|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 13 2017 02:11 Wulfey_LA wrote:
The problem will be that in 3 weeks more #TrumpRussia stories will come out, more campaign crones will testify, and more legislation will fail. What happens then and Trump feels bad again? You know he will go back for the high he got off those missiles. Trump's insecurity is boundless. This will put the USA into a positive feedback loop of escalation with Russia in Syria.
Syria isn't important enough for either party to trigger a nuclear escalation. It is in both countries spheres as well, if you include Turkey and Israel on the US side. The biggest thing Russia could get out of Syria would be pipelines (as I understand it).
|
United States43533 Posts
I'm just glad he's forgotten about invading Iran. Maybe someone in the military explained to him that the Iran agreement was Iran giving us all of the stuff that we asked for.
|
On April 13 2017 02:11 Wulfey_LA wrote:
The problem will be that in 3 weeks more #TrumpRussia stories will come out, more campaign crones will testify, and more legislation will fail. What happens then and Trump feels bad again? You know he will go back for the high he got off those missiles. Trump's insecurity is boundless. This will put the USA into a positive feedback loop of escalation with Russia in Syria.
It is going exactly as many people predicted it would. Trump is behaving exactly as expected.
On April 13 2017 02:15 KwarK wrote:
I'm just glad he's forgotten about invading Iran. Maybe someone in the military explained to him that the Iran agreement was Iran giving us all of the stuff that we asked for.
He will go back to that at some point if Iran manages to flit into his attention span.
|
On April 13 2017 02:15 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 02:11 Wulfey_LA wrote:
The problem will be that in 3 weeks more #TrumpRussia stories will come out, more campaign crones will testify, and more legislation will fail. What happens then and Trump feels bad again? You know he will go back for the high he got off those missiles. Trump's insecurity is boundless. This will put the USA into a positive feedback loop of escalation with Russia in Syria. Syria isn't important enough for either party to trigger a nuclear escalation. It is in both countries spheres as well, if you include Turkey and Israel on the US side. The biggest thing Russia could get out of Syria would be pipelines (as I understand it).
Russia has a naval base, airbase, and a high-ranked seat at the table of MidEast politics at stake in Syria right now.
|
On April 13 2017 02:22 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 02:15 Yurie wrote:On April 13 2017 02:11 Wulfey_LA wrote:
The problem will be that in 3 weeks more #TrumpRussia stories will come out, more campaign crones will testify, and more legislation will fail. What happens then and Trump feels bad again? You know he will go back for the high he got off those missiles. Trump's insecurity is boundless. This will put the USA into a positive feedback loop of escalation with Russia in Syria. Syria isn't important enough for either party to trigger a nuclear escalation. It is in both countries spheres as well, if you include Turkey and Israel on the US side. The biggest thing Russia could get out of Syria would be pipelines (as I understand it). Russia has a naval base, airbase, and a high-ranked seat at the table of MidEast politics at stake in Syria right now.
A naval base would be nice for them, Crimea is workable but not as good. Would remove the need to use the Bosphorus which is guarded by NATO member Turkey. Strait of Gibraltar is still a problem though. Don't really see what the air base would give them.
Politics is true as well. They are expanding their reach now that they have recovered after the end of the first cold war. Allowing them to start the second one.
|
On April 13 2017 01:28 Plansix wrote:
I like how he talked about what cake he was eating when he ordered the military to attack people. Very Mary Antoinette.
Marie Antoinette gets a lot of undeserved bad rep. Afaik there is no evidence she ever actually uttered that quote. Wikipedia tells me that it turned up in one of Rousseaus book as an anonymous quotation of "a great princess" when she was 9 years old and still Maria Antonia of Austria.
And the main reason why she was so unpopular during her times, the diamond necklace affair, is once again something where she for some reason got a bad reputation based on something she had absolutely nothing to do with at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Diamond_Necklace
There was a fucking expensive necklace, people tried to sell it to her, she said she didn't want it.
Then afterwards, some conmen tricked another dude whom the queen didn't like into buying the necklace, saying that the queen would reimburse him and like him more afterwards. They even hired a hooker to fake being the queen to that guy who really should recognize her. He fell for it, and then went to the queen to reimburse him, who basically said "wtf are you talking about? also i don't like you, why would i ask you to buy a necklace for me?"
And for some reason, that was all her fault.
|
You are totally correct. Marie Antoinette sort of became the punching bag of history when it come to the French Revolution. But it hard to pass up a good cake joke.
|
On April 13 2017 02:27 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 02:22 LegalLord wrote:On April 13 2017 02:15 Yurie wrote:On April 13 2017 02:11 Wulfey_LA wrote:
The problem will be that in 3 weeks more #TrumpRussia stories will come out, more campaign crones will testify, and more legislation will fail. What happens then and Trump feels bad again? You know he will go back for the high he got off those missiles. Trump's insecurity is boundless. This will put the USA into a positive feedback loop of escalation with Russia in Syria. Syria isn't important enough for either party to trigger a nuclear escalation. It is in both countries spheres as well, if you include Turkey and Israel on the US side. The biggest thing Russia could get out of Syria would be pipelines (as I understand it). Russia has a naval base, airbase, and a high-ranked seat at the table of MidEast politics at stake in Syria right now. A naval base would be nice for them, Crimea is workable but not as good. Would remove the need to use the Bosphorus which is guarded by NATO member Turkey. Strait of Gibraltar is still a problem though. Don't really see what the air base would give them. Politics is true as well. They are expanding their reach now that they have recovered after the end of the first cold war. Allowing them to start the second one.
