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On July 08 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 00:43 zlefin wrote:On July 08 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On July 08 2017 00:28 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2017 00:24 zlefin wrote:
re: the man-child stuff with plansix on the last page.
Long as they can afford to pay other people to deal with it; we'll just have to roll our eyes and live with it.
At any rate, stuff like that is a failure of the lower education levels; imho a high school education should have covered the basics of taking care of yourself like that. sometimes parents don't teach that stuff to their kids, and in those cases the ed system should be able to cover it. I think we need a bit more life skills teaching in high school, and a bit less of the stuff most people forget anyways. 100% correct. High-school, especially towards the end, should focus far less on requiring every academic subject be studied. Let juniors and seniors choose if they care about advanced mathematics, chemistry, etc., but force them to take basic taxation, accounting, financial, civics, and home economics classes. It's astonishing how many people my age (29, rather old for these forums) have no idea how credit cards work. I disagree. We should be holding high-schoolers to much higher standards because they are simply not equipped to make these decisions at their age. I only passed 2 science classes while I was in high school and just failed everything else. Barely made it out of basic algebra. I never thought I'd be remotely capable of being a scientist or engineer of any sort, so I just kind of chose not to. That hurt me a lot when I finally decided I was capable of it. I know not everyone is as much of a dipshit as I was in high school, but quite a few are. An 18 year old is NOT capable of planning their lives and quite frankly I think schooling should be required beyond 18. I think 18 is a very poorly defended age of adulthood or whatever. Does anyone here regard their 18 year old self as even slightly capable of long term planning? I am sure upbringing plays a big role, since mine was a complete joke, but I get the feeling my situation is not uncommon. I had friends who knew they were going to be a programmer. Came from rich families who coached them how to plan life etc. But I didn't have that and a lot of people don't. My 18 y/o self was highly capable of long term planning; of course I had a supportive upbringing, and a personality that favors it. historically lots of 18 y/os were quite capable of long term planning; whether you can do things depends alot on training; giving them the training to look after themselves is more valuable than a lot of other stuff. a lot of stuff taught in school simply isn't that relevant and is forgotten afterwards. your situation may be common; but that's all the more reason to have school step in to provide that kind of training for people who don't get it at home. and as long as high school is the highest level a fair number of people get to; then we should make sure it's done by then (or some of it even earlier in jr high and elementary) You clearly have not interacted with a lot of 18 year olds recently. Long term planning isn’t a thing they do or have every really done.
that's because they're not expected to and/or have not been trained ot do so. social norms matter a lot.
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The solution isn't more school after 18 years. It's not going to help people to be institutionally stuck in the education system in years where they can be getting actual experience.
The solution is to make sure that by the time they graduate, they have the skills to make the right decisions for themselves which includes continual learning.
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On July 08 2017 00:51 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:On July 08 2017 00:43 zlefin wrote:On July 08 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On July 08 2017 00:28 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2017 00:24 zlefin wrote:
re: the man-child stuff with plansix on the last page.
Long as they can afford to pay other people to deal with it; we'll just have to roll our eyes and live with it.
