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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7592

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 21:35:52
May 19 2017 21:34 GMT
#151821
Also Julian Assange implied that Seth Rich was one of his sources. That alone should be reason enough to get the feds involved. I'm baffled that they aren't looking into this.

Russian interference is pretty much guaranteed, but Seth Rich could have also independently been plotting against the DNC on his own. I don't see why one cancels out the other.
Question.?
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 21:39:31
May 19 2017 21:36 GMT
#151822
I think the dead Russian thing is unlikely but Russia does have a tendency of people they don't like getting thrown out windows, and/or poisoned and/or shot in the back.

but the entirety of Set Rice is that the detective got the information from Fox news then was used as a source. yes the police should look into it but there's not really anything fishy about it. People get murdered, it happens. unless you're say working for the mob you probably weren't killed to be silenced

I mean the police are looking at it so if there's any actual evidence they'll investigate it (and it seems the answer to that is there isn't any.)

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 19 2017 21:38 GMT
#151823
On May 20 2017 06:34 biology]major wrote:
Also Julian Assange implied that Seth Rich was one of his sources. That alone should be reason enough to get the feds involved. I'm baffled that they aren't looking into this.

Russian interference is pretty much guaranteed, but Seth Rich could have also independently been plotting against the DNC on his own. I don't see why one cancels out the other.

Julian Assange: Seth is a source.

FBI Agent 1: Someone check that?

FBI Agent 2: Not seeing it in any of the information we have.

FBI Agent 1: Ok, so we shouldn't dive into this then.

FBI Agent 2: Should we respond?

FBI Communications: Fuck no, then Assange will just say more stupid shit.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 19 2017 21:41 GMT
#151824
On May 20 2017 06:38 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2017 06:34 biology]major wrote:
Also Julian Assange implied that Seth Rich was one of his sources. That alone should be reason enough to get the feds involved. I'm baffled that they aren't looking into this.

Russian interference is pretty much guaranteed, but Seth Rich could have also independently been plotting against the DNC on his own. I don't see why one cancels out the other.

Julian Assange: Seth is a source.

FBI Agent 1: Someone check that?

FBI Agent 2: Not seeing it in any of the information we have.

FBI Agent 1: Ok, so we shouldn't dive into this then.

FBI Agent 2: Should we respond?

FBI Communications: Fuck no, then Assange will just say more stupid shit.


given the context and nature of his death, yeah that makes perfect sense to me.
Question.?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23929 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 22:09:49
May 19 2017 22:07 GMT
#151825
On May 20 2017 05:41 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2017 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:33 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:22 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not sure we know the emails wikileaks put out were hacked and not leaked.

The DNC servers were never even given over to any of the agencies people like to site as all agreeing on the hacks.

They gave them over to law enforcement. Are you talking about private agencies?


Did they? Which ones? Not the FBI? I mean the

We have 17, 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyber attacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin. And they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing,

which people interpret to mean that 17 agencies all agree that the DNC hacks were Russia and given to wikileaks.

I'm saying Wikileaks denies that they got them from hacks at all and says they were leaked, and there isn't this concrete surety about the DNC emails being a result of a Russian hack as you are suggesting.

There is no evidence that has convinced you, is what you are saying. The CIA and several private firms have stated that they believe it was Russia. That is not sufficient for you, which is fine. I will amend my statement and say that a lot of people believe the hacks were the result targeted phishing by Russia and not an internal leak.


There is no evidence really. I mean basically you have someone the DNC paid to write a report writing a report that was conducive to what the people paying them wanted?

If I'm not mistaken the suggestion that the CIA/FBI think it was Russia feeding info to Wikileaks (presumably the DNC leaks) is an anonymous rumor?

They do think Russia was trying to influence the election (I think that's widely agreed upon) but the idea that the Wikileaks emails came from Russia I think is little more than a rumor?

On May 20 2017 02:38 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:27 a_flayer wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:22 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not sure we know the emails wikileaks put out were hacked and not leaked.

The DNC servers were never even given over to any of the agencies people like to site as all agreeing on the hacks.

They gave them over to law enforcement. Are you talking about private agencies?

The way I understood it, the DNC servers were never inspected by the FBI or any of the US Intelligence agencies. They were inspected by Crowdstrike.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/fbi-russia-hacking-dnc-crowdstrike/index.html


This time article states at an official at the CIA said wikileaks did not release personal information that was on teh server at the time of the hack. I don't know how they would know that unless they looked at it.

http://time.com/4625301/cia-russia-wikileaks-dnc-hacking/

I am willing to accept that some people are not willing the US intelligence services at face value. There is more than enough reason for that belief. But there is not way the DNC's severs were never looked at by law enforcement.


