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United States43545 Posts
On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car.
Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked.
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On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked.
It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people.
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United States43545 Posts
On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people.
Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that?
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On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that?
Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood.
I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this.
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On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this.
How is this different from alcohol which also stays in the blood after the effect has worn off?
We are limited by our ability to test. If people develop a reliable compact test that does not suffer from this problem it can be addressed. Until then its a more then acceptable cost.
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On April 22 2017 01:34 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How is this different from alcohol which also stays in the blood after the effect has worn off? We are limited by our ability to test. If people develop a reliable compact test that does not suffer from this problem it can be addressed. Until then its a more then acceptable cost.
Blood alcohol tests are way more reliable though to determine when someone is drunk.
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On April 22 2017 01:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:34 Gorsameth wrote:On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How is this different from alcohol which also stays in the blood after the effect has worn off? We are limited by our ability to test. If people develop a reliable compact test that does not suffer from this problem it can be addressed. Until then its a more then acceptable cost. Blood alcohol tests are way more reliable though to determine when someone is drunk.
As I said, we are limited by our ability to test.
So we get to chose. Either driving while stoned our of your mind is legal or you cant have a joint in the morning and drive in the afternoon.
Seems a very easy choice to me.
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On April 22 2017 00:43 Velr wrote:How can it be biased against non-whites (and asians) if it involves touching your nose?  Sry..
Saying the alphabet backwards is a lot harder if your first language isn't English, for instance (unless they accept that you say it backwards in Spanish, or use the Arabic alphabet instead, or rattle off a load of Chinese characters).
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On April 22 2017 01:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 00:43 Velr wrote:How can it be biased against non-whites (and asians) if it involves touching your nose? Sry.. Saying the alphabet backwards is a lot harder if your first language isn't English, for instance (unless they accept that you say it backwards in Spanish, or use the Arabic alphabet instead, or rattle off a load of Chinese characters).
It is also something that has to be trained to be done well. I can't do it while 100% sober right now in my native language. I have to do the alphabet from the start or one of the middle points I have memorised and then tell the end point -1 each time.
Trying I find I have ~7 points memorised that I can start the order from.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-defense-chief-pentagon-wont-reveal-damage-big-170919551--politics.html
I would not be surprised if this bomb did kill exactly zero people lol. o well.
About being intoxinated:in the Netherlands driving under the influence of alcohol,weed or any other drug is prohibited. You do get tested by your breath on the field when you are stopped for a check,or taken to the police station for a blood test incase they suspect it is something they can not test with the breath analyser. If you score high with the breath analyser you get a blood test as well to determine the exact % to see if they revoke your license right away. I do believe they are working on new testing devices for in the field that can also recognize pot and other substances but I am not sure in what stage they are with this. I do agree that driving under the influence of pot is probably less dangerous then driving under the heavy influence of alcohol,at least for regular pot users. first time users or people who use very rarely will be severely impacted In their ability to drive though I think and it is difficult for the police to make a difference between those two. Seeing how deadly accidents can be and how they can involve innocent bystanders I think it is ok to have a very low tolerance for this.
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Wasn't meant to rack up a big kill count imo, was meant to destroy a tunnel system, maybe kill a few and more importantly a statement of strength and resolve to NK and Syria plus to boost Trump ratings. Or at least that is how I'd view it.
Supposedly those bombs have a shelf life and quite a few made are closing in on the end of their shelf life. Don't have the sources on hand and not entirely sure I believe them anyway but it would make sense as to why they would be willing to use such an expensive bomb to not inflict high causalities.
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United States43545 Posts
On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this.
How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold?
You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation.
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Yeah not getting high can sometimes be a good option.
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On April 22 2017 01:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold? You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation.
My scenario was vague sorry. Okay how about people who are in chronic pain and need to smoke to ease it, but also need to still work and get to work? You wake up take a few puffs, not enough to be high out of your mind but enough to ease your pain?
What if you smoked in the morning and an emergency comes up in the afternoon, you need to get somewhere asap but now you'e worried about whether you'll test positive even though your not high?
There are to many variables to have a clear cut draconian law and punishment as you suggest imo. It should of course be illegal but the punishment should vary on a degree and should fit the crime more appropriately.
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On April 22 2017 01:49 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Wasn't meant to rack up a big kill count imo, was meant to destroy a tunnel system, maybe kill a few and more importantly a statement of strength and resolve to NK and Syria plus to boost Trump ratings. Or at least that is how I'd view it. Supposedly those bombs have a shelf life and quite a few made are closing in on the end of their shelf life. Don't have the sources on hand and not entirely sure I believe them anyway but it would make sense as to why they would be willing to use such an expensive bomb to not inflict high causalities.
Except, as I understood, the bomb does nothing to actually damage the tunnels themselves (unless they're poorly built).
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On April 22 2017 01:50 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold? You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation.
This is an argument that will never get anywhere until you've smoked yourself and know what type of "impairment" you will get. Not everyone feels THC same, just like drinking. I personally don't see it any different than drinking coffee, or smoking a cigarette. And I definitely don't compare weed to alcohol because they're two completely different substances.
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On April 22 2017 01:59 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:50 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold? You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation. This is an argument that will never get anywhere until you've smoked yourself and know what type of "impairment" you will get. Not everyone feels THC same, just like drinking. I personally don't see it any different than drinking coffee, or smoking a cigarette. And I definitely don't compare weed to alcohol because they're two completely different substances.
