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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7566

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 17 2017 22:17 GMT
#151301
On May 18 2017 07:15 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:10 Doodsmack wrote:
The Justice Department has appointed Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director, to serve as a special counsel to oversee its investigation into Russian meddling in the election, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein announced on Wednesday.

The appointment of Mr. Mueller dramatically raises the stakes for President Trump in the multiple investigations into his campaign’s ties to the Russians. It follows a swiftly moving series of developments that have roiled Washington, including Mr. Trump’s abrupt dismissal of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and the disclosure that the president urged Mr. Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn.


www.nytimes.com



So does this mean he takes over this investigation in the FBI? Or that he oversees all the investigations including the house, senate and FBI?

Yes and no. The FBI will handle their own evidence gathering and pass the information on the investigators, Senate and House. I think the FBI still has its own investigation, but Mueller will provide his own findings to congress/justice.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22487 Posts
May 17 2017 22:17 GMT
#151302
On May 18 2017 07:15 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:10 Doodsmack wrote:
The Justice Department has appointed Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director, to serve as a special counsel to oversee its investigation into Russian meddling in the election, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein announced on Wednesday.

The appointment of Mr. Mueller dramatically raises the stakes for President Trump in the multiple investigations into his campaign’s ties to the Russians. It follows a swiftly moving series of developments that have roiled Washington, including Mr. Trump’s abrupt dismissal of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and the disclosure that the president urged Mr. Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn.


www.nytimes.com



So does this mean he takes over this investigation in the FBI? Or that he oversees all the investigations including the house, senate and FBI?

I assume its a separate investigation?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
May 17 2017 22:18 GMT
#151303
On May 18 2017 07:10 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:04 pmh wrote:
It seems unlikely to me that a man who is worth already over 4b would risk it all,not only for himself but also for his beloved family,for a few mill from rusia. Like how much do people think rusia has paid trump, 10m, 100m, 1b?
It is trump so everything is possible,that much I have learned. But this just seems so unlikely to me.

19.5% of Rosneft stock worth at least 1.6 billion is alleged in the dossier.
Quick google search puts 19% closer to 10 billion USD.
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:26:07
May 17 2017 22:18 GMT
#151304
On May 18 2017 07:13 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:10 Doodsmack wrote:
The Justice Department has appointed Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director, to serve as a special counsel to oversee its investigation into Russian meddling in the election, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein announced on Wednesday.

The appointment of Mr. Mueller dramatically raises the stakes for President Trump in the multiple investigations into his campaign’s ties to the Russians. It follows a swiftly moving series of developments that have roiled Washington, including Mr. Trump’s abrupt dismissal of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and the disclosure that the president urged Mr. Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn.


www.nytimes.com

A 'safe' investigation to try and take the heat off the real issues.

Safe in the sense that it might turn up a bunch of misinformation campaigns (that we already know of) and is unlikely to find criminal wrongdoing.


IDK. Robert Mueller isn't really a hack, and he'll have complete trust of intelligence-agencies.
This is definitely a step in the right direction.

You can't really talk about the campaign misinformation, without linking it to Trump and his many shady business accomplices. Because they were involved in the campaign. People like Felix Sater, who is a convicted member of Russian mafia.



This interview was recorded before the election. Trump is seen with Sater during the election -- and Sater is one of the guys that Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, gave government documents to, to be delivered to Ukraine officials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/19/us/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-russia.html?_r=0

A known Russia mobster, dealing with our acting President. And we just, like, ignore this. It's incredible.
Their names and persons appear together so often. And this is just one, of course, many, many things that implicate Trump's ties to Russia.

Trump is lying his ass off in this interview, then he runs away. It's pathetic, and well worth watching.
Big water
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:19 GMT
#151305
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:23:54
May 17 2017 22:22 GMT
#151306
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

By that note, it is to much to expect a Republican administration to respect the hard work and effort of civil servants. They are mostly a punching bag to help Republicans get elected. Attack the goverment and the mythical 4th branch and get elected. Then accomplish nothing and blame them again. Making a living out of attacking civil servants, they don't see a lot of reason to not leak things.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:39:51
May 17 2017 22:22 GMT
#151307
Well I'm glad it's someone nonpartisan and someone who has a good reputation. Trump now has 2 ex FBI directors to worry about.

edit: will soon be 3
Question.?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22487 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:23:56
May 17 2017 22:23 GMT
#151308
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

Right, because the government is Democratic and has no Republicans.

