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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-21 11:12:04
June 21 2017 11:08 GMT
#158121
It's suburban Atlanta, the people who care about wages live in the city
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1920 Posts
June 21 2017 12:16 GMT
#158122
On June 21 2017 15:57 Dromar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 15:44 xDaunt wrote:
On June 21 2017 15:16 Lmui wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-panama-canal-juan-carlos-varela-boasting-twitter-mocking-a7799306.html

Sat side by side while cameras flared, the mogul-turned-politico claimed he and Mr Varela had many important issues to discuss, but nevertheless found time to declare: “The Panama Canal is doing quite well. I think we did a good job building it, right - a very good job.”

Turning to Juan Carlos Varela, Mr Trump asked: "Right?"

The President of Panama made sure to interject with: “Yeah, about 100 years ago.”


Somehow, I'm always surprised by how much lower my opinion of Trump can sink.

That's such a stupid thing to comment about


What doesn't surprise anymore me is that people would go out of their way to find fault in Trump where there is none. Go watch the video clip and try to argue that Trump was implying that the canal was just built.


I don't think that's it. There's just something off-putting about a person soliciting praise, especially when he (and even those involved with him) had nothing to do with it.


Not that I like Trump, but what is Panama famous for, except from the canal? Bringing up some good historical memories between countries is a perfectly normal thing to do. It is like praising France for the statue of liberty, or thanking the US for their efforts in Europe during WW2 imo.
Buff the siegetank
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
June 21 2017 12:26 GMT
#158123
A bill that slaps new sanctions on Russia, and passed the Senate almost unanimously, has hit a major stumbling block in the House.

Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas) said the legislation has been flagged by the House parliamentarian as a "blue slip" violation, referring to the constitutional requirement that revenue bills originate in the House.

"The House obviously will act to preserve the Constitution. Or the Senate can take the bill back, make the updates to it, and bring it back and move forward from that direction," Brady told reporters on Tuesday.

The development marks a major setback after the Senate overwhelmingly passed the legislation, which also includes new sanctions against Iran, last week in a 98-2 vote.
Brady, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, pushed back against suggestions that House GOP leadership is trying to delay the bill, stressing that he thought the Senate legislation was "sound policy."

"I am confident working with the Senate and Chairman [Ed] Royce that we can move this legislation forward. So at the end of the day, this isn’t a policy issue, it’s not a partisan issue, it is a Constitutional issue that we will address," he told reporters.

A spokesperson for Royce didn't immediately respond to request for comment.

AshLee Strong, a spokeswoman for House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said, "The Senate bill cannot be considered in the House its current form."

"The chair of the Ways and Means Committee, in consultation with the House Parliamentarian, has determined that the Senate sanctions bill as passed is in violation of the origination clause of the Constitution, commonly referred to as a 'blue slip' problem," she said.

She added that Ryan strongly supports sanctions and "we will determine the next course of action after speaking with our Senate colleagues."

An aide for Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), who was deeply involved in negotiating the Senate deal, said that the House has raised "concerns with one of the final provisions" of the bill.

"Now that we fully understand the issue raised today, we are working closely with them to further resolve the matter. We are confident we can find a path forward," the staffer said.

The aide for Corker didn't immediately respond to a question about what the "final provisions" included. Asked specifically what provision of the House bill got flagged as a "blue slip" violation, a spokeswoman for Brady referred back to his comments to reporters.

"The House has always, in a bipartisan way, followed protocol to avoid Origination Clause violations. It's the Constitution. It's pretty straightforward," a senior GOP aide added.

But the decision is sounding alarm bells among Democrats, who are warning that Republicans could be trying to delay the bill amid pushback from the Trump administration.

Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) lambasted the move, arguing they're using the procedural roadblock to cover for Trump, "who has been far too soft on Russia."

"Responding to Russia’s assault on our democracy should be a bipartisan issue that unites both Democrats and Republicans in the House and the Senate. The House Republicans need to pass this bill as quickly as possible," he said.

Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), the top Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, added that Republicans could easily work around the violation by introducing an indention House bill.

“[But] I predict this isn't the last excuse we'll hear for trying to slow this bill's momentum, but make no mistake, anything short of an up-or-down vote on this tough sanctions package is an attempt to let Russia off the hook," he said.

Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) stressed that he didn't think the Senate bill actually had a "blue slip" issue, but echoed Engel noting they it could be "easily corrected" by using a House bill.

