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On May 27 2017 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:17 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Are you saying it is modern whites that are executing white imperialism? Are you saying opening a taco stand is similar to imperialism or something? Or are you saying that whites living today should be punished for what an earlier generation did? And you still haven't said what you are saying should happen instead. All you're saying is that culture needs to be respected and preserved, but its not like my home country has gone anywhere. It's just that people in the US are making restaurants based on food from my country. It's not remotely the same because, well, this is a totally different country. But if I went down South, I'd find plenty of totally authentic food. Why is it reasonable to expect places opened in the US would be true impressions of foreign food and only operated by foreign people? Let me help separate this for you, I'm not necessarily defending the particular thing happening in Oregon, but appropriating food is a common, real, and offensive practice. I am punished every day because white people still can't get over the fact that they enslaved people who looked like me. I don't really care if they don't get to appropriate cultures for their own profit without people demonstrating that they don't like it. Or that white people are "being punished for ancestors sins", like gtf over yourselves. Yes white imperialism is a modern practice, though I don't think appropriating a culture for a restaurant is very high on the list of problematic examples of the expansion of white imperialism.
It sounds like you are viewing this in a really distorted way. You are saying that you don't have a problem with these women being victimized because white people as a whole still have a glowing history. That's messed up. You are telling people to "get over yourselves" as if they aren't in a position to complain. All you are saying is that its offensive. You aren't explaining why or how or anything. You aren't even saying what you think should happen. All you are doing is finding an example of white people in particular being targeted, saying "yeah right, as if you live a crappy life or something" and leaving it at that. I have managed just fine, despite my ancestry and despite Portland's troubled past.
Overall, it feels like you let history distort your views of what is right and wrong current day. You carry the burden of "being punished" and use that as a reason to pretend there is some kind of struggle to see who gets screwed over the least, as if white people have had it so good for so long that it is not a big deal if they end up screwed over in some other way.
How is my culture damaged when a white person opens a restaurant with my country's food served in a US-appropriate way?
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On May 27 2017 03:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Remember 2000 pages ago we figured out the GH has a custom definition of racism that means black people cannot be racist because they are not 'the system'.
That is correct based on one definition of racism, which is oppression by the dominate power system. But I would never discuss racism with the average person in those terms because it is a rough idea to wrap your hands around. The exact word used to describe discrimination is not really that important to the party being discriminated against.
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Canada13399 Posts
On May 27 2017 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:17 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Are you saying it is modern whites that are executing white imperialism? Are you saying opening a taco stand is similar to imperialism or something? Or are you saying that whites living today should be punished for what an earlier generation did? And you still haven't said what you are saying should happen instead. All you're saying is that culture needs to be respected and preserved, but its not like my home country has gone anywhere. It's just that people in the US are making restaurants based on food from my country. It's not remotely the same because, well, this is a totally different country. But if I went down South, I'd find plenty of totally authentic food. Why is it reasonable to expect places opened in the US would be true impressions of foreign food and only operated by foreign people? Let me help separate this for you, I'm not necessarily defending the particular thing happening in Oregon, but appropriating food is a common, real, and offensive practice. I am punished every day because white people still can't get over the fact that they enslaved people who looked like me. I don't really care if they don't get to appropriate cultures for their own profit without people demonstrating that they don't like it. Or that white people are "being punished for ancestors sins", like gtf over yourselves. Yes white imperialism is a modern practice, though I don't think appropriating a culture for a restaurant is very high on the list of problematic examples of the expansion of white imperialism. Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:23 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 03:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:14 killa_robot wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. It's pretty racist to assume white people can't make mexican food. No, it's a statistical likelihood. That isn't to say that they are incapable, but it's more likely they are bad at it. But to then make a blanket assumption about white people doesn't make you any better than the correct portion of your 'statistical likelihood'. What about people who genuinely respect other cultures, and learn how to make their food properly? You acknowledge these people at no point, and it only serves to defeat your point. No, I said if they respect the culture than I'm fine with it, but I also wouldn't care if as a result of things like still not letting black people vote, habitually denying them their constitutional rights, destructive deportations, etc... white people were generally discouraged from doing it at all. And if that's what white people want to call hate-fueled discrimination, I'd say they have no damn clue what hate-fueled discrimination is in America.
Ok.
Can you tell me what I am allowed to enjoy as someone who has light coloured skin? cuz it sounds like I should go flagellate myself for the sins of my forefathers in Portugal and everything they did in Africa.