Or maybe the reason the government is a full of holes right now is because while Obama was hated by Republicans he was a competent politician and at least somewhat respected.
Trump on the other hand is Trump.

ps.
It probably also helps that Obama (and his predecessors) were competent enough to not cause a major incident on a weekly basis.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:24:13
May 17 2017 22:24 GMT
#151309
On May 18 2017 07:17 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:15 biology]major wrote:
On May 18 2017 07:10 Doodsmack wrote:
The Justice Department has appointed Robert S. Mueller III, the former F.B.I. director, to serve as a special counsel to oversee its investigation into Russian meddling in the election, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein announced on Wednesday.

The appointment of Mr. Mueller dramatically raises the stakes for President Trump in the multiple investigations into his campaign’s ties to the Russians. It follows a swiftly moving series of developments that have roiled Washington, including Mr. Trump’s abrupt dismissal of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and the disclosure that the president urged Mr. Comey to drop the bureau’s investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn.


www.nytimes.com



So does this mean he takes over this investigation in the FBI? Or that he oversees all the investigations including the house, senate and FBI?

I assume its a separate investigation?


Nope, I'm seeing that he will take over the FBI investigation and can add/remove personell as he sees fit, and will basically run this particular investigation fully.
Question.?
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
May 17 2017 22:25 GMT
#151310
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.


Trump's own White House is a sieve. It's part of how his own people interact with him.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:25 GMT
#151311
On May 18 2017 07:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

By that note, it is to much to expect a Republican administration to respect the hard work and effort of civil servants. They are mostly a punching bag to help Republicans get elected. Attack the goverment and the mythical 4th branch and get elected. Then accomplish nothing and blame them again. Making a living out of attacking civil servants, they don't see a lot of reason to not leak things.

A punching bag for government bloat is far different than undermining the operations of their bosses for political gains.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 17 2017 22:29 GMT
#151312
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.


You are saying this entire Russia ordeal is a partisan attack orchestrated by what you define as a left-leaning intelligence community?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:30 GMT
#151313
On May 18 2017 07:23 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

Right, because the government is Democratic and has no Republicans.

Or maybe the reason the government is a full of holes right now is because while Obama was hated by Republicans he was a competent politician and at least somewhat respected.
Trump on the other hand is Trump.

ps.
It probably also helps that Obama (and his predecessors) were competent enough to not cause a major incident on a weekly basis.

Remind me what percent in DC and close areas of Virginia voted Trump.

It's full of holes because Trump ran against the Washington establishment and they're willing to fight dirty to get results. Obama was a nice little liberal and his politics agreed with the prevailing order, so the executive departments and agencies acted like they were employed to do their jobs. Trump, almost through no fault of his own, is revealing just how politically driven the fourth branch, courts, and media are.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 22:31:15
May 17 2017 22:30 GMT
#151314
In this case though, the leakers appear to be aides closest to Donald Trump. I wonder if Melenia Trump has woken up to patriotic feelings?
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
May 17 2017 22:32 GMT
#151315
On May 18 2017 07:30 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
In this case though, the leakers appear to be aides closest to Donald Trump. I wonder if Melenia Trump has woken up to patriotic feelings?


lmao, she's trying to find a way to return to her old life. Probably misses NYC and her freedom.
Question.?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:33 GMT
#151316
On May 18 2017 07:29 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.


You are saying this entire Russia ordeal is a partisan attack orchestrated by what you define as a left-leaning intelligence community?

Read it again. The leak campaign is partisan politics. Americans sent Trump to shake things up and the federal bureaucracy is intent on never letting that happen, so they selectively leak to undermine the administration. It's a wonder to behold. Yet some people think ... oh just take away the motivation and like good children they'll start behaving again. Pathetic.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
May 17 2017 22:34 GMT
#151317
On May 18 2017 07:30 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:23 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

Right, because the government is Democratic and has no Republicans.

Or maybe the reason the government is a full of holes right now is because while Obama was hated by Republicans he was a competent politician and at least somewhat respected.
Trump on the other hand is Trump.

ps.
It probably also helps that Obama (and his predecessors) were competent enough to not cause a major incident on a weekly basis.