At any rate, stuff like that is a failure of the lower education levels; imho a high school education should have covered the basics of taking care of yourself like that. sometimes parents don't teach that stuff to their kids, and in those cases the ed system should be able to cover it. I think we need a bit more life skills teaching in high school, and a bit less of the stuff most people forget anyways. 100% correct. High-school, especially towards the end, should focus far less on requiring every academic subject be studied. Let juniors and seniors choose if they care about advanced mathematics, chemistry, etc., but force them to take basic taxation, accounting, financial, civics, and home economics classes. It's astonishing how many people my age (29, rather old for these forums) have no idea how credit cards work. I disagree. We should be holding high-schoolers to much higher standards because they are simply not equipped to make these decisions at their age. I only passed 2 science classes while I was in high school and just failed everything else. Barely made it out of basic algebra. I never thought I'd be remotely capable of being a scientist or engineer of any sort, so I just kind of chose not to. That hurt me a lot when I finally decided I was capable of it. I know not everyone is as much of a dipshit as I was in high school, but quite a few are. An 18 year old is NOT capable of planning their lives and quite frankly I think schooling should be required beyond 18. I think 18 is a very poorly defended age of adulthood or whatever. Does anyone here regard their 18 year old self as even slightly capable of long term planning? I am sure upbringing plays a big role, since mine was a complete joke, but I get the feeling my situation is not uncommon. I had friends who knew they were going to be a programmer. Came from rich families who coached them how to plan life etc. But I didn't have that and a lot of people don't. My 18 y/o self was highly capable of long term planning; of course I had a supportive upbringing, and a personality that favors it. historically lots of 18 y/os were quite capable of long term planning; whether you can do things depends alot on training; giving them the training to look after themselves is more valuable than a lot of other stuff. a lot of stuff taught in school simply isn't that relevant and is forgotten afterwards. your situation may be common; but that's all the more reason to have school step in to provide that kind of training for people who don't get it at home. and as long as high school is the highest level a fair number of people get to; then we should make sure it's done by then (or some of it even earlier in jr high and elementary) You clearly have not interacted with a lot of 18 year olds recently. Long term planning isn’t a thing they do or have every really done. that's because they're not expected to and/or have not been trained ot do so. social norms matter a lot.
They have not changed that much in history. The 18-20s have always been a time for people to find their place in the world and mess up. The thing that changed is the cost of doing that(higher education costs).
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Right, let's outlaw student loans.
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18 year olds are totally capable of planning, but I dobt they're often given the tools to really plan. Shit all through school you're told which classes you're going to take because who the hell knows where you'll end up? It'd be nice if high school became that career planning phase of education, I know plenty of people with the academic ability of a dried out cactus that had planned like ten years into their future (often as a trade worker) that dude is probably a welder making good money at the moment. High school should really be more practical than it is. No, I don't use trig or calc in my life at all, nor chemistry, and not physics (as much as I enjoyed chem and physics) and many people would be better served dropping some of the core classes in favor of life skills courses if they don't ever intend to become chemists or creative writers or mathematicians.
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Student loans in their current form are a way for the federal government to collect additional tax revenue from the young without calling it a tax.
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On July 08 2017 00:55 Zambrah wrote:
18 year olds are totally capable of planning, but I dobt they're often given the tools to really plan. Shit all through school you're told which classes you're going to take because who the hell knows where you'll end up? It'd be nice if high school became that career planning phase of education, I know plenty of people with the academic ability of a dried out cactus that had planned like ten years into their future (often as a trade worker) that dude is probably a welder making good money at the moment. High school should really be more practical than it is. No, I don't use trig or calc in my life at all, nor chemistry, and not physics (as much as I enjoyed chem and physics) and many people would be better served dropping some of the core classes in favor of life skills courses if they don't ever intend to become chemists or creative writers or mathematicians.
In the UK we narrow down to around 4 subjects at age 16. If anything I think we are moving back the other way though, with the international baccalaureate becoming more popular, which is a rather broader qualification.
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You get taught trig or calc or chemistry or physics and English because the use of such skills are essential to the economy of an advanced economy. They are brute forced into as many people in the education system in the vague hope of reaching as many people as possible, because the cost of not doing so is an economically weaker country. The vast majority of people in an advanced country would never would use those knowledge, but their lives would be far worse if fewer people did choose to pursue those subjects due to lack of exposure.
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On July 08 2017 00:55 Buckyman wrote:
Right, let's outlaw student loans.
Maybe update the system, rather than leave it alone for 30 years and hope it all works out.
