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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On May 27 2017 04:27 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:21 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. And I love having actual discussions with people to broaden my understanding on the issue, because it's something deeply ingrained in the US, even now. But I can't have a discussion with you if you go into it assuming I am the evil white man, and that viciously attacking my skin color is the answer to all your problems. That's when I walk away. ^ This is white fragility. I don't assume you're an evil white man. Your skin color is not the answer to all of my problems. I never said anything to the sort. And all I ever talked about is why the sharing of culture through food is a wonderful thing, and should not be tainted with identity politics. I tried to have reasonable discussion with you, but it continually oscillates between being about white people and not being about white people. Figure out what your point is, figure out what you're really looking for in a discussion, and then come back.
I'm not going to coddle you. You accused me of saying you're a "evil white man" and "viciously attacking your skin color" two things you completely fabricated in your mind. That is textbook white fragility. I know what my point is whether you want to recognize it is on you.
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On May 27 2017 04:28 Reaps wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:23 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:19 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:13 killa_robot wrote:
Honestly, people that look at the western world and act like it's the pinnacle of racism are pretty ignorant to the rest of the world. I would say that the western world has done the most to inflict its racism on the rest of the world. By that specific metric, they are the leader in both reach and length of time. Maybe in reach with regards to sheer distance of the globe its happened to sure. But lets not pretend we arent in our own bubble on this topic. I mean tribalism in other parts of the world has resulted in a lot of horrible genocides based on plot of land or language. Personally I am only concerned with how shitty my culture is to other races. Who is the worst isn’t really a thing I will care about or will impact my actions. Don't really know what to say to this.. to each his own i guess. Personally i condemn any "shitty" action from any race or culture. But then again i consider myself a "moderate".
Of course. I’ll discussion my feelings about the practices of any other culture. But that isn’t what we are talking about here. We are discussing racism in our own culture(US, white). And the common excuse that is thrown up is “but look at this other culture, which is worse”. That should never been an excuse to stop talking about a problem in your own back yard.
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On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible.
The last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owners to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys?
As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. Food trucks and doughnuts were nice. Meh, 5/10 would not recommend.
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On May 27 2017 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not going to coddle you. You accused me of saying you're a "evil white man" and "viciously attacking your skin color" two things you completely fabricated in your mind. That is textbook white fragility. I know what my point is whether you want to recognize it is on you.
This entire argument started when you attacked my post saying how white people have historically appropriated and destroyed so much of other cultures. I was defending the act of sharing cultures through food, and condemning the oppression of someone because they serve other-national food in their establishments. My point doesn't care about the color of your skin. If you're a black person who wants to open a pizza joint, that's great. If you're a Japanese person who wants to serve Latin American cuisine, that's great too. And it's not cool to use identity politics to destroy one of the best mechanisms for cultural blending that we have.
You're the one that made it all about white people, and how horrible they've been throughout history. Relentlessly attacking white people in your posts, then slapping me with your "white fragility" label when I disagree with your hypocritical argument is exactly why we can't have a good discussion.
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These culture/racism discussions drive me crazy. None of this is law! Freedom of association is guaranteed! There aren't going to be any right or wrong answers as to what cultural choices people make. I guess this is politics, kind of, but it is the lamest, most distracting form of politics. There is no way any of this appropriation nonsense becomes law in any meaningful capacity. Even if you win an argument over what the right cultural actions should be ... who cares? All you get is feeling like you are better than somebody else. Argggg
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Canada13389 Posts
On May 27 2017 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:27 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 04:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:21 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. And I love having actual discussions with people to broaden my understanding on the issue, because it's something deeply ingrained in the US, even now. But I can't have a discussion with you if you go into it assuming I am the evil white man, and that viciously attacking my skin color is the answer to all your problems. That's when I walk away. ^ This is white fragility. I don't assume you're an evil white man. Your skin color is not the answer to all of my problems. I never said anything to the sort. And all I ever talked about is why the sharing of culture through food is a wonderful thing, and should not be tainted with identity politics. I tried to have reasonable discussion with you, but it continually oscillates between being about white people and not being about white people. Figure out what your point is, figure out what you're really looking for in a discussion, and then come back. I'm not going to coddle you. You accused me of saying you're a "evil white man" and "viciously attacking your skin color" two things you completely fabricated in your mind. That is textbook white fragility. I know what my point is whether you want to recognize it is on you.