Can we on the fly test these people on their individual effects? No? Then we need a global one.
Stop thinking in a world of perfect knowledge and compliance. Think practically for just a moment...
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It'd be nice if there were more good ways to measure impairment; and ones that weren't misused. (I vaguely recall hearing once that they tested putting breathalyzers in bars, so people could optionally check how drunk they were to test whether they should drive, mostly people used it as a competition to be the most drunk, rather than for safety purposes)
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On April 22 2017 01:56 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:50 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold? You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation. My scenario was vague sorry. Okay how about people who are in chronic pain and need to smoke to ease it, but also need to still work and get to work? You wake up take a few puffs, not enough to be high out of your mind but enough to ease your pain? What if you smoked in the morning and an emergency comes up in the afternoon, you need to get somewhere asap but now you'e worried about whether you'll test positive even though your not high? There are to many variables to have a clear cut draconian law and punishment as you suggest imo. It should of course be illegal but the punishment should vary on a degree and should fit the crime more appropriately.
Driving is just a tricky thing in general I think,someone who has been driving daily for 20 years without accident can drive much more safely under influence then someone who has only been driving for 2 years. It actually takes quiet a long time to be able to drive on "auto pilot" They have to draw the line somewhere though. In your example:get a friend to drive,a taxi or public transport. I guess usa is a bit different then the Netherlands. In the Netherlands you can easily go anywhere without having to use a car,traffic is also much heavier and more dense then in the usa (except for the big citys in the usa). In the usa you really do need a car to get to many places and sometimes the roads are just empty. Still,just imagine you had children. would you be happy if people drive around stoned when they are playing outside?
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On April 22 2017 02:07 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2017 01:56 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:50 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:32 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:28 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:22 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 01:18 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 01:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On April 22 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2017 00:35 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Pot is definitely more person to person in terms of impairment. Tolerance levels due vary greatly in many ways, it stays in your system longer and is detectable well after you've really come down. Making it extremely hard to regulate, I disagree wholeheartedly with Kwarks draconian law style as well. What happens if someone smokes a joint, comes down drives an hour or so later and gets pulled over for something unrelated but ends up losing their car? Absolutes like that are extremely dangerous and give far to much power to be properly used.
Pot to me seems far less dangerous in terms of impairment but we definitely can't have people blazed out of their minds driving either. Not sure how to properly regulate it, instead of walking in a straight line perhaps some sort of test to determine how much one can focus and pay attention? What do you mean what happens? That's the situation the law is meant to prevent by stopping people from doing it. Saying "well surely your draconian law will punish people who smoke a joint and drive an hour later" is somewhat missing the point. Those are the people I'm trying to punish. I think you missed my point, my point was that these people aren't really high anymore and not impaired but tests will still detect pot in the blood etc. Therefore causing an innocent person to lose their car. Couldn't they just not get high if they plan to drive anywhere and if they do get high and suddenly need to go somewhere use an alternate method of transport? I'm just not getting who the innocent victim of this is meant to be. If it's the guy who gets high, decides that he's probably fine to drive and gets behind the wheel, well, I'm actually okay with that guy getting fucked. It's unreasonable to have people put their entire day on hold to smoke a single joint though. Hence why I disagree with the premise here. We need to find a reasonable way to judge this. I agree if they are high and driving fuck em, but if they just have pot in their blood but aren't high anymore they shouldn't be getting screwed over. Absolutes like that in Law are dangerous for one and easily abused to begin with, not to mention can screw innocent people. Put their entire day on hold? All I'm asking them to do is not operate complex and heavy machinery around other people at high speeds after getting high. That's not an unreasonable burden. Under what circumstances would someone's entire day be put on hold by having to abide by that? Again missing the point here. As I Said before the tests for pot make it detectable AFTER you're no longer actually high. So they could smoke a joint in the morning, come down and after lunch want to go out but still have pot technically in their blood. I don't want anyone high driving, that is fucking awful, I'm just saying unless we get a better test to determine whether someone is actually high you can't put in laws like this. How about they don't smoke a joint in the morning if they need to go for a drive in the afternoon? Would that really be them putting their whole day on hold? You're presenting this as an unacceptable burden to place on pot smokers but I really can't see how it is. I mean the burden you described in your example consists of either getting high in the afternoon, making your own lunch, ordering in lunch or going out for lunch using an alternate form of transportation. My scenario was vague sorry. Okay how about people who are in chronic pain and need to smoke to ease it, but also need to still work and get to work? You wake up take a few puffs, not enough to be high out of your mind but enough to ease your pain? What if you smoked in the morning and an emergency comes up in the afternoon, you need to get somewhere asap but now you'e worried about whether you'll test positive even though your not high? There are to many variables to have a clear cut draconian law and punishment as you suggest imo. It should of course be illegal but the punishment should vary on a degree and should fit the crime more appropriately. Driving is just a tricky thing in general I think,someone who has been driving daily for 20 years without accident can drive much more safely under influence then someone who has only been driving for 2 years. It actually takes quiet a long time to be able to drive on "auto pilot" They have to draw the line somewhere though. In your example:get a friend to drive,a taxi or public transport. I guess usa is a bit different then the Netherlands,as in the Netherlands you can easily go anywhere without having to use a car,but this is not the case for the usa.
Speaking from where I live public transit is just garbage, Taxi would be insanely expensive as well.
Again I'm not saying it should be legal, just saying you can't have a black and white law that will cost people their cars and/or tens of thousands of dollars.
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EPT