Because I like to cook food from other cultures and eat that food. So if that is racist, please inform me. What am I allowed to eat?
If I open a restaurant - what am I allowed to cook. Because I'm pretty sure if you put me into a box of "white food" that I am allowed to cook I would call that pretty racist and a little on the side of wanting to segregate me from the rest of the world in the name of ... I don't know what exactly.
Have white people done terrible things in the past due to imperialistic actions? Sure. Should we ignore every lesson we've learned to this day and just tit-for-tat with how we treat eachother? That won't fix anything.
I'm not about to pretend that racism doesn't exist but lets be fucking real here. If you want people to treat each other respectfully you should be a part of that activity and not go around saying some of the things you are. You are basically assuming all white people are horrible even people who want to effectively enslave and control and take over other people and their cultures. Thats kind of fucked up yo.
You updated your post saying the restaurant thing is minor. And I agree it is. But why harp on it so hard if you think there are bigger issues?
All anyone here is saying is the following:
Taking a list of restaurants, then putting them on a form because the owner is white or is assumed to be white (based on their name) and then calling on people to not visit them is fucked. I don't care where you come from, if you open a restaurant that isn't full of stereotypes and racist iconography on the wall you can do whatever you want with it. If the food is shit its shit. If its good its good. That is all that really matters. Its food and its a restaurant. Boycotting a restaurant because of the colour of the skin of the owner is wrong - full stop.
Boycotting that restaurant because everyone working there is given a nametag that says "juan" or "juanita" or because people are told to translate their names into a Spanish variant while the televisions are showing episodes of speedy gonzalez on repeat -- THAT makes sense. THATS offensive. But simply serving "non-white food" whatever that is isn't grounds for boycotting an establishment. ...
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On May 27 2017 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:17 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Are you saying it is modern whites that are executing white imperialism? Are you saying opening a taco stand is similar to imperialism or something? Or are you saying that whites living today should be punished for what an earlier generation did? And you still haven't said what you are saying should happen instead. All you're saying is that culture needs to be respected and preserved, but its not like my home country has gone anywhere. It's just that people in the US are making restaurants based on food from my country. It's not remotely the same because, well, this is a totally different country. But if I went down South, I'd find plenty of totally authentic food. Why is it reasonable to expect places opened in the US would be true impressions of foreign food and only operated by foreign people? Let me help separate this for you, I'm not necessarily defending the particular thing happening in Oregon, but appropriating food is a common, real, and offensive practice. I am punished every day because white people still can't get over the fact that they enslaved people who looked like me. I don't really care if they don't get to appropriate cultures for their own profit without people demonstrating that they don't like it. Or that white people are "being punished for ancestors sins", like gtf over yourselves. Yes white imperialism is a modern practice, though I don't think appropriating a culture for a restaurant is very high on the list of problematic examples of the expansion of white imperialism. It sounds like you are viewing this in a really distorted way. You are saying that you don't have a problem with these women being victimized because white people as a whole still have a glowing history. That's messed up. You are telling people to "get over yourselves" as if they aren't in a position to complain. All you are saying is that its offensive. You aren't explaining why or how or anything. You aren't even saying what you think should happen. All you are doing is finding an example of white people in particular being targeted, saying "yeah right, as if you live a crappy life or something" and leaving it at that. I have managed just fine, despite my ancestry and despite Portland's troubled past. Overall, it feels like you let history distort your views of what is right and wrong current day. You carry the burden of "being punished" and use that as a reason to pretend there is some kind of struggle to see who gets screwed over the least, as if white people have had it so good for so long that it is not a big deal if they end up screwed over in some other way. How is my culture damaged when a white person opens a restaurant with my country's food served in a US-appropriate way?
I'm saying these restaurant owners (the one's I'm describing, not just any white owned restaurant) don't give a shit about the discrimination in this country, except when they experience it, fuck people like that. Of course if someone is working hard and doing a good job and serving food that's appropriately prepared and presented (don't call it something it's not) people shouldn't go out of their way to punish them as collateral damage.
But we are literally murdering children as "collateral damage" for some pretty twisted reasons, the restaurant owners and most of the people trying to defend them spend more time getting in a hissy about this than those kids.
What is your culture anyway? And do you pass for white?