Just be less combative in tone, and stop being hypocritical.
"I don't think white people are incapable, I just think they have about 1000 years of bad habits.
We'll start to overcome racial barriers when white people genuinely stop thinking they are a race. "
If you think overcoming racial barriers involves white people stopping to think they're a race - then don't paint all white people with one brush in how you write things.
You say white people are capable of addressing racism issues but then say but not really cuz they've had 1000 years to do it and haven't yet.
Like, those kinds of qualifications are things people do to say offensive things then paint them as not bad.
X race people are more than capable of not doing "Y" but they have shown "Z" amount of time doing it
Then when people confront you on this thought process you point to white fragility as being a way to ignore the conversation. Because any discussion of race creates stress and all white people ignore these discussions because they don't like stress.
Just pointing and yelling "white fragility" doesn't absolve you of your tone and subtext of what you write here.
If you want to talk about institutional racism - do it. I think that is a great discussion to deal with. But you're just generalizing about things and people and complaining that they generalize about you -_-
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On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women.
The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it.
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On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it.
I would love to end actual racism, not your fantasy version.
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On May 27 2017 04:41 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture.
The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. I would love to end actual racism, not your fantasy version.
The only person living in a fantasy is you and your camp who believe racism is exclusively burning crosses and lynching black folks. As long as that is a prominent belief racism will never go away because you choose to keep it alive.
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Former House Speaker John Boehner gave President Donald Trump's young presidency low marks at an event Wednesday, saying that other than getting the House to pass a health care bill, "everything else he's done has been a complete disaster."
"He's still learning how to be president," Boehner said during an appearance as the keynote speaker for the KPMG Global Energy Conference, according to a recap from RigZone.com.
Boehner also said that his hopes for tax reform had dimmed, calling the preliminary discussions that are going on "just a bunch of happy talk."
"I was a little more optimistic about it early in the year; now my odds are 60/40 ... The border adjustment tax is deader than a doornail," he said, referencing a controversial plank of the tax plan currently being sketched by House GOP leaders.
www.cnn.com
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On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it.
What you see as an 'inability to discuss' others see as something else. Put this in historical context. The liberal, anti racist movement has been pushing and pushing for decades now and made huge progress. They are now pushing further than people are willing to accept, pushing into everybody's lives and telling us we're all racists. As soon as this started happening we get Trump. The problem is the total lack of self reflection from the activists whoa re really pushing this. They should be looking at themselves, but instead their totally blinkered mindset just sees this as proof that everyone's racist, and even more racist than they had previously thought.
No-one seems to realize that is the obnoxiously invasive nature of these views and this activism that is the biggest problem here.
This, by the way, is exactly what some morons on the right said was going to happen 30 years ago. They were fascist right wingers, mischaracterizing the left as some kind of idiotic, evil movement that wants to control everyone's thought processes and infringe on freedom of speech and thought.
Lo and behold, the last thing I expected would be that 30 years later the left has somehow worked itself into a position of proving them right.
By the way, I have never been to America so I'm not speaking of American culture specifically, just some observations from a more European point of view.
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On May 27 2017 04:44 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:41 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH:
1) Talking about dead kids.
2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead.
3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. I would love to end actual racism, not your fantasy version. The only person living in a fantasy is you and your camp who believe racism is exclusively burning crosses and lynching black folks. As long as that is a prominent belief racism will never go away because you choose to keep it alive.
I think racism is alive and well in the USA, but cultural appropriation? LOL give me a break. Y'all are crazy. The people who hated obama because he was black, yeah, that is racist and exists. Let's not go full portland here.
