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On April 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:15 Plansix wrote:
I find it amusing that everyone believes that advisers are pushing Trump to war. This is the guy who said he would fire on Iranian ships for making rude gestures at US warships. This is how Trump shows he is tough, by threatening to do things. People predicted the twitter threats against other nations during the election. This is the least surprising thing about the Trump presidency. Bruh, Everyone from Hillary to Graham want more escalations in Syria militarily. Trump has to be at least one of the moderating forces. Though now with the "Russians have to stop supporting Assad" line coming out of Trump's admin it looks like that might no longer be the case.
There are no good options in Syria. Only a series of terrible options, all with unknown results. Including not getting involved. That conflict could grind on for 20 years. I don’t want to get involved. But I also don’t want my niece and nephew be going to high school while when we enter the 25 years of the Syrian conflict.
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On April 12 2017 03:28 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:22 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
Spicer press conference seems to be going as well as expected
You forgot to post the context that made it sufficiently spicy.
Well that is technically correct, Hitler wasn't using them as weapons, but as execution devices. (he put them in camps and used it in sealed rooms... ie he did it "responsibly")
However the optics for that are about as bad as you can get.
(just change it to "using chemical weapons on your own population is the type of thing Hitler did" and you are on much better sounding ground)
Enemy morals=~ Hitler morals is much safer than Enemy morals < Hitler morals
(and it gets the same result)
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On April 12 2017 03:35 Krikkitone wrote:Well that is technically correct, Hitler wasn't using them as weapons, but as execution devices. (he put them in camps and used it in sealed rooms... ie he did it "responsibly") However the optics for that are about as bad as you can get. (just change it to "using chemical weapons on your own population is the type of thing Hitler did" and you are on much better sounding ground) Enemy morals=~ Hitler morals is much safer than Enemy morals < Hitler morals (and it gets the same result)
Waiting for the cringe filled conversations about whether German Jews counted as "his own people".
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United States43533 Posts
On April 12 2017 03:08 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:04 LegalLord wrote:On April 12 2017 03:01 LightSpectra wrote:
I'm actually quite terrified that Trump is going to find some way to cause a war with North Korea. I'd like to think his advisors are not complete morons that would goad him into military action, but... It's the advisors who are probably pushing it. And even if they're not stupid, military folk tend to push for war. Usually you have more civilian leadership to keep them in perspective but our leader is kind of a clown... The military officers are probably keenly aware that there's nothing to gain from a war with NK except millions of dead South Koreans and possibly a nuke. At least I hope.
There is an awful lot to be gained. North Korea is getting more dangerous year after year. The conventional artillery represented too much of a threat to stop them getting a nuke. The nuke represented too much of a threat to stop them getting a missile. The missile is now representing too much of a threat to stop them working on ICBMs. Every president just hopes that it will collapse on its own and it hasn't yet. The destruction of the North Korean state is itself the upside of a war with North Korea.
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United States43533 Posts
It's technically true in that after WWI the major powers decided to keep chemical warfare out of the European theatre. But yeah, Hitler isn't exactly known for his restraint when it comes to poison gas.
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United States43533 Posts
On April 12 2017 03:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2017 03:15 Plansix wrote:
I find it amusing that everyone believes that advisers are pushing Trump to war. This is the guy who said he would fire on Iranian ships for making rude gestures at US warships. This is how Trump shows he is tough, by threatening to do things. People predicted the twitter threats against other nations during the election. This is the least surprising thing about the Trump presidency. Bruh, Everyone from Hillary to Graham want more escalations in Syria militarily. Trump has to be at least one of the moderating forces. Though now with the "Russians have to stop supporting Assad" line coming out of Trump's admin it looks like that might no longer be the case. There are no good options in Syria. Only a series of terrible options, all with unknown results. Including not getting involved. That conflict could grind on for 20 years. I don’t want to get involved. But I also don’t want my niece and nephew be going to high school while when we enter the 25 years of the Syrian conflict.
In two years time it'll be possible to send kids born after 9/11 to go fight in the war against terror. What a time to be alive.
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North Korea... doesn't look like it's on the verge of collapse. If that is the strategy then we will be waiting a long time.
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User was temp banned for this post.
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I sort of wonder how the Europeans (and local critics-turned-fanboys) who praised Trump as FINALLY making things right are starting to feel now that it's clear that he's an idiot who merely briefly bumbled into an opinion they agreed with.
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On April 12 2017 04:00 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:35 Plansix wrote:On April 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2017 03:15 Plansix wrote:
I find it amusing that everyone believes that advisers are pushing Trump to war. This is the guy who said he would fire on Iranian ships for making rude gestures at US warships. This is how Trump shows he is tough, by threatening to do things. People predicted the twitter threats against other nations during the election. This is the least surprising thing about the Trump presidency. Bruh, Everyone from Hillary to Graham want more escalations in Syria militarily. Trump has to be at least one of the moderating forces. Though now with the "Russians have to stop supporting Assad" line coming out of Trump's admin it looks like that might no longer be the case. There are no good options in Syria. Only a series of terrible options, all with unknown results. Including not getting involved. That conflict could grind on for 20 years. I don’t want to get involved. But I also don’t want my niece and nephew be going to high school while when we enter the 25 years of the Syrian conflict. In two years time it'll be possible to send kids born after 9/11 to go fight in the war against terror. What a time to be alive.
The endless war against terror, as successful as the war against drugs. But I’m sure that ignoring the problem in Syria will make it end in 5 or 10 more years. Then we only need to deal with the fall out of having an entire generation growing up in refugee camps and war zones. That has never had unforeseen consequences.
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On April 12 2017 04:02 LegalLord wrote:
North Korea... doesn't look like it's on the verge of collapse. If that is the strategy then we will be waiting a long time.
Since the 1950s. China has been backing that horse since the Korean war.
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On April 12 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 04:00 KwarK wrote:On April 12 2017 03:35 Plansix wrote:On April 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2017 03:15 Plansix wrote:
I find it amusing that everyone believes that advisers are pushing Trump to war. This is the guy who said he would fire on Iranian ships