On May 27 2017 03:35 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:17 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Are you saying it is modern whites that are executing white imperialism? Are you saying opening a taco stand is similar to imperialism or something? Or are you saying that whites living today should be punished for what an earlier generation did? And you still haven't said what you are saying should happen instead. All you're saying is that culture needs to be respected and preserved, but its not like my home country has gone anywhere. It's just that people in the US are making restaurants based on food from my country. It's not remotely the same because, well, this is a totally different country. But if I went down South, I'd find plenty of totally authentic food. Why is it reasonable to expect places opened in the US would be true impressions of foreign food and only operated by foreign people? Let me help separate this for you, I'm not necessarily defending the particular thing happening in Oregon, but appropriating food is a common, real, and offensive practice. I am punished every day because white people still can't get over the fact that they enslaved people who looked like me. I don't really care if they don't get to appropriate cultures for their own profit without people demonstrating that they don't like it. Or that white people are "being punished for ancestors sins", like gtf over yourselves. Yes white imperialism is a modern practice, though I don't think appropriating a culture for a restaurant is very high on the list of problematic examples of the expansion of white imperialism. On May 27 2017 03:23 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 03:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:14 killa_robot wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. It's pretty racist to assume white people can't make mexican food. No, it's a statistical likelihood. That isn't to say that they are incapable, but it's more likely they are bad at it. But to then make a blanket assumption about white people doesn't make you any better than the correct portion of your 'statistical likelihood'. What about people who genuinely respect other cultures, and learn how to make their food properly? You acknowledge these people at no point, and it only serves to defeat your point. No, I said if they respect the culture than I'm fine with it, but I also wouldn't care if as a result of things like still not letting black people vote, habitually denying them their constitutional rights, destructive deportations, etc... white people were generally discouraged from doing it at all. And if that's what white people want to call hate-fueled discrimination, I'd say they have no damn clue what hate-fueled discrimination is in America. Ok. Can you tell me what I am allowed to enjoy as someone who has light coloured skin? cuz it sounds like I should go flagellate myself for the sins of my forefathers in Portugal and everything they did in Africa. Because I like to cook food from other cultures and eat that food. So if that is racist, please inform me. What am I allowed to eat? If I open a restaurant - what am I allowed to cook. Because I'm pretty sure if you put me into a box of "white food" that I am allowed to cook I would call that pretty racist and a little on the side of wanting to segregate me from the rest of the world in the name of ... I don't know what exactly. Have white people done terrible things in the past due to imperialistic actions? Sure. Should we ignore every lesson we've learned to this day and just tit-for-tat with how we treat eachother? That won't fix anything. I'm not about to pretend that racism doesn't exist but lets be fucking real here. If you want people to treat each other respectfully you should be a part of that activity and not go around saying some of the things you are. You are basically assuming all white people are horrible even people who want to effectively enslave and control and take over other people and their cultures. Thats kind of fucked up yo.
Well first, let me allay your concern a bit by saying we all do racist things (not raycist but that's not important), so if cooking and eating a burrito is racist (I don't really think it is) that wouldn't be the end of the world.
There's a million miles between self flagellation and recognition/addressing the consequences of our histories.
I'm saying you can cook whatever you want to cook. Just make sure you are doing it with recognition of the cultures it comes from. I'm not saying all white people want to enslave and control/take over other people and their cultures, but there are a lot of white people who do and a lot of white people who don't seem very bothered by it.
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To me this seems like GH has some issues in his life and tries to use the color of his skin as an excuse for them and a free pass to be angry at people who happened to be born with light skin. And he somehow thinks that this is the right way to make things better, for no logical reason. I don't think there is not much room for rational argument with him.
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What bothers me about this Oregon thing is that it will be on every single anti-SJW, conservative meme thread in the universe. I will be hearing about it all over twitter. But it is really double-digits worth of activists in one town being nuts. This story stinks of exactly the kind of anti-pluralism agitprop that rightists can latch onto in order to ignore real issues, like the Trump budget, AHCA, or Trump walking on our NATO commitments while sucking up to the Saudis.
To me, this is just hard identitarian lefties being the nuts they are. I don't think they matter and I ignore them. But these handful of identitiarians give all the cover in the world to shitbags like Crowder, OReilly, Hannity, all of the Sinclair broadcast empire, and FOX so that they can get their audience to focus on a handful of inconsequential (and wrong) activists instead of monumental issues at the federal level.