Also, GH has been making racist af comments non stop.
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On May 27 2017 04:39 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:27 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 04:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:21 NewSunshine wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:39 Reaps wrote:
I'm surprised people are being so lenient with GH, didn't expect these kind of comments on TL Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture. The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension. I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. And I love having actual discussions with people to broaden my understanding on the issue, because it's something deeply ingrained in the US, even now. But I can't have a discussion with you if you go into it assuming I am the evil white man, and that viciously attacking my skin color is the answer to all your problems. That's when I walk away. ^ This is white fragility. I don't assume you're an evil white man. Your skin color is not the answer to all of my problems. I never said anything to the sort. And all I ever talked about is why the sharing of culture through food is a wonderful thing, and should not be tainted with identity politics. I tried to have reasonable discussion with you, but it continually oscillates between being about white people and not being about white people. Figure out what your point is, figure out what you're really looking for in a discussion, and then come back. I'm not going to coddle you. You accused me of saying you're a "evil white man" and "viciously attacking your skin color" two things you completely fabricated in your mind. That is textbook white fragility. I know what my point is whether you want to recognize it is on you. Just be less combative in tone, and stop being hypocritical. Show nested quote +"I don't think white people are incapable, I just think they have about 1000 years of bad habits.
We'll start to overcome racial barriers when white people genuinely stop thinking they are a race. " If you think overcoming racial barriers involves white people stopping to think they're a race - then don't paint all white people with one brush in how you write things. You say white people are capable of addressing racism issues but then say but not really cuz they've had 1000 years to do it and haven't yet. Like, those kinds of qualifications are things people do to say offensive things then paint them as not bad. X race people are more than capable of not doing "Y" but they have shown "Z" amount of time doing it Then when people confront you on this thought process you point to white fragility as being a way to ignore the conversation. Because any discussion of race creates stress and all white people ignore these discussions because they don't like stress. Just pointing and yelling "white fragility" doesn't absolve you of your tone and subtext of what you write here. If you want to talk about institutional racism - do it. I think that is a great discussion to deal with. But you're just generalizing about things and people and complaining that they generalize about you -_-
No one is here for that. Since I have to go I'll try to wrap in Sunrise's comment.
My tone is equally combative as the certitude asserted in the necessity for there to be a conversation. If they were your rights/freedoms/lives being threatened you would advocate violent resistance, but America and white people have accepted a habitual and systemic level of social and physical violence to black and brown people that they would never accept were it reversed.
The casual nature with which almost everyone here looks over that issue is offensive and obnoxious and I guess it's hard for me to believe that people haven't figured that out yet, so it feels like they are intentionally being assholes.
Though folks like Jock displayed there was plenty worse lurking.
That being said, I try to presume ignorance as long as I can, but I think the "conversations" that have to include me not offending someone who suggests real racism ended 60 years ago belong about 40 years in the past.
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On May 27 2017 04:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture.
The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. What you see as an 'inability to discuss' others see as something else. Put this in historical context. The liberal, anti racist movement has been pushing and pushing for decades now and made huge progress. They are now pushing further than people are willing to accept, pushing into everybody's lives and telling us we're all racists. As soon as this started happening we get Trump. The problem is the total lack of self reflection from the activists whoa re really pushing this. They should be looking at themselves, but instead their totally blinkered mindset just sees this as proof that everyone's racist, and even more racist than they had previously thought. No-one seems to realize that is the obnoxiously invasive nature of these views and this activism that is the biggest problem here. This, by the way, is exactly what some morons on the right said was going to happen 30 years ago. They were fascist right wingers, mischaracterizing the left as some kind of idiotic, evil movement that wants to control everyone's thought processes and infringe on freedom of speech and thought. Lo and behold, the last thing I expected would be that 30 years later the left has somehow worked itself into a position of proving them right.
Sadly, i agree 100%. It's insane what is happening to politics right now, just doesn't seem to be any middle ground or people even willing to give any. One extreme breeds another.