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On July 08 2017 00:55 Zambrah wrote:
18 year olds are totally capable of planning, but I dobt they're often given the tools to really plan. Shit all through school you're told which classes you're going to take because who the hell knows where you'll end up? It'd be nice if high school became that career planning phase of education, I know plenty of people with the academic ability of a dried out cactus that had planned like ten years into their future (often as a trade worker) that dude is probably a welder making good money at the moment. High school should really be more practical than it is. No, I don't use trig or calc in my life at all, nor chemistry, and not physics (as much as I enjoyed chem and physics) and many people would be better served dropping some of the core classes in favor of life skills courses if they don't ever intend to become chemists or creative writers or mathematicians.
Don't forget that teenagers without good long term plans may have to experience something like chemistry in a high school setting to actually decide if they like it and simultaneously not be behind their peers in college should it inspire a four year degree program in a related field. It's a very practical consideration in my view. I'm also very much in favor of home ec, shop, and drivers ed/car classes taught as electives and encouraged by parents.
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School should provide students with a board range of experiences so they can find something they are good at and enjoy. It is possible to make a living building beautiful, free standing spiral staircases for high end houses. I’m not really sure how the person who does that found out how to make that a profession, but I am sure a shop class was involved. Somewhere out there in the world, someone makes cymbals for drum sets, which is another weird skill that could be traced back to shop class.
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Let the speculation begin. It was supposed to be 30 minutes. If he had any plans to try to avoid more news about the investigation, this will have the opposite effect.
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On July 08 2017 01:21 Plansix wrote:
School should provide students with a board range of experiences so they can find something they are good at and enjoy. It is possible to make a living building beautiful, free standing spiral staircases for high end houses. I’m not really sure how the person who does that found out how to make that a profession, but I am sure a shop class was involved. Somewhere out there in the world, someone makes cymbals for drum sets, which is another weird skill that could be traced back to shop class.
Because school these days are too busy focusing on guilt tripping white males into shame.
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The man who has to have all his reports kept to under a page and whose aids find ways to slip his name into reports in random places in order to keep his attention focused on them is somehow able to keep his focus during a 2 hour meeting?
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On July 08 2017 01:45 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:21 Plansix wrote:
School should provide students with a board range of experiences so they can find something they are good at and enjoy. It is possible to make a living building beautiful, free standing spiral staircases for high end houses. I’m not really sure how the person who does that found out how to make that a profession, but I am sure a shop class was involved. Somewhere out there in the world, someone makes cymbals for drum sets, which is another weird skill that could be traced back to shop class. Because school these days are too busy focusing on guilt tripping white males into shame.
Were you guilt tripped into shame?
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On July 08 2017 01:47 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:45 RealityIsKing wrote:On July 08 2017 01:21 Plansix wrote:
School should provide students with a board range of experiences so they can find something they are good at and enjoy. It is possible to make a living building beautiful, free standing spiral staircases for high end houses. I’m not really sure how the person who does that found out how to make that a profession, but I am sure a shop class was involved. Somewhere out there in the world, someone makes cymbals for drum sets, which is another weird skill that could be traced back to shop class. Because school these days are too busy focusing on guilt tripping white males into shame. Were you guilt tripped into shame?
He took the red pill, which removed his ability to feel shame.
User was warned for this post
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On July 08 2017 00:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 00:51 zlefin wrote:On July 08 2017 00:48 Plansix wrote:On July 08 2017 00:43 zlefin wrote:On July 08 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On July 08 2017 00:28 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2017 00:24 zlefin wrote:
re: the man-child stuff with plansix on the last page.
Long as they can afford to pay other people to deal with it; we'll just have to roll our eyes and live with it.
