EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7906
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 21 2017 12:16 Plansix wrote: Democrats throwing money into the ocean. But hey, it made them feel better. And now they can get back to their favorite pass time, fighting with the left wing of their part(who is convinced the DNC is the real enemy). They have some soul-searching to do with Perez and Sanders and Schumer and Pelosi on that front. What is the heart of the party and what's the big platform ideas and compromise positions? See Perez's "Every Democrat, like every American, should support a woman’s right to make her own choices about her body and her health" that was widely blamed for a Democratic loss in Nebraska. Writing off potential victories in red-state areas with ideologically pure positions is not something to be done lightly, no matter how passionate their left wing is on the issue. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 21 2017 12:45 Danglars wrote: They have some soul-searching to do with Perez and Sanders and Schumer and Pelosi on that front. What is the heart of the party and what's the big platform ideas and compromise positions? See Perez's "Every Democrat, like every American, should support a woman’s right to make her own choices about her body and her health" that was widely blamed for a Democratic loss in Nebraska. Writing off potential victories in red-state areas with ideologically pure positions is not something to be done lightly, no matter how passionate their left wing is on the issue. It is almost like there is this resistance to having outside forces influence elections in middle america. That dumping a bunch of national attention west and east coast talking points into the mix loses elections. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
A bill that slaps new sanctions on Russia, and passed the Senate almost unanimously, has hit a major stumbling block in the House. Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Texas) said the legislation has been flagged by the House parliamentarian as a "blue slip" violation, referring to the constitutional requirement that revenue bills originate in the House. "The House obviously will act to preserve the Constitution. Or the Senate can take the bill back, make the updates to it, and bring it back and move forward from that direction," Brady told reporters on Tuesday. The development marks a major setback after the Senate overwhelmingly passed the legislation, which also includes new sanctions against Iran, last week in a 98-2 vote. Brady, the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, pushed back against suggestions that House GOP leadership is trying to delay the bill, stressing that he thought the Senate legislation was "sound policy." "I am confident working with the Senate and Chairman [Ed] Royce that we can move this legislation forward. So at the end of the day, this isn’t a policy issue, it’s not a partisan issue, it is a Constitutional issue that we will address," he told reporters. A spokesperson for Royce didn't immediately respond to request for comment. AshLee Strong, a spokeswoman for House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said, "The Senate bill cannot be considered in the House its current form." "The chair of the Ways and Means Committee, in consultation with the House Parliamentarian, has determined that the Senate sanctions bill as passed is in violation of the origination clause of the Constitution, commonly referred to as a 'blue slip' problem," she said. She added that Ryan strongly supports sanctions and "we will determine the next course of action after speaking with our Senate colleagues." An aide for Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), who was deeply involved in negotiating the Senate deal, said that the House has raised "concerns with one of the final provisions" of the bill. "Now that we fully understand the issue raised today, we are working closely with them to further resolve the matter. We are confident we can find a path forward," the staffer said. The aide for Corker didn't immediately respond to a question about what the "final provisions" included. Asked specifically what provision of the House bill got flagged as a "blue slip" violation, a spokeswoman for Brady referred back to his comments to reporters. "The House has always, in a bipartisan way, followed protocol to avoid Origination Clause violations. It's the Constitution. It's pretty straightforward," a senior GOP aide added. [snip] http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/338673-house-republican-stalls-russia-sanctions-bill I actually think the house is completely right, but man are the optics fucking awful on it | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12432 Posts
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RenSC2
United States1083 Posts
On June 21 2017 13:17 Nebuchad wrote: I'm sure we can make all the points about middle America we want. I'm more interested in noting that the 2016 candidate got 200k votes in this district while Handel got "only" 132k, which seems to be the only major difference between the two results. Is there some exterior (or specific, fwiw) factors explaining that change? It's a guess, but my obvious guess is that a lot more voters came out for the presidential election in 2016 (and also voted for various other offices at the same time) than came out for a special election now. Midterms tend to get much worse attendance than presidential years and I'd think that special elections would do even worse unless specifically hyped up. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12432 Posts
