while under the influence of drugs.

“Hopefully while they’re staying here we rehabilitate them so they never come back,” the judge said.

District Attorney Bryant Dunaway, who oversees prosecution of cases in White County said he is worried the program may be unethical and possibly illegal.

“It’s concerning to me, my office doesn’t support this order,” Dunaway said.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he added.

On Wednesday, the ACLU released this statement on the program:

"Offering a so-called 'choice' between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional. Such a choice violates the fundamental constitutional right to reproductive autonomy and bodily integrity by interfering with the intimate decision of whether and when to have a child, imposing an intrusive medical procedure on individuals who are not in a position to reject it. Judges play an important role in our community – overseeing individuals’ childbearing capacity should not be part of that role."


www.abc15.com
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 21 2017 22:27 GMT
#163049
sounds illegal to me; pretty sure there's case law covering such things in general; though I'm not so sure about the particulars of the implementation they use.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24341 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 22:31:37
July 21 2017 22:28 GMT
#163050
On July 22 2017 07:15 Nevuk wrote:
Is this even legal?

Show nested quote +

Tenn. county inmates given reduced jail time if they get a vasectomy

Inmates in White County, Tennessee have been given credit for their jail time if they voluntarily agree to have a vasectomy or birth control implant, a popular new program that is being called “unconstitutional” by the ACLU.

On May 15, 2017 General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed a standing order that allows inmates to receive 30 days credit toward jail time if they undergo a birth control procedure.

Women who volunteer to participate in the program are given a free Nexplanon implant in their arm, the implant helps prevent pregnancies for up to four years. Men who volunteer to participate are given a vasectomy, free of charge, by the Tennessee Department of Health.

County officials said that since the program began a few months ago 32 women have gotten the Nexplananon implant and 38 men were waiting to have the vasectomy procedure performed.

Judge Benningfield told Nashville-based WTVF that he was trying to break a vicious cycle of repeat offenders who constantly come into his courtroom on drug related charges, subsequently can’t afford child support and have trouble finding jobs.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children. This gives them a chance to get on their feet and make something of themselves,” Judge Benningfield said in an interview.

First elected in 1998, Judge Benningfield decided to implement the program after speaking with officials at the Tennessee Department of Health.

“I understand it won’t be entirely successful but if you reach two or three people, maybe that’s two or three kids not being born under the influence of drugs. I see it as a win, win,” he added.
Inmates in the White County jail were also given two days credit toward their jail sentence if they complete a State of Tennessee, Department of Health Neonatal Syndrome Education Program. The class aimed to educate those who are incarcerated about the dangers of having children while under the influence of drugs.

“Hopefully while they’re staying here we rehabilitate them so they never come back,” the judge said.

District Attorney Bryant Dunaway, who oversees prosecution of cases in White County said he is worried the program may be unethical and possibly illegal.

“It’s concerning to me, my office doesn’t support this order,” Dunaway said.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he added.

On Wednesday, the ACLU released this statement on the program:

"Offering a so-called 'choice' between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional. Such a choice violates the fundamental constitutional right to reproductive autonomy and bodily integrity by interfering with the intimate decision of whether and when to have a child, imposing an intrusive medical procedure on individuals who are not in a position to reject it. Judges play an important role in our community – overseeing individuals’ childbearing capacity should not be part of that role."


www.abc15.com


Short answer: Yes, until the courts say no.

But holy shit, you only get 30 days credit for a vasectomy. That's the real crime. That's gotta be worth at least a year.

Seriously though, doesn't help when you think about this part.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Just hoping some already infertile imprisoned people are able to take advantage.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
July 21 2017 22:33 GMT
#163051
Yeah not going to lie this sounds like some kind of mad scientist eugenics program
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 21 2017 22:33 GMT
#163052
On July 22 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2017 07:15 Nevuk wrote:
Is this even legal?


Tenn. county inmates given reduced jail time if they get a vasectomy

Inmates in White County, Tennessee have been given credit for their jail time if they voluntarily agree to have a vasectomy or birth control implant, a popular new program that is being called “unconstitutional” by the ACLU.