"What the House many times believes [is] that if there's any fine in the legislation ... that's a revenue measure, and therefore that comes under the blue slip," he said. "I don't believe that's a part of this bill, but I know the House has raised this in the past."

He added, "If you take that logic, the Senate could never initiate any sanctions legislation."

The Senate passed the legislation last week, marking its most significant check on the Trump administration’s foreign policy, which has flirted with lifting sanctions in a bid to entice Moscow into an agreement.

The legislation would impose a range of new sanctions, including on any individuals tied to "malicious cyber activity," supplying weapons to Syrian President Bashar Assad's government or any that are tied to Russia's intelligence and defense sectors.

It would also give Congress 30 days — or 60 days around the August recess — to review and potentially block Trump from lifting or relaxing Russia sanctions, codify the sanctions on Russia imposed by executive order by the Obama administration and allow the Trump administration to impose new sanctions on sectors of the Russian economy.

It also includes new sanctions targeting Iran’s ballistic missile development, support for terrorism, transfer of weapons and human rights violations.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson appeared to use a House Foreign Affairs hearing this week to telegraph concerns about the bill, warning lawmakers against undercutting “constructive dialogue” with Russia.

"I would urge Congress to ensure any legislation allows the president to have the flexibility to adjust sanctions," he told lawmakers.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
June 21 2017 12:32 GMT
#158124
On June 21 2017 21:16 Slydie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 15:57 Dromar wrote:
On June 21 2017 15:44 xDaunt wrote:
On June 21 2017 15:16 Lmui wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-panama-canal-juan-carlos-varela-boasting-twitter-mocking-a7799306.html

Sat side by side while cameras flared, the mogul-turned-politico claimed he and Mr Varela had many important issues to discuss, but nevertheless found time to declare: “The Panama Canal is doing quite well. I think we did a good job building it, right - a very good job.”

Turning to Juan Carlos Varela, Mr Trump asked: "Right?"

The President of Panama made sure to interject with: “Yeah, about 100 years ago.”


Somehow, I'm always surprised by how much lower my opinion of Trump can sink.

That's such a stupid thing to comment about


What doesn't surprise anymore me is that people would go out of their way to find fault in Trump where there is none. Go watch the video clip and try to argue that Trump was implying that the canal was just built.


I don't think that's it. There's just something off-putting about a person soliciting praise, especially when he (and even those involved with him) had nothing to do with it.


Not that I like Trump, but what is Panama famous for, except from the canal? Bringing up some good historical memories between countries is a perfectly normal thing to do. It is like praising France for the statue of liberty, or thanking the US for their efforts in Europe during WW2 imo.


It's a fairly popular tax haven IIRC - but I think Trump would end up in bigger trouble if he praised it for that.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
June 21 2017 13:09 GMT
#158125
Miami is also a tax haven. We have a ton of high rise buildings with empty apartments that were all bought out by outside investors to stash assets. It's quite ridiculous because it has caused super high rent prices in Miami due to lack of housing. Even though we have thousands of empty apartments, and brand new houses. This includes at least 5-8 Trump buildings in Miami...
Life?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18828 Posts
June 21 2017 13:11 GMT
#158126
Real estate havening is a little different than the kind practiced in places like Panama, but yeah, new empty building syndrome is only going to get worse given the popularity of deregulation.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42700 Posts
June 21 2017 13:25 GMT
#158127
On June 21 2017 18:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 11:22 Plansix wrote:


Just so everyone is sure, the GOP groups DUMPED money into this race once it became close.


And there you see what this race was really all about. Dumping money to the "consultants" and "service providers".

This is why the Democratic party is becoming increasingly useless.

I definitely recall you attacking the Democratic Party for not dumping money into races due to tactical considerations a month or two ago.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 21 2017 13:29 GMT
#158128
On June 21 2017 22:25 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 18:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On June 21 2017 11:22 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/mjbeckel/status/877293833096220672

Just so everyone is sure, the GOP groups DUMPED money into this race once it became close.


And there you see what this race was really all about. Dumping money to the "consultants" and "service providers".

This is why the Democratic party is becoming increasingly useless.

I definitely recall you attacking the Democratic Party for not dumping money into races due to tactical considerations a month or two ago.