Remind me what percent in DC and close areas of Virginia voted Trump.

It's full of holes because Trump ran against the Washington establishment and they're willing to fight dirty to get results. Obama was a nice little liberal and his politics agreed with the prevailing order, so the executive departments and agencies acted like they were employed to do their jobs. Trump, almost through no fault of his own, is revealing just how politically driven the fourth branch, courts, and media are.


I'm sorry I have to say this -- what you wrote here is nothing more than a pathetic grasp for straws.

"This region of the country didn't vote for him in majority, and that's where politicians tend to live, so therefore, everything said about Trump is a conspiracy." Does that about sum it up? Yeah, that's pathetic.
Big water
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:36 GMT
#151318
On May 18 2017 07:25 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.


Trump's own White House is a sieve. It's part of how his own people interact with him.

To the extent that it's his staff and appointees, he's responsible for firing them and letting the next batch know he won't stand for it.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 17 2017 22:37 GMT
#151319
On May 18 2017 07:34 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:30 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 07:23 Gorsameth wrote:
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.

Right, because the government is Democratic and has no Republicans.

Or maybe the reason the government is a full of holes right now is because while Obama was hated by Republicans he was a competent politician and at least somewhat respected.
Trump on the other hand is Trump.

ps.
It probably also helps that Obama (and his predecessors) were competent enough to not cause a major incident on a weekly basis.

Remind me what percent in DC and close areas of Virginia voted Trump.

It's full of holes because Trump ran against the Washington establishment and they're willing to fight dirty to get results. Obama was a nice little liberal and his politics agreed with the prevailing order, so the executive departments and agencies acted like they were employed to do their jobs. Trump, almost through no fault of his own, is revealing just how politically driven the fourth branch, courts, and media are.


I'm sorry I have to say this -- what you wrote here is nothing more than a pathetic grasp for straws.

"This region of the country didn't vote for him in majority, and that's where politicians tend to live, so therefore, everything said about Trump is a conspiracy." Does that about sum it up? Yeah, that's pathetic.

No, I responded to someone bringing up that bureaucrats are both republican and democrat. Read it again.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
May 17 2017 22:38 GMT
#151320
On May 18 2017 07:33 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 07:29 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 07:19 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:48 Danglars wrote:
On May 18 2017 06:34 Nevuk wrote:
Former Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is among the candidates President Trump is considering for FBI director, the White House said Wednesday.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said Trump is meeting in the afternoon with the ex-Connecticut senator and three other possible replacements for ousted FBI Director James Comey at the White House.

Unlike past FBI directors, Lieberman has no experience as an FBI agent or as a federal judge or prosecutor. The Democrat-turned-Independent was Connecticut attorney general before being elected to the Senate in 1988.

Lieberman endorsed Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential campaign.

Trump is also meeting with acting FBI Director Andrew McCabe, former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating (R) and former FBI official Richard McFeely.

Keating worked as an FBI special agent before entering politics. He also served as a U.S. attorney and top Justice Department official during the Reagan administration.

The administration has been interviewing candidates in recent days to replace Comey amid continued fallout over the FBI chief's firing early last week.
thehill.com

I don't think Lieberman is the right guy to tamp down on the leaks and restore some credibility in the department.


I think the perspective that leaks are something that can be prevented through force or orders or anything of that nature, is very, very misguided.

The only way to stop leaks is to remove people's motivation to leak.

Nonsense. The motivation is political opposition, always has been. The administrative state is politicized and the incentive structure is perverse. Lawbreaking in this case has to actually be investigated and punished, otherwise it's a tacit admission that though you lose the White House, Democrats will never lose the fourth branch of government.

It's becoming too much to expect civil servants to do their jobs in a Republican administration.


You are saying this entire Russia ordeal is a partisan attack orchestrated by what you define as a left-leaning intelligence community?

Read it again. The leak campaign is partisan politics. Americans sent Trump to shake things up and the federal bureaucracy is intent on never letting that happen, so they selectively leak to undermine the administration. It's a wonder to behold. Yet some people think ... oh just take away the motivation and like good children they'll start behaving again. Pathetic.


So you're saying there are democrat-sympathetic people in the intelligence community (FBI, CIA etc) who are leaking stuff to work against Trump for political reasons? And you are saying an FBI director can prevent this from happening? How?
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