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On May 27 2017 01:54 Mohdoo wrote:This test failing would be a really, really bad thing.
With current technology and infrastructure I really doubt they will shoot one down successfully. Even a "dumb" ICBM trajectory is quite difficult to intercept with any precision. I dunno why announce this because our tech just isn't there yet and there's little likelihood it will be any time soon.
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On May 27 2017 03:37 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:31 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:17 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Are you saying it is modern whites that are executing white imperialism? Are you saying opening a taco stand is similar to imperialism or something? Or are you saying that whites living today should be punished for what an earlier generation did? And you still haven't said what you are saying should happen instead. All you're saying is that culture needs to be respected and preserved, but its not like my home country has gone anywhere. It's just that people in the US are making restaurants based on food from my country. It's not remotely the same because, well, this is a totally different country. But if I went down South, I'd find plenty of totally authentic food. Why is it reasonable to expect places opened in the US would be true impressions of foreign food and only operated by foreign people? Let me help separate this for you, I'm not necessarily defending the particular thing happening in Oregon, but appropriating food is a common, real, and offensive practice. I am punished every day because white people still can't get over the fact that they enslaved people who looked like me. I don't really care if they don't get to appropriate cultures for their own profit without people demonstrating that they don't like it. Or that white people are "being punished for ancestors sins", like gtf over yourselves. Yes white imperialism is a modern practice, though I don't think appropriating a culture for a restaurant is very high on the list of problematic examples of the expansion of white imperialism. It sounds like you are viewing this in a really distorted way. You are saying that you don't have a problem with these women being victimized because white people as a whole still have a glowing history. That's messed up. You are telling people to "get over yourselves" as if they aren't in a position to complain. All you are saying is that its offensive. You aren't explaining why or how or anything. You aren't even saying what you think should happen. All you are doing is finding an example of white people in particular being targeted, saying "yeah right, as if you live a crappy life or something" and leaving it at that. I have managed just fine, despite my ancestry and despite Portland's troubled past. Overall, it feels like you let history distort your views of what is right and wrong current day. You carry the burden of "being punished" and use that as a reason to pretend there is some kind of struggle to see who gets screwed over the least, as if white people have had it so good for so long that it is not a big deal if they end up screwed over in some other way. How is my culture damaged when a white person opens a restaurant with my country's food served in a US-appropriate way? I'm saying these restaurant owners (the one's I'm describing, not just any white owned restaurant) don't give a shit about the discrimination in this country, except when they experience it, fuck people like that. Of course if someone is working hard and doing a good job and serving food that's appropriately prepared and presented (don't call it something it's not) people shouldn't go out of their way to punish them as collateral damage. But we are literally murdering children as "collateral damage" for some pretty twisted reasons, the restaurant owners and most of the people trying to defend them spend more time getting in a hissy about this than those kids. What is your culture anyway? And do you pass for white?
And as usual, discussions about race with GH always lead to "dead children in the street".
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I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL
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On May 27 2017 03:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:04 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 02:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 02:50 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 02:28 Tachion wrote:On May 27 2017 01:04 TheDwf wrote:On May 27 2017 00:58 Tachion wrote:On May 27 2017 00:46 Mohdoo wrote:I thought I'd share a local cultural issue my area is struggling with right now. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fiLUFcu.png) There's an effort right now in Portland to shame any businesses that are operated by a person belonging to a culture/race other than the type of food they are selling. They essentially believe that when a white person opens a Mexican restaurant, they are hijacking Mexican culture and exploiting it in a way that perpetuates subjugation of minorities. 