And throwing shade because the labeling of an invoice/breakdown of money spent is pretty silly. Service providers = transportation for people to knock out doors and get out the vote. Consultants: People with relationships with local vendors and broadcast networks.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18412 Posts
June 21 2017 13:31 GMT
#158129
What a sad race we humans are when money can win you elections
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8984 Posts
June 21 2017 13:35 GMT
#158130
[image loading]

Found this while I was doing some browsing to kill time. I think this is simple enough to explain to a lot of people. This can be applied to practically everything we've been talking about for the last 50 pages (race relations, class-ism, etc)
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-21 13:36:18
June 21 2017 13:35 GMT
#158131
On June 21 2017 22:31 sharkie wrote:
What a sad race we humans are when money can win you elections

Money = reach = influence
pretty straightforward correlation if you ask me
passive quaranstream fan
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 21 2017 13:42 GMT
#158132
On June 21 2017 22:35 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2017 22:31 sharkie wrote:
What a sad race we humans are when money can win you elections

Money = reach = influence
pretty straightforward correlation if you ask me

And there is a minimum amount of money required to be competitive in an election and no one knows what that number is at any given time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
June 21 2017 13:54 GMT
#158133
I don't get why people believe there is a causative relationship between money spent on elections and winning elections. We even had two recent large elections where the larger spender lost (sanders-clinton, clinton-trump) for those that are inclined to take anecdotal experience as proof.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8984 Posts
June 21 2017 14:02 GMT
#158134
It's the people behind the person running for office. They are the ones who have the influence. Clinton wouldn't have beaten Sanders if the powers that be acted like decent humans. And trump wouldn't have beaten Clinton for the same reason (we as a whole society in America). The amount of money spent increases reach for the messages being peddled and it is up to the person running to deliver that message in exchange for whatever strings come attached to it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
June 21 2017 14:19 GMT
#158135
At this point blaming Clinton’s loss anything but Clinton’s inability to get through to voters is pretty counter productive. The same with Sanders. Blaming outside forces like the DNC/Russia/FBI obscures the other reasons why both of them lost. Sanders did not run a perfect campaign. Same with Clinton. It is just another version of blaming Fox News/conservative radio.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
June 21 2017 14:24 GMT
#158136
On June 21 2017 22:54 chocorush wrote:
I don't get why people believe there is a causative relationship between money spent on elections and winning elections. We even had two recent large elections where the larger spender lost (sanders-clinton, clinton-trump) for those that are inclined to take anecdotal experience as proof.

Presidential elections by default get national elections and while your money is an indication of how you campaign, as a party nominee you are guaranteed national notoriety.

Local and state elections are a different matter and are highly buyable.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8984 Posts
June 21 2017 14:24 GMT
#158137
On June 21 2017 23:19 Plansix wrote:
At this point blaming Clinton’s loss anything but Clinton’s inability to get through to voters is pretty counter productive. The same with Sanders. Blaming outside forces like the DNC/Russia/FBI obscures the other reasons why both of them lost. Sanders did not run a perfect campaign. Same with Clinton. It is just another version of blaming Fox News/conservative radio.

I'm not discounting the campaigns that were ran. That's been discussed in depth already. I'm saying that, in regards to the amount of money spent and its influences, the people behind that money are the winners. As stated before. If this were a vacuum, Sanders would have won with his popularity to young voters. He would have attracted a rather large percentage of older voters as well. But when you define socialism as a dirty word, it's going to turn people off and they'll start looking for another option. Or abstain altogether.
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
June 21 2017 14:25 GMT
#158138
I think it's pretty clear that after a certain minimal amount of money spent, the vote isn't changed that much by additional money spent.
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
June 21 2017 14:29 GMT
#158139
Can we just get over Clintons loss? Who fucking cares, that's the past, it already happened. I'm more concerned with how we deal with it in the future because obviously no one wants to. Everyone just wants to keep putting money into elections without any concerns to others in the future.
Life?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
June 21 2017 14:29 GMT
#158140
On June 21 2017 22:54 chocorush wrote:
I don't get why people believe there is a causative relationship between money spent on elections and winning elections. We even had two recent large elections where the larger spender lost (sanders-clinton, clinton-trump) for those that are inclined to take anecdotal experience as proof.

because there is a causative, though not definitive, relationship. it doesn't guarantee victory, it does help. I'm not sure what the positive correlation is, but I'm sure it's been looked at.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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