Might disagree with you in the UK thread about certain issues but you're spot on here.
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These conversations are always silly to me. 'You are complaining about that when this is happening!!' So? Complaining about complaining is a great past time for people but it gets a little old. Put your support wherever you feel it is most needed, or closest to you. For most, it is for things they are personally affected by. So for black people in America, 'shooting us in the streets' might be worth it to you. But please put stuff in perspective. Maybe 100 black people have been killed so far this year by the police. Of those, some percentage were bad shots.
But lets take it at 100. How much energy should be expanded on highlighting those 100 people? That's up for each person to decide. 400,000 children die in Africa each year due to malnutrition. There is a food crisis in Somalia right frigging now. Does it get the attention in black America as much as police shootings? Which do you think would save more lives? Anyone can do both of course, but I sure ain't seeing the same push.
TLDR. There is always something more concerning going on that deserves more attention. Complaining about X because Y is more important is self serving grandstanding. In my humble opinion.
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On May 27 2017 04:46 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture.
The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. What you see as an 'inability to discuss' others see as something else. Put this in historical context. The liberal, anti racist movement has been pushing and pushing for decades now and made huge progress. They are now pushing further than people are willing to accept, pushing into everybody's lives and telling us we're all racists. As soon as this started happening we get Trump. The problem is the total lack of self reflection from the activists whoa re really pushing this. They should be looking at themselves, but instead their totally blinkered mindset just sees this as proof that everyone's racist, and even more racist than they had previously thought. No-one seems to realize that is the obnoxiously invasive nature of these views and this activism that is the biggest problem here. This, by the way, is exactly what some morons on the right said was going to happen 30 years ago. They were fascist right wingers, mischaracterizing the left as some kind of idiotic, evil movement that wants to control everyone's thought processes and infringe on freedom of speech and thought. Lo and behold, the last thing I expected would be that 30 years later the left has somehow worked itself into a position of proving them right. By the way, I have never been to America so I'm not speaking of American culture specifically, just some observations from a more European point of view.
As we are specifically discussing America racism, police violence, voter repression, economic disparity and the legacy of slavery, maybe your impressions of racism in the EU might not be applicable. My country is very racist and the racism is getting worse, not better.
And here is the thing about progress, it isn’t guaranteed. We can regress. Humanity has done it before and we will do it again. And when it happens, it is often because people believed they were smarter than the people before them.
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On May 27 2017 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
That being said, I try to presume ignorance as long as I can, but I think the "conversations" that have to include me not offending someone who suggests real racism ended 60 years ago belong about 40 years in the past.
Feel free to show me where I suggested this, but when you do, quote the entire post 
Let me make this simple for you:
Of course racism still exists, but to change the definition of racism to include microaggressions and subconscious thought processes minimizes the real damage being done by actual racism.
Its simply creating a huge problem out of a tiny one in order to push a specific political agenda.
And yes, I'm saying that microaggressions are a tiny problem, subconscious racism is a tiny problem. These things are simply a part of human nature, and I would wager that they are equally present amongst people of all races.
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On May 27 2017 04:41 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 27 2017 03:54 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Considering the other garbage that gets spewed in TL about minority groups, I think GH can have his moment to talk about western imperialism and how it impacts a lot of peoples world views on culture.
The substance of what he is saying isn’t terrible. His tone of preaching from the peak of the moral high ground is the problem. I’m a holier than thou progressive and even I obtain that level of condescension.
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH: 1) Talking about dead kids. 2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead. 3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. I would love to end actual racism, not your fantasy version.
Why are you saddling me with cultural appropriation? I was one of the saying it was silly. Your inability to read posts and discern context is always a wonder.
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On May 27 2017 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
My tone is equally combative as the certitude asserted in the necessity for there to be a conversation. If they were your rights/freedoms/lives being threatened you would advocate violent resistance, but America and white people have accepted a habitual and systemic level of social and physical violence to black and brown people that they would never accept were it reversed.