On June 21 2017 13:35 RenSC2 wrote: It's a guess, but my obvious guess is that a lot more voters came out for the presidential election in 2016 (and also voted for various other offices at the same time) than came out for a special election now. Midterms tend to get much worse attendance than presidential years and I'd think that special elections would do even worse unless specifically hyped up. Oh this vote happened at the same time as the presidential election? I'm dumb, yeah that would be the reason then. If so the democrat mobilization for this was pretty huge, just 3k difference between the two. edit: yeah if you look at 2014 the republican number is coherent with this one, but the democrat number was much lower at 70k. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Sat side by side while cameras flared, the mogul-turned-politico claimed he and Mr Varela had many important issues to discuss, but nevertheless found time to declare: “The Panama Canal is doing quite well. I think we did a good job building it, right - a very good job.” Turning to Juan Carlos Varela, Mr Trump asked: "Right?" The President of Panama made sure to interject with: “Yeah, about 100 years ago.” Somehow, I'm always surprised by how much lower my opinion of Trump can sink. That's such a stupid thing to comment about | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 21 2017 15:16 Lmui wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-panama-canal-juan-carlos-varela-boasting-twitter-mocking-a7799306.html Somehow, I'm always surprised by how much lower my opinion of Trump can sink. That's such a stupid thing to comment about What doesn't surprise anymore me is that people would go out of their way to find fault in Trump where there is none. Go watch the video clip and try to argue that Trump was implying that the canal was just built. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9037 Posts
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On June 21 2017 15:44 xDaunt wrote: What doesn't surprise anymore me is that people would go out of their way to find fault in Trump where there is none. Go watch the video clip and try to argue that Trump was implying that the canal was just built. I don't think that's it. There's just something off-putting about a person soliciting praise, especially when he (and even those involved with him) had nothing to do with it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23844 Posts
On June 21 2017 11:22 Plansix wrote: Just so everyone is sure, the GOP groups DUMPED money into this race once it became close. And there you see what this race was really all about. Dumping money to the "consultants" and "service providers". This is why the Democratic party is becoming increasingly useless. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1961 Posts
On June 21 2017 12:16 Plansix wrote: Democrats throwing money into the ocean. But hey, it made them feel better. And now they can get back to their favorite pass time, fighting with the left wing of their part(who is convinced the DNC is the real enemy). https://twitter.com/InternetHippo/status/877352846953467904 The funny thing is, the 23 million $$$ the democrats used in their campaign are about as much as the second most influential german political party used in the last general election. You guys are crazy. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11798 Posts
On June 21 2017 18:02 Broetchenholer wrote: The funny thing is, the 23 million $$$ the democrats used in their campaign are about as much as the second most influential german political party used in the last general election. You guys are crazy. This made me look up some fun numbers: The largest amount ever spent on German elections was 240 million in 2009. (I quickly found data up to 20013 though). If we use the fact that the US has about 5 times as many citizens as Germany, that should be corrected to about 1.2 billions. However, this is not only the federal election. This is the total amount of money spent on local, state and federal elections by all parties in Germany in a year where there were a lot of elections. A more usual number is about 140 million total if there are Federal elections. (Corrected by population to ~700 millions for a country the size of the US) Meanwhile, the US parties spend 5-6 billion on federal elections if there is a presidential election, and ~3 if there are only congressional elections. I couldn't quickly find total numbers including all local elections. (If someone has that data, i would love to see it) This means that for one US presidential election year, you could have at least 5 German elections (corrected by population size). This is a lower limit based on worst case numbers, my guess for the actual number is that US parties spend at least 10 times as much as German parties per capita. Damn you guys waste a lot of money on this shit. | ||
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RenSC2
United States1083 Posts