2 women who opened a food cart were shamed into closing because they had talked about how they stole the recipes from people they met in mexico. Now, this is beyond ridiculous to me. This is like some sort of bizarre, exaggerated version of affirmative action. This is like putting a cap on the number of white people admitted into a university, rather than giving minorities an extra chance at admittance. Link: https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriationI've had some pretty extensive discussions with people on Facebook, and it really seems to mostly boil down to the fact that minorities have had a long history of exploitation and we need to let them have their own culture. We need to allow them to utilize their history and recipes and whatnot instead of going into the same business. Since Mexicans already struggle to get business loans, a white person deciding to open a Mexican restaurant makes the existing difficulty of being a Mexican business owner even worse. However, people from Mexico historically being treated worse than people from France doesn’t mean it is suddenly worse to open a Mexican restaurant than a French restaurant. If I lived in south America for a few years, moved back here, and started a restaurant based on the food I learned about, that is clearly ethical. And I wouldn’t say someone should have to spend some years in a country to earn the right to cook meals from that culture. The fact that minorities have a harder time securing business loans does not change the underlying ethics of cultural exchange. Especially for something as dynamic and fluid as recipes. I am very sad to see such misguided angst. At the end of the day, this is an extremely ineffective, hostile, polarizing method of dealing with racial inequality. This kind of behavior makes me increasingly skeptical of this wing of my party. This isn't even effective. It is just an expression of anger. The left's version of the far right. Instead of racism they have...well...I guess this is just racism as well isn't it? Nope, sectarian rancor at past or present domination (triggering outrageous reactions) isn't the same as the actual domination. They are specifically targeting white-owned restaurants with the intention to discriminate against them. They aren't collecting the names of black, mexican, or asian owned businesses that they think are appropriating cultures that are not theirs. This isn't an exercise in stopping cultural appropriation, it's an exercise in finding a way to discriminate against white people on the pretext that it's to empower minorities. I don't even know how you can argue opening a restaurant is any kind of cultural appropriation. Sharing a cuisine with people is only a celebration of that cuisine and culture. That's only hate-fueled discrimination. No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?" It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. Ok, so if I were an aspiring chef that wished to celebrate Mexican and Asian cuisines in a restaurant I planned to open, does the fact that I'm white now make that impossible? Does that make it okay when people decide to harass me and my business because I'm not Mexican and Asian? People need to check their baggage at the door. No, but you're kidding yourself if you think people are "celebrating cuisine" (which isn't the entirety of the culture). Here's the two ways these typically work out and why people are mad (hint: it's not because they are white). The white owners exploit the people from said culture (particularly popular with Mexican/Chinese restaurants exploiting immigrants legal and otherwise). OR They fill the place with white people who just do a terrible imitation of the food from the culture they are appropriating it from. White owners suffering from "hate-fueled discrimination" is the least bad and least common of those circumstances. On May 27 2017 02:56 Mohdoo wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 00:31 ticklishmusic wrote:On May 27 2017 00:12 Plansix wrote:
The numbers are coming out of the Montana race and it looks like conservative super PACs dumped like 6 million into the race the instant it started to look close. Spending by the RNC and DNC looked similar. I can't find an article with exact figures. let this be a lesson on why the dems/left unilaterally disarming wrt PAC's may be a poor idea.though still, quist was a pretty long shot to win. he certainly seemed like a good candidate in many ways though. I know you know this isn't true which is why you put "may". Democrats could have put more money in if they wanted, part of the problem is that the DNC/Dem Leadership is so universally hated outside of the coasts they are essentially useless, other than leeching money from Democrats in those areas. Also PAC's are basically fine. Darkmoney superPAC's like Hillary is heading up are a destructive force on democracy no matter who wields them. On May 27 2017 02:41 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 02:28 Tachion wrote:On May 27 2017 01:04 TheDwf wrote:On May 27 2017 00:58 Tachion wrote:On May 27 2017 00:46 Mohdoo wrote:I thought I'd share a local cultural issue my area is struggling with right now. There's an effort right now in Portland to shame any businesses that are operated by a person belonging to a culture/race other than the type of food they are selling. They essentially believe that when a white person opens a Mexican restaurant, they are hijacking Mexican culture and exploiting it in a way that perpetuates subjugation of minorities. 2 women who opened a food cart were shamed into closing because they had talked about how they stole the recipes from people they met in mexico. Now, this is beyond ridiculous to me. This is like some sort of bizarre, exaggerated version of affirmative action. This is like putting a cap on the number of white people admitted into a university, rather than giving minorities an extra chance at admittance. Link: https://pdx.eater.com/2017/5/22/15677760/portland-kooks-burrito-cultural-appropriationI've had some pretty extensive discussions with people on Facebook, and it really seems to mostly boil down to the fact that minorities have had a long history of exploitation and we need to let them have their own culture. We need to allow them to utilize their history and recipes and whatnot instead of going into the same business. Since Mexicans already struggle to get business loans, a white person deciding to open a Mexican restaurant makes the existing difficulty of being a Mexican business owner even worse. However, people from Mexico historically being treated worse than people from France doesn’t mean it is suddenly worse to open a Mexican restaurant than a French restaurant. If I lived in south America for a few years, moved back here, and started