On May 15, 2017 General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed a standing order that allows inmates to receive 30 days credit toward jail time if they undergo a birth control procedure.

Women who volunteer to participate in the program are given a free Nexplanon implant in their arm, the implant helps prevent pregnancies for up to four years. Men who volunteer to participate are given a vasectomy, free of charge, by the Tennessee Department of Health.

County officials said that since the program began a few months ago 32 women have gotten the Nexplananon implant and 38 men were waiting to have the vasectomy procedure performed.

Judge Benningfield told Nashville-based WTVF that he was trying to break a vicious cycle of repeat offenders who constantly come into his courtroom on drug related charges, subsequently can’t afford child support and have trouble finding jobs.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children. This gives them a chance to get on their feet and make something of themselves,” Judge Benningfield said in an interview.

First elected in 1998, Judge Benningfield decided to implement the program after speaking with officials at the Tennessee Department of Health.

“I understand it won’t be entirely successful but if you reach two or three people, maybe that’s two or three kids not being born under the influence of drugs. I see it as a win, win,” he added.
Inmates in the White County jail were also given two days credit toward their jail sentence if they complete a State of Tennessee, Department of Health Neonatal Syndrome Education Program. The class aimed to educate those who are incarcerated about the dangers of having children while under the influence of drugs.

“Hopefully while they’re staying here we rehabilitate them so they never come back,” the judge said.

District Attorney Bryant Dunaway, who oversees prosecution of cases in White County said he is worried the program may be unethical and possibly illegal.

“It’s concerning to me, my office doesn’t support this order,” Dunaway said.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he added.

On Wednesday, the ACLU released this statement on the program:

"Offering a so-called 'choice' between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional. Such a choice violates the fundamental constitutional right to reproductive autonomy and bodily integrity by interfering with the intimate decision of whether and when to have a child, imposing an intrusive medical procedure on individuals who are not in a position to reject it. Judges play an important role in our community – overseeing individuals’ childbearing capacity should not be part of that role."


www.abc15.com


Short answer: Yes, until the courts say no.

But holy shit, you only get 30 days credit for a vasectomy. That's the real crime. That's gotta be worth at least a year.

Seriously though, doesn't help when you think about this part.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Just hoping some already infertile prisoners are able to take advantage.

Should watch the video of the judge justifying it. Pretty amazing how well coded the language has become.

I'm not saying that this judge isn't doing what he thinks is right. I'm saying that what he thinks is right is likely racist (or classist, if one prefers) on a deeply ingrained level based on the way he speaks of drug addicts.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44286 Posts
July 21 2017 23:23 GMT
#163053
Definitely a eugenics program. I don't necessarily mind voluntary eugenics but coercive prison sentences don't really fit the bill for voluntary.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 23:27:50
July 21 2017 23:23 GMT
#163054
Senate parliamentarian has ruled that defunding planned parenthood needs 60 votes.


The parliamentarian has made a determination that certain provisions of the Republican “Better
Care Reconciliation Act” released on June 26, 2017, violate the Byrd Rule. This means that,
should the Senate proceed to the bill, these provisions may be struck from the legislation absent
60 votes.
Notably, the parliamentarian has advised that abortion restrictions on the premium tax credit and
the small business tax credit, and the language defunding Planned Parenthood, violate the Byrd
Rule. Further, the “Buffalo Bailout” which was used to secure votes in the House has also been
found to violate the Byrd Rule – threatening other state-specific buy-offs.