Yeah, the article says it's an anonymous source, and you're presuming they looked at it because an anonymous source said they made a conclusion?


just trying to be clear on your stance (i'm bad at using bold so i'm copy/pasting relevant parts instead):
you stated "If I'm not mistaken the suggestion that the CIA/FBI think it was Russia feeding info to Wikileaks (presumably the DNC leaks) is an anonymous rumor?"

so if I'm reading that correctly, and restate what you said in my own words:
cia/fbi haven't asserted that wikileaks got the hacked info from russia.
is that correct on your position?

what is your position on whether russia hacked the dnc? (regardless of what they did with the info)



I was remembering the same article p6 posted which credited an anonymous source that claimed the wikileaks emails came from Russian hackers.

I don't think we have evidence that Russia gave the information they hacked (yes I think they and possibly others hacked the DNC and others) to wikileaks and those were the emails they released and said they got from a leaker, so people shouldn't speak about it as if it's a fact. That's my position.

Particularly people who had a much more strict need for concrete proof during the primary.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
May 19 2017 22:26 GMT
#151826
CNN is claiming white house lawyers are researching impeachment for the "distant possibility" that they need to defend Trump from it. Is that important news at all?
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 22:33:29
May 19 2017 22:29 GMT
#151827
On May 20 2017 07:26 Nevuk wrote:
CNN is claiming white house lawyers are researching impeachment for the "distant possibility" that they need to defend Trump from it. Is that important news at all?


I'd say not at this time. generally if there's even a distinct possibility of something you research it. I'd rate this as a literal 0 (aka standard as a result of whats been happening, means nothing on it's own.)
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 22:31:27
May 19 2017 22:30 GMT
#151828
If they are in fact doing that, then yes. That is the opposite of normal for any White House. It isn't banner headlines, but this is CNN. Everything is Breaking News. I have to assume they would defend against hearing and witnesses being called. The impeachment itself is pretty much out of the hands of the White House by design.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
May 19 2017 22:32 GMT
#151829
On May 20 2017 07:30 Plansix wrote:
If they are in fact doing that, then yes. That is the opposite of normal for any White House. It isn't banner headlines, but this is CNN. Everything is Breaking News. I have to assume they would defend against hearing and witnesses being called. The impeachment itself is pretty much out of the hands of the White House by design.

There's no majority (66%?) to vote an impeachment anyway, right?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 19 2017 22:37 GMT
#151830
On May 20 2017 07:32 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2017 07:30 Plansix wrote:
If they are in fact doing that, then yes. That is the opposite of normal for any White House. It isn't banner headlines, but this is CNN. Everything is Breaking News. I have to assume they would defend against hearing and witnesses being called. The impeachment itself is pretty much out of the hands of the White House by design.

There's no majority (66%?) to vote an impeachment anyway, right?

Majority in the house to start. 2/3s of the senate to remove after the hearings in the senate. House appoints over managers. It's a trail.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
May 19 2017 22:42 GMT
#151831
It also kind of depends on the White House lawyers in question. If they're the legal equivalent of Trump's little security team, they're probably nearly as far out of their depth here as Trump is, so research would be pretty necessary.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-19 22:47:19
May 19 2017 22:46 GMT
#151832
On May 20 2017 07:42 TheTenthDoc wrote:
It also kind of depends on the White House lawyers in question. If they're the legal equivalent of Trump's little security team, they're probably nearly as far out of their depth here as Trump is, so research would be pretty necessary.

it'd also depend on whether it's some sort of high level or senior counsel; or just some guy at the bottom of the totem pole looking at stuff.
at any rate; I agree it largely means nothing. researching for things that might possibly happen is routine procedure.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
May 19 2017 22:53 GMT
#151833
On May 20 2017 07:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2017 05:41 zlefin wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:33 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:22 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not sure we know the emails wikileaks put out were hacked and not leaked.

The DNC servers were never even given over to any of the agencies people like to site as all agreeing on the hacks.

They gave them over to law enforcement. Are you talking about private agencies?


Did they? Which ones? Not the FBI? I mean the

We have 17, 17 intelligence agencies, civilian and military who have all concluded that these espionage attacks, these cyber attacks, come from the highest levels of the Kremlin. And they are designed to influence our election. I find that deeply disturbing,

which people interpret to mean that 17 agencies all agree that the DNC hacks were Russia and given to wikileaks.