a restaurant based on the food I learned about, that is clearly ethical. And I wouldn’t say someone should have to spend some years in a country to earn the right to cook meals from that culture. The fact that minorities have a harder time securing business loans does not change the underlying ethics of cultural exchange. Especially for something as dynamic and fluid as recipes. I am very sad to see such misguided angst. At the end of the day, this is an extremely ineffective, hostile, polarizing method of dealing with racial inequality. This kind of behavior makes me increasingly skeptical of this wing of my party. This isn't even effective. It is just an expression of anger. The left's version of the far right. Instead of racism they have...well...I guess this is just racism as well isn't it? Nope, sectarian rancor at past or present domination (triggering outrageous reactions) isn't the same as the actual domination. They are specifically targeting white-owned restaurants with the intention to discriminate against them. They aren't collecting the names of black, mexican, or asian owned businesses that they think are appropriating cultures that are not theirs. This isn't an exercise in stopping cultural appropriation, it's an exercise in finding a way to discriminate against white people on the pretext that it's to empower minorities. I don't even know how you can argue opening a restaurant is any kind of cultural appropriation. Sharing a cuisine with people is only a celebration of that cuisine and culture. That's only hate-fueled discrimination. No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?" Why in the world is there any need to "recognize" the culture besides serving the food? Its a restaurant, not a historical monument. People are selling tacos. It's not like some kind of cultural patent is being violated. A history of hardship surrounding a group of people does relate. These are two totally separate issues. This is how white people feel about pretty much everything they've stolen/appropriated/destroyed for their own benefit. I think you need to seriously take a step back from this issue, if you think a white person is incapable of touching any kind of culture without destroying it. How are you supposed to overcome racial barriers if you elect to enforce them so staunchly yourself? I don't think white people are incapable, I just think they have about 1000 years of bad habits.
We'll start to overcome racial barriers when white people genuinely stop thinking they are a race. Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:04 ticklishmusic wrote:
a lot of the 'authentic' asian owned asian restaurants have latino people working in them (heck, a lot of restaurants period do). how am i supposed to feel about that? do the people making the food mean anything vs. the owner, head chef, floor staff or bartender? I mean that's up to you, but I sincerely doubt there are many Latino owned Asian restaurants. The PNW is FULL of Asian joints and I've never come across one that was not Asian/White owned. Now I have noticed the food and the origin of the Asian owner are frequently different (Basically any Asian food is Korean owned here with a spattering of Japanese and Chinese folks) American racism is enough for me, I don't know enough about Asian-on-Asian racism (other than it's extremely prevalent) to go beyond that.
Aren't you in this very post describing them as a race? Seems kinda hypocritical.
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On May 27 2017 03:14 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. It's pretty racist to assume white people can't make mexican food.
Agreed...
One question I asked myself regarding this kind of situation is whether people are more upset at the appropriation of the cuisine or of the culture behind the cuisine. for example is it more easily to be offended by an asian restaurant with asian decorations and theme, or an asian restaurant that has a non-descript theme and asian food. Because its not like people are all upset at italian restaurants that are run, and staffed by mexicans, of which there are plenty, but maybe its just the ownership aspect that ticks people off.
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White fragility is out in spades today.
On May 27 2017 03:38 opisska wrote:
To me this seems like GH has some issues in his life and tries to use the color of his skin as an excuse for them and a free pass to be angry at people who happened to be born with light skin. And he somehow thinks that this is the right way to make things better, for no logical reason. I don't think there is not much room for rational argument with him.
I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what any of this stuff means being in Poland. I understand how that could lead to such an opinion.
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Norway28742 Posts
On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not.
But what if I make really really awesome and genuine mexican food? What if I don't have any sombreros or cactuses or whatever other stuff white people associate with mexico in the restaurant, I just really love tomatillo salsa and stuff?
It's just, I'm all for recognizing that imperialism gave white people huge advantages and I'm all for reversing those. I'd vote for the Norwegian party that pledged to give 10% of GDP to development aid in a heartbeat. But this particular thing is one of those, dude, I am by no means responsible for imperialism. Saying that white people can't make mexican food is like saying black people can't make pizza. And sure, I can see how the 'authentic' brand shouldn't be used by people who make inauthentic food, but I just don't see how ethnicity should be what defines this. If a white person lived in mexico for 20 years and makes the best mexican food in a city, isn't that just great? The best, most authentic japanese restaurant in sweden is created by some guy who spent years working in a fancy japanese restaurant in spain..