Anyone who advocates violent resistance to anything is doing it wrong. The people throwing riots because Trump got elected was one of the worst, most misguided things I've ever seen. I think he's nothing short of a horrible president, but you don't get the message across by being just as bad, if not worse, as the person you are opposing. When you take the first opportunity to assume a maximally aggressive tone with people who are trying to have honest discussion, that's what offends people.
I'm not frustrated with you because of your underlying message, I'm frustrated with you because you're so eager to have a fistfight, when all I want is a fruitful discussion between 2 perspectives. Standing up for yourself is important, but get too eager and you start alienating people who supported you in the first place.
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On May 27 2017 04:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2017 04:41 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:36 biology]major wrote:On May 27 2017 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 27 2017 04:17 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 04:09 ZeromuS wrote:On May 27 2017 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 27 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:On May 27 2017 03:58 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
I mean, it would be cool if these discussions were actually discussions, but the inevitable end point always ends up with GH:
1) Talking about dead kids.
2) Saying that there are more important racism-related things that could be talked about instead.
3) Pretending to laugh about all the white cry-babies. As the local “woke white city boy” from my all white home town, I have learned to never, ever explain racism white people the way GH explains racism to white people. It isn’t effective and just feeds into all the preconceived ideas about these sorts of discussions. As a black person my whole life, I've learned they don't need any help to maintain racist understandings of the world around them, and it's almost never through a reasoned argument that they realize their error. It's almost exclusively a result of a personal experience that has nothing to do with a conversation about how racist America has always been and still is. Well your reasoned argument included saying all white people are racist and making large brush stroke comments about white people. Isn't making huge generalizations problematic regardless of the group you are discussing? I just think your approach and tact are poor. America is racist as hell but there are better ways to try and talk to people about it. We are all racist. Racism isn’t a thing or a state of being, it is something you do. It is act. Once someone accept that, it is only a question of how they response when they find out they did something racist. Don’t view racism as some cartoon villain or something that damns you forever. Nope. Sorry I can't stand this line of reasoning. The KKK are racist, I'm not racist. There may be some institutional racism at the base of the society which I am a part of, that doesn't make me racist. To minimize racism as just a thing that we all have, like a nipple, is completely missing the point. Its one way in which the modern hard left has taken something which had meaning for everyone and reinterpreted it because they want to push their agenda further. If you want to see racism, read the testimony of black people 60-100 years ago. That's racism. To redefine it in terms of microaggressions (which it seems to me you're trying to do) is to completely ignore the progress that's been made in this area. You can't just redefine the world in terms that fit your agenda. "We are all racist." Original sin is a religious idea which seeks to control people into joining them. You are a sinner, but behave as I tell you and you will be redeemed. Its reprehensible. This is why we have Trump. People's thought processes are so fucking distorted and out of touch with reality, that they have to make up bs justifications and definitions in order to cope with god knows what. Either way, the last few pages of discussion are almost troll worthy. Starting with that petition against white owner's to GH's defense of it. This is a parody right guys? As far as Portland is concerned, it is a strange, shitty place. I was blessed to witness gross (think out of shape and wrinkly), naked people biking down the streets while in my Uber when I went there for a conference for a few days. There were weed shops inside the PSU college campus lol, people looked very different. Honestly couldn't tell if quite a few people were men or women. The complete inability for people to discuss or have any level of self reflection about racism is one of the reasons we have Trump. You are correct about that. It is very clear that our nation has a lot of work and long discussions in the coming decades. And I’m sure you will loath every minute of it. I would love to end actual racism, not your fantasy version. Why are you saddling me with cultural appropriation? I was one of the saying it was silly. Your inability to read posts and discern context is always a wonder.
Good, glad you can see that it is silly. I just remember having this discussion a while ago and you or someone else (prolly gh), was basically like you can't be racist against white people. Thats when you know someone has gone off the deepend. If you believe that, then yes you still have a fantasy version of racism in your mind. If you don't, then my bad.
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EPT