On June 21 2017 18:00 GreenHorizons wrote: And there you see what this race was really all about. Dumping money to the "consultants" and "service providers". This is why the Democratic party is becoming increasingly useless. It looks like the Republicans dumped a lot more money into it. Are you saying the Republican party is becoming increasingly useless too? Or are they still useful because they dumped a lot more money into an area that should be an easy Republican win and barely pulled out a win this time? And if they're both useless, then why is it so rare for independents (or third parties) to win? Seems like both parties must be of some use. How do you think the money should be spent if not "consultants" and "service providers"... although I'm guessing a lot of that money actually went to advertising. I don't have a breakdown of where the money went. Or should the democrats just not take money and battle against a larger money disadvantage? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18258 Posts
On June 21 2017 11:22 Plansix wrote: https://twitter.com/mjbeckel/status/877293833096220672 Just so everyone is sure, the GOP groups DUMPED money into this race once it became close. I especially like a group called "Ending Spending" spending > 1million USD on this... | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23844 Posts
On June 21 2017 18:34 RenSC2 wrote: It looks like the Republicans dumped a lot more money into it. Are you saying the Republican party is becoming increasingly useless too? Or are they still useful because they dumped a lot more money into an area that should be an easy Republican win and barely pulled out a win this time? And if they're both useless, then why is it so rare for independents (or third parties) to win? Seems like both parties must be of some use. How do you think the money should be spent if not "consultants" and "service providers"... although I'm guessing a lot of that money actually went to advertising. I don't have a breakdown of where the money went. Or should the democrats just not take money and battle against a larger money disadvantage? Democrats consider this a win, because it was for the political money machine. In today's politics (post Trump) a politician's job isn't representing constituents (a quaint notion) it's collecting cash from donor class to be distributed among the political class and trying to stay relevant. To that end, it was a resounding success and magnificent performance for both parties. When I say useless, I mean useless to those outside of the donor, political, or media class. If you're part of that club, you've been making out like a bandit while the country has been going to shit. For the rest of us it's commuting on shitty roads, wasting billions of hours at ancient timer lights and with piss poor traffic management, drinking lead poisoned water, riding rails (if anyone rides a train anymore) that are older and worse maintained than anyone on the train, millions without healthcare and millions more who weigh food vs co-pays/prescriptions, a VA with computers/systems older than near anyone in this thread, ON AND ON AND ON AND ON. I get that it takes anyone a while to wake up to just how bad we're getting played (not in a grand conspiratorial way, but in a "hey we're smarter and more powerful than these guys, let's use that to our advantage" kinda way), but HOLY SH*T man! It's not like the country has been struggling while all that stuff has been getting worse and worse. We've had some pretty good times. The Dow is at/near an all-time high, people are doing better than they've ever done, and the money is rolling into the political process in ways that the rest of the world literally can't understand. ![[image loading]](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/160608191547-income-increase-780x439.jpg) I know people already half tune out whatever I say, but seriously, if you think our political parties dominate the political process because of the level of service they provide to the vast majority of us that don't belong to one of the aforementioned classes you've got to look harder at the country around you and the policies our politicians actually enact. If I asked you what good the Democrats have done recently, after realizing there's not much, you'd probably mention the ACA. That's how bad it's gotten. Democrats codified profit for insurance companies and that's celebrated as the big accomplishment. Now Democrats might say "well Republicans would have preferred blah blah blah", as if Republicans had any say on the ACA. They didn't, the ACA is the best the DEMOCRATIC party could agree on among themselves. That same Democratic party, that could only muster supporting insurance company profit guarantees, but couldn't even get a public option (among themselves), now thinks the reason they lost 1000+ seats was because they didn't appeal enough to Republicans. That party is getting ever closer not just to useless but to counterproductive to progressive causes. Becoming masters of tokenism beyond race, to all political action. People think 40%+ of this country doesn't vote because their is something wrong with them, it's become increasingly clear to me there's something wrong with those of us still thinking this process has our interest at heart. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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