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On May 27 2017 03:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. But what if I make really really awesome and genuine mexican food? What if I don't have any sombreros or cactuses or whatever other stuff white people associate with mexico in the restaurant, I just really love tomatillo salsa and stuff? It's just, I'm all for recognizing that imperialism gave white people huge advantages and I'm all for reversing those. I'd vote for the Norwegian party that pledged to give 10% of GDP to development aid in a heartbeat. But this particular thing is one of those, dude, I am by no means responsible for imperialism. Saying that white people can't make mexican food is like saying black people can't make pizza. And sure, I can see how the 'authentic' brand shouldn't be used by people who make inauthentic food, but I just don't see how ethnicity should be what defines this. If a white person lived in mexico for 20 years and makes the best mexican food in a city, isn't that just great? The best, most authentic japanese restaurant in sweden is created by some who spent years working in a fancy japanese restaurant in spain..
I regularly mention how as a Black american I and many others of us live in a lingering fear about whether today is the day we're one of the countless black Americans who is going to have their constitutional rights stripped, be abused by the people we pay to protect us, be discriminated for my skin at jobs, restaurants, hotels, the ballot box, etc...
Does that give you any idea how all this hub bub about white people being able to sell whatever cultures food is absurd to me?
That being said, I said sure, just take some time to be appreciative (beyond you're taste buds) for the culture you're taking it from. It's the least you could do.
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It is totally possible for white people to appreciate other cultures without distorting them. Just not very plausible based on history. I'd classify the restaraunt owning as probably racist but pretty much harmless. There's way more important things to deal with on that front than something that doesn't actively hurt people.
I'd be more likely to complain about states having native american names than I would inappropriately labelled food. And I'm not very likely to care about the former either.
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Canada13399 Posts
On May 27 2017 03:47 GreenHorizons wrote:White fragility is out in spades today. Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:38 opisska wrote:
To me this seems like GH has some issues in his life and tries to use the color of his skin as an excuse for them and a free pass to be angry at people who happened to be born with light skin. And he somehow thinks that this is the right way to make things better, for no logical reason. I don't think there is not much room for rational argument with him. I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what any of this stuff means being in Poland. I understand how that could lead to such an opinion.
What do you mean white fragility?
You're outright calling white people imperialists who want to destroy every culture that isn't white (while at the same time saying white isn't a race)
I hope you can step back for a second and actually think about this.
I mean you say white isn't a race then you start painting every person with light skin with the same brush. I don't get it dude.
On May 27 2017 03:51 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. But what if I make really really awesome and genuine mexican food? What if I don't have any sombreros or cactuses or whatever other stuff white people associate with mexico in the restaurant, I just really love tomatillo salsa and stuff? It's just, I'm all for recognizing that imperialism gave white people huge advantages and I'm all for reversing those. I'd vote for the Norwegian party that pledged to give 10% of GDP to development aid in a heartbeat. But this particular thing is one of those, dude, I am by no means responsible for imperialism. Saying that white people can't make mexican food is like saying black people can't make pizza. And sure, I can see how the 'authentic' brand shouldn't be used by people who make inauthentic food, but I just don't see how ethnicity should be what defines this. If a white person lived in mexico for 20 years and makes the best mexican food in a city, isn't that just great? The best, most authentic japanese restaurant in sweden is created by some who spent years working in a fancy japanese restaurant in spain.. I regularly mention how as a Black american I and many others of us live in a lingering fear about whether today is the day we're one of the countless black Americans who is going to have their constitutional rights stripped, be abused by the people we pay to protect us, be discriminated for my skin at jobs, restaurants, hotels, the ballot box, etc... Does that give you any idea how all this hub bub about white people being able to sell whatever cultures food is absurd to me? That being said, I said sure, just take some time to be appreciative (beyond you're taste buds) for the culture you're taking it from. It's the least you could do.
But ... you're the one instigating a bunch of stuff in the thread.
You could easily say "food culture and whether its appropriation or not isn't a problem compared to the myriad other issues faced in this country" - but you didn't. You went on a tirade about white imperialism and fragility ...
I'm not saying you can't have a valid point and I'm not denying the history of white imperialism worldwide and especially in the USA, but like, you could use a generally less harsh tone. Hope you understand.
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On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL
Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture.
The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
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On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH:
1) Talking about dead kids.