I'm saying Wikileaks denies that they got them from hacks at all and says they were leaked, and there isn't this concrete surety about the DNC emails being a result of a Russian hack as you are suggesting.

There is no evidence that has convinced you, is what you are saying. The CIA and several private firms have stated that they believe it was Russia. That is not sufficient for you, which is fine. I will amend my statement and say that a lot of people believe the hacks were the result targeted phishing by Russia and not an internal leak.


There is no evidence really. I mean basically you have someone the DNC paid to write a report writing a report that was conducive to what the people paying them wanted?

If I'm not mistaken the suggestion that the CIA/FBI think it was Russia feeding info to Wikileaks (presumably the DNC leaks) is an anonymous rumor?

They do think Russia was trying to influence the election (I think that's widely agreed upon) but the idea that the Wikileaks emails came from Russia I think is little more than a rumor?

On May 20 2017 02:38 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:27 a_flayer wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:22 Plansix wrote:
On May 20 2017 02:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm not sure we know the emails wikileaks put out were hacked and not leaked.

The DNC servers were never even given over to any of the agencies people like to site as all agreeing on the hacks.

They gave them over to law enforcement. Are you talking about private agencies?

The way I understood it, the DNC servers were never inspected by the FBI or any of the US Intelligence agencies. They were inspected by Crowdstrike.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/fbi-russia-hacking-dnc-crowdstrike/index.html


This time article states at an official at the CIA said wikileaks did not release personal information that was on teh server at the time of the hack. I don't know how they would know that unless they looked at it.

http://time.com/4625301/cia-russia-wikileaks-dnc-hacking/

I am willing to accept that some people are not willing the US intelligence services at face value. There is more than enough reason for that belief. But there is not way the DNC's severs were never looked at by law enforcement.


Yeah, the article says it's an anonymous source, and you're presuming they looked at it because an anonymous source said they made a conclusion?


just trying to be clear on your stance (i'm bad at using bold so i'm copy/pasting relevant parts instead):
you stated "If I'm not mistaken the suggestion that the CIA/FBI think it was Russia feeding info to Wikileaks (presumably the DNC leaks) is an anonymous rumor?"

so if I'm reading that correctly, and restate what you said in my own words:
cia/fbi haven't asserted that wikileaks got the hacked info from russia.
is that correct on your position?

what is your position on whether russia hacked the dnc? (regardless of what they did with the info)



I was remembering the same article p6 posted which credited an anonymous source that claimed the wikileaks emails came from Russian hackers.

I don't think we have evidence that Russia gave the information they hacked (yes I think they and possibly others hacked the DNC and others) to wikileaks and those were the emails they released and said they got from a leaker, so people shouldn't speak about it as if it's a fact. That's my position.

Particularly people who had a much more strict need for concrete proof during the primary.

ok; i'm fine with that.
i'm sticking with it as a likelihood of course. (and may change it back to fact depending on citations others provide of course)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 19 2017 22:57 GMT
#151834
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 19 2017 23:00 GMT
#151835
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 19 2017 23:06 GMT
#151836
Comey testimony, that's gonna be one for the history books. Trump is going to be sweating bullets during that one
Question.?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 19 2017 23:08 GMT
#151837
On May 20 2017 08:06 biology]major wrote:
Comey testimony, that's gonna be one for the history books. Trump is going to be sweating bullets during that one


Trump gonna be in full REEEEEEE mode, tweeting election maps over and over during the stream
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 19 2017 23:10 GMT
#151838
they should just turn the plane around and cancel the trip. I don't see this going well
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
May 19 2017 23:16 GMT
#151839
On May 20 2017 06:34 biology]major wrote:
Also Julian Assange implied that Seth Rich was one of his sources. That alone should be reason enough to get the feds involved. I'm baffled that they aren't looking into this.

Russian interference is pretty much guaranteed, but Seth Rich could have also independently been plotting against the DNC on his own. I don't see why one cancels out the other.


I mean if we are just throwing out random conspiracies then how about the Russians killed him to pin the hacks onto him in order to get the heat off of Russia and Trump.

That crackpot theory I proposed actually makes more sense then any of the craziness people have said about it due to Russia being a country that actively assassinates opponents even on foreign soil. However saying that I am pretty sure my made up theory and every made up theory are wrong because its generally the most boring answer that is the correct one.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
May 19 2017 23:17 GMT
#151840
Pretty much

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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