Provisions Subject to a 60-vote Byrd Rule Point of Order

• Defunding Planned Parenthood: This section prohibits Planned Parenthood from receiving
Medicaid funds for one year. (Sec. 124)
• Abortion Restrictions for Tax Credits: Two separate provisions contain Hyde Amendment
language to prevent premium tax credits and small business tax credits from being used to
purchase health insurance that covers abortion. (Sec. 102(d)(1) and Sec. 103(b))
• Sunset of Essential Health Benefits Requirement for Medicaid: This provision states that,
beginning in 2020, states no longer have to cover essential health benefits in their Medicaid
alternative benefit plans. (Sec. 126(b))
• Funding for Cost-Sharing Subsidies: This section replicates current law by providing
funding for the subsidies through 2019. (Sec. 208)
• Stabilizing the Individual Insurance Markets (“Six Month Lock Out”): This section
imposes a six-month waiting period for individuals attempting to enroll in coverage in the
individual market who cannot demonstrate that they have maintained continuous coverage.
(Sec. 206)
• Medical Loss Ratio: This section allows states to determine how much insurers are allowed
to spend on administration, marketing, and profits versus health care. (Sec. 205)
• Availability of Rollover Funds: This provision allows states that spend less than their
targeted block grant amount to rollover funds to the following year and to use funds for nonhealth
purposes, specifically repealing the provision of the Social Security Act that prohibits
states from using Medicaid funds to build roads, bridges, and stadiums. (Sec. 134 –
1903B(c)(2)(D)) (Note: this provision has been removed from the most recent draft).
• Decrease in Target Expenditures for Required Expenditures by Certain Political
Subdivisions (“Buffalo Bailout”): This provision limits the ability of New York State to
require counties other than New York City to contribute funding to the state’s Medicaid
program. (Sec. 133 – 1903(c)(4))
• Grandfathering Certain Medicaid Waivers; Prioritization of HCBS Waivers: This
section says that the Secretary will encourage states to adopt Medicaid Home and
Community Based Services (HCBS) waivers but does not set forth any actual details for this
plan. (Sec. 136)
• Reporting of CMS-64 Data (T-MSIS): This provision requires the Secretary of HHS to
submit a report on Congress recommending whether expenditure data from the Transformed
Medicaid Statistical Information System (T-MSIS) is preferable to data from state CMS-64
reports for making certain Medicaid decisions. (Sec. 133 – 1903(h)(5))
• Coordination with States: This section requires the Secretary to consult with states before
finalizing Medicaid rules. (Sec. 137)
Provisions Not Subject to a 60-vote Byrd Rule Point of Order
• Medicaid Work Requirements: This provision allows states the option to impose work
requirements on Medicaid enrollees who are nondisabled, nonelderly, and nonpregnant.
Pregnant women are exempt from any work requirements for 60 days after giving birth. (Sec.
131)
• Providing Safety Net Funding for Non-Expansion States – This section provides $10
billion for non-expansion states. (Sec. 129)
• State Stability and Innovation Fund: This section includes abortion restrictions on funding
for the State Stability and Innovation Fund by tacking the Fund onto the CHIP program.
(Sec. 106)
• Equity Adjustment: This provision provides for adjusting the per capita cap targets of lowand
high-spending states to promote equity. (Sec. 133 – 1903(c)(5))
• Repeal of Cost-Sharing Subsidy Program: This section permanently repeals cost-sharing
subsidies beginning in 2020. (Sec. 209)
• Reporting of CMS-64 Data: This provision requires states to include information on per
capita cap enrollment and expenditures, psychiatric hospital expenditures, and children with
complex medical conditions in their Medicaid expenditure reports. (Sec. 133 -- 1903(h)(1))
Still Under Review
• Waivers for State Innovation (Essential Health Benefits): This section amends Sec. 1332
of the ACA to allow states to waive age rating, essential health benefits, and pre-existing
condition requirements so long as their proposal does not increase the federal deficit. (Sec.
207)

Direct text - it's a pdf, would need to copy + paste (hyper text won't work with brackets)
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Background on Byrd Rule decisions_7.21[1].pdf

News sources :
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/parliamentarian-rules-health-bills-planned-parenthood-defunding-6-month-waiting-period-dont-meet-51-vote-requirement/article/2629393

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/449756/senate-health-care-planned-parenthood-defund-bill-cannot-remove-funding

etc.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 23:31:37
July 21 2017 23:27 GMT
#163055


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 23:33:42
July 21 2017 23:32 GMT
#163056
On July 22 2017 08:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AshleyRParker/status/888532721689128963

https://twitter.com/AP/status/888540828859158528


Annnnnnnnnnnnnd see ya, Sessions.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
July 21 2017 23:35 GMT
#163057
On July 22 2017 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2017 08:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AshleyRParker/status/888532721689128963

https://twitter.com/AP/status/888540828859158528


Annnnnnnnnnnnnd see ya, Sessions.