2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead.
3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies.
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On May 27 2017 03:52 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:47 GreenHorizons wrote:White fragility is out in spades today. On May 27 2017 03:38 opisska wrote:
To me this seems like GH has some issues in his life and tries to use the color of his skin as an excuse for them and a free pass to be angry at people who happened to be born with light skin. And he somehow thinks that this is the right way to make things better, for no logical reason. I don't think there is not much room for rational argument with him. I wouldn't expect you to have any idea what any of this stuff means being in Poland. I understand how that could lead to such an opinion. What do you mean white fragility? You're outright calling white people imperialists who want to destroy every culture that isn't white (while at the same time saying white isn't a race) I hope you can step back for a second and actually think about this. I mean you say white isn't a race then you start painting every person with light skin with the same brush. I don't get it dude.
Alright, so basically this?
White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates
them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection
builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering
the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility.
White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes
intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include
the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such
as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors,
in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.
Source
Not all, but yes, white people are still very much acting in Imperialistic ways around the world. I'm basically always talking about white Americans when I say "white people" (It's the US politics thread) but sometimes it's equally apt beyond that qualifier. But of course there's a wide history of various white cultures from around the world.
I'm with Baldwin on us desperately needing a white history month.
But ... you're the one instigating a bunch of stuff in the thread.
You could easily say "food culture and whether its appropriation or not isn't a problem compared to the myriad other issues faced in this country" - but you didn't. You went on a tirade about white imperialism and fragility ...
I'm not saying you can't have a valid point and I'm not denying the history of white imperialism worldwide and especially in the USA, but like, you could use a generally less harsh tone. Hope you understand.
I did say something to that effect a couple times, but I can understand how it could be missed.
@Plansix I use this tone because it's the matter of fact tone used about sooooooooooooo much stuff here that's only widely accepted as fact by white men.
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On May 27 2017 03:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 03:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 03:02 Liquid`Drone wrote:On May 27 2017 02:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
No they are taking a culture that was likely discriminated against and abused, appropriating their food culture for profit, and often do a terrible job of recognizing the culture beyond "let's sell Mexican food, people expect Mariachi music right?"
It's low on my list personally, but to hear people cry of "hate-fueled discrimination" against white people, that's just hilarious. I generally favor your perspective on stuff like this and think it's interesting.. I'm not agreeing that this is 'hate-fueled discrimination against white people', and I can see how a white person making 'AUTHENTIC MEXICAN FOOD' and then serving tex-mex while playing Colombian music or whatever can be like, if not really offensive, then not entirely right. But if I'm a white guy and I think south east asian cuisine is just the best, can I not make a south east asian inspired restaurant because I'm white without it being cultural appropriation? Outrage over people from a certain ethnicity cooking food from another ethnicity just seems to be entirely against the idea of a non-racist society.. First, if the punishment for white imperialism was that they couldn't imitate other cultures food for their personal profit, that would be a pretty small price to pay. Setting that aside, sure, but don't think you can appropriate the food, without any regard for the culture. A white person giving a restaurant a Mexican name, calling it "authentic Mexican" then hiring a bunch of white people to make bland imitation burritos is offensive and POC are going to tell you whether white people want to hear it or not. But what if I make really really awesome and genuine mexican food? What if I don't have any sombreros or cactuses or whatever other stuff white people associate with mexico in the restaurant, I just really love tomatillo salsa and stuff? It's just, I'm all for recognizing that imperialism gave white people huge advantages and I'm all for reversing those. I'd vote for the Norwegian party that pledged to give 10% of GDP to development aid in a heartbeat. But this particular thing is one of those, dude, I am by no means responsible for imperialism. Saying that white people can't make mexican food is like saying black people can't make pizza. And sure, I can see how the 'authentic' brand shouldn't be used by people who make inauthentic food, but I just don't see how ethnicity should be what defines this. If a white person lived in mexico for 20 years and makes the best mexican food in a city, isn't that just great? The best, most authentic japanese restaurant in sweden is created by some who spent years working in a fancy japanese restaurant in spain..
Speaking of japan and authentic food there is actually a governing body of chefs who actually certify cooks at being genuine and authentic (washoku). to date, very few (last time i heard it was in the single digits), of those certified were non japanese. They have started to open that up in order to bring more authentic food to the market. I believe italy and france were dabbling in a similar practice.
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