At any rate, stuff like that is a failure of the lower education levels; imho a high school education should have covered the basics of taking care of yourself like that. sometimes parents don't teach that stuff to their kids, and in those cases the ed system should be able to cover it. I think we need a bit more life skills teaching in high school, and a bit less of the stuff most people forget anyways. 100% correct. High-school, especially towards the end, should focus far less on requiring every academic subject be studied. Let juniors and seniors choose if they care about advanced mathematics, chemistry, etc., but force them to take basic taxation, accounting, financial, civics, and home economics classes. It's astonishing how many people my age (29, rather old for these forums) have no idea how credit cards work. I disagree. We should be holding high-schoolers to much higher standards because they are simply not equipped to make these decisions at their age. I only passed 2 science classes while I was in high school and just failed everything else. Barely made it out of basic algebra. I never thought I'd be remotely capable of being a scientist or engineer of any sort, so I just kind of chose not to. That hurt me a lot when I finally decided I was capable of it. I know not everyone is as much of a dipshit as I was in high school, but quite a few are. An 18 year old is NOT capable of planning their lives and quite frankly I think schooling should be required beyond 18. I think 18 is a very poorly defended age of adulthood or whatever. Does anyone here regard their 18 year old self as even slightly capable of long term planning? I am sure upbringing plays a big role, since mine was a complete joke, but I get the feeling my situation is not uncommon. I had friends who knew they were going to be a programmer. Came from rich families who coached them how to plan life etc. But I didn't have that and a lot of people don't. My 18 y/o self was highly capable of long term planning; of course I had a supportive upbringing, and a personality that favors it. historically lots of 18 y/os were quite capable of long term planning; whether you can do things depends alot on training; giving them the training to look after themselves is more valuable than a lot of other stuff. a lot of stuff taught in school simply isn't that relevant and is forgotten afterwards. your situation may be common; but that's all the more reason to have school step in to provide that kind of training for people who don't get it at home. and as long as high school is the highest level a fair number of people get to; then we should make sure it's done by then (or some of it even earlier in jr high and elementary) You clearly have not interacted with a lot of 18 year olds recently. Long term planning isn’t a thing they do or have every really done. that's because they're not expected to and/or have not been trained ot do so. social norms matter a lot. They have not changed that much in history. The 18-20s have always been a time for people to find their place in the world and mess up. The thing that changed is the cost of doing that(higher education costs).
social norms haven't changed that much throughout history?
so back when 11 year olds were tending textiles machines? did you ever read Great Expectations or Johnny Tremain?
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On July 08 2017 01:45 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2017 01:21 Plansix wrote:
School should provide students with a board range of experiences so they can find something they are good at and enjoy. It is possible to make a living building beautiful, free standing spiral staircases for high end houses. I’m not really sure how the person who does that found out how to make that a profession, but I am sure a shop class was involved. Somewhere out there in the world, someone makes cymbals for drum sets, which is another weird skill that could be traced back to shop class. Because school these days are too busy focusing on guilt tripping white males into shame.
At no point have I felt guilt tripped into anything while in school. I gained a greater appreciation for the opportunities I had that others did not having been exposed to a variety of people with different upbringings but I do not feel guilty for it instead I feel grateful for those around me who helped me become what I am.
They have infused me with a desire to help improve the world as a whole but that does include feeling guilty for anything that I have done or for being able to get where I am when others could not.
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That's such a dumb rule. Now shoulders are taboo?
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Canada11350 Posts
I don't how much school can actually provide unless it all occurs in grade 12. I taught Planning 10 one year and remembering how much I hated the old Career and Personal Planning course in the past, I tried to make it as real world applicable as I could- resume writing; taxes; researching job prospects, universities and trade schools; debt and student loans; financial planning that sort of thing. A handful of students recognized that this stuff would be useful for life, but I would say for a majority in grade 10 (and I was the same way) that two year gap seems like an eternity and it's really only that grade 12 year where they all wake up (hopefully) and realize, oh shoot, I actually have to think of what comes next. Or maybe I taught it poorly, but I don't think so.
Prior to that graduating year, most of it feels like a waste of time, but it's rarely taught in the graduating year (at least in BC) and so they rarely see the applicability (supposing it is taught right).
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EPT