McConnell is probably going to say something about senators needing to stand together in one of their colleague's time of need and pass on the perjury indictment.

Not sure why this means Sessions needs to go anywhere - there's some viable ways to spin it that I already see in the article (namely, that it requires trusting Kislyak's word).
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 23:40:21
July 21 2017 23:38 GMT
#163058
Couldn't be happening to an nicer good old boy.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
July 21 2017 23:38 GMT
#163059
On July 22 2017 07:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2017 07:15 Nevuk wrote:
Is this even legal?


Tenn. county inmates given reduced jail time if they get a vasectomy

Inmates in White County, Tennessee have been given credit for their jail time if they voluntarily agree to have a vasectomy or birth control implant, a popular new program that is being called “unconstitutional” by the ACLU.

On May 15, 2017 General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed a standing order that allows inmates to receive 30 days credit toward jail time if they undergo a birth control procedure.

Women who volunteer to participate in the program are given a free Nexplanon implant in their arm, the implant helps prevent pregnancies for up to four years. Men who volunteer to participate are given a vasectomy, free of charge, by the Tennessee Department of Health.

County officials said that since the program began a few months ago 32 women have gotten the Nexplananon implant and 38 men were waiting to have the vasectomy procedure performed.

Judge Benningfield told Nashville-based WTVF that he was trying to break a vicious cycle of repeat offenders who constantly come into his courtroom on drug related charges, subsequently can’t afford child support and have trouble finding jobs.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children. This gives them a chance to get on their feet and make something of themselves,” Judge Benningfield said in an interview.

First elected in 1998, Judge Benningfield decided to implement the program after speaking with officials at the Tennessee Department of Health.

“I understand it won’t be entirely successful but if you reach two or three people, maybe that’s two or three kids not being born under the influence of drugs. I see it as a win, win,” he added.
Inmates in the White County jail were also given two days credit toward their jail sentence if they complete a State of Tennessee, Department of Health Neonatal Syndrome Education Program. The class aimed to educate those who are incarcerated about the dangers of having children while under the influence of drugs.

“Hopefully while they’re staying here we rehabilitate them so they never come back,” the judge said.

District Attorney Bryant Dunaway, who oversees prosecution of cases in White County said he is worried the program may be unethical and possibly illegal.

“It’s concerning to me, my office doesn’t support this order,” Dunaway said.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he added.

On Wednesday, the ACLU released this statement on the program:

"Offering a so-called 'choice' between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional. Such a choice violates the fundamental constitutional right to reproductive autonomy and bodily integrity by interfering with the intimate decision of whether and when to have a child, imposing an intrusive medical procedure on individuals who are not in a position to reject it. Judges play an important role in our community – overseeing individuals’ childbearing capacity should not be part of that role."


www.abc15.com


Short answer: Yes, until the courts say no.

But holy shit, you only get 30 days credit for a vasectomy. That's the real crime. That's gotta be worth at least a year.

Seriously though, doesn't help when you think about this part.

[image loading]

[image loading]

Just hoping some already infertile imprisoned people are able to take advantage.

Got racial offender statistics?

On July 22 2017 06:44 Wulfey_LA wrote:
I remember having all these stern arguments about the horrors of unmasking. How serious it was. How Hannity was totally right in his accusations that Susan Rice was UNMASKING AMERICAN PATRIOTS. And now for the lulz conclusion. Burr is the Republican Senate Chair of whatever sub-group is investigating Trump/Russia.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/888488364843970561




The pump fake so fast everybody misses it. The HPSCI will continue investigating; Susan Rice has been subpoena'd and will testify soon. So will Samantha Power. The fallout from that will be the senator's big chance to prove he's not full of shit.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-21 23:40:32
July 21 2017 23:40 GMT
#163060



(it was a white unarmed australian)
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