It's not like Russia has zero naval/air bases to speak of; the value of those bases is that they're in a geopolitically valuable location. Though they're not exactly indispensable considering that there are potential base agreements with Egypt and/or Libya in the work. The Syria involvement is mostly on the geopolitics end. Though it is worth noting that it only became possible to do so due to the consistent failure of US FP to succeed in the region, whether or not they act "tough."
|
On April 13 2017 02:34 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 01:28 Plansix wrote:
I like how he talked about what cake he was eating when he ordered the military to attack people. Very Mary Antoinette. Marie Antoinette gets a lot of undeserved bad rep. Afaik there is no evidence she ever actually uttered that quote. Wikipedia tells me that it turned up in one of Rousseaus book as an anonymous quotation of "a great princess" when she was 9 years old and still Maria Antonia of Austria. And the main reason why she was so unpopular during her times, the diamond necklace affair, is once again something where she for some reason got a bad reputation based on something she had absolutely nothing to do with at all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Diamond_NecklaceThere was a fucking expensive necklace, people tried to sell it to her, she said she didn't want it. Then afterwards, some conmen tricked another dude whom the queen didn't like into buying the necklace, saying that the queen would reimburse him and like him more afterwards. They even hired a hooker to fake being the queen to that guy who really should recognize her. He fell for it, and then went to the queen to reimburse him, who basically said "wtf are you talking about? also i don't like you, why would i ask you to buy a necklace for me?" And for some reason, that was all her fault.
She was a royal in a time when those weren't fashionable anymore. That's a crime punishable by death.
|
|
|
I predict it will be more cruel to the poor (especially women) and probably slightly less bad for the old than their last abomination.
In general their apparent strategy to push responsibility for the hard choices onto States is pretty smart politically. Get ready for the holy war on cost sharing!
|
Hmm.. Headline says one thing, his actual quote says something different. Washington Post is total trash sometimes.
“Health care is going to happen at some point,” Trump said. “Now, if it doesn't happen fast enough, I'll start the taxes. But the tax reform and the tax cuts are better if I can do health care first.”
Also US and Russia relations just keep getting better
|
Trump is being told that the House and Senate are not taking up tax reform and are only interested in healthcare so they don’t get slapped in 2018.
|
On April 13 2017 03:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Hmm.. Headline says one thing, his actual quote says something different. Washington Post is total trash sometimes. Show nested quote +“Health care is going to happen at some point,” Trump said. “Now, if it doesn't happen fast enough, I'll start the taxes. But the tax reform and the tax cuts are better if I can do health care first.” Also US and Russia relations just keep getting better https://twitter.com/DavidMDrucker/status/852222489627430912
the most frustrating part about Trumps "outsider" selections for high level posts in gov't is that even if there was a brilliant example, Tillerson would probably not know about it. The lack of experience is terrible...
|
United States43533 Posts
I mean Hitler probably counts.
|
Does this count clandestine CIA ops fomenting opposition to dictators that express anti-US sentiment and getting someone else installed? Cuz that's definitely happened.
Dictators ousted purely because they were dictators is a pretty small number though, and it kind of depends on your definition of successful.
|
On April 13 2017 04:02 KwarK wrote:
I mean Hitler probably counts.
You could probably use that on most countries (Americans would certainly buy it), but I don't think Russia is going to play that shit.
On April 13 2017 04:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Does this count clandestine CIA ops fomenting opposition to dictators that express anti-US sentiment and getting someone else installed? Cuz that's definitely happened.
Dictators ousted purely because they were dictators is a pretty small number though, and it kind of depends on your definition of successful.
Presume the "successful" part indicates that it's better than it was before we "fixed it".
|
On April 13 2017 04:10 GreenHorizons wrote:You could probably use that on most countries (Americans would certainly buy it), but I don't think Russia is going to play that shit.
I mean America did bear the brunt of all the fighting and the casualties and it did liberate all of Europe from the evil Nazi regime so we should at least give the US credit for that. Everything was going great for Hitler but then the Americans stepped in and it was all downhill for the Nazis from there.
|
On April 13 2017 04:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Does this count clandestine CIA ops fomenting opposition to dictators that express anti-US sentiment and getting someone else installed? Cuz that's definitely happened.
Dictators ousted purely because they were dictators is a pretty small number though, and it kind of depends on your definition of successful.
I think a better indicator of shitty results than anything else is the words "CIA trained rebels."
The last time that worked out well was... I'll get back to you on that.
|
On April 13 2017 04:12 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2017 04:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 13 2017 04:02 KwarK wrote:
I mean Hitler probably counts. You could probably use that on most countries (Americans would certainly buy it), but I don't think Russia is going to play that shit. I mean America did bear the brunt of all the fighting and the casualties and it did liberate all of Europe from the evil Nazi regime so we should at least give the US credit for that. Everything was going great for Hitler but then the Americans stepped in and it was all downhill for the Nazis from there.
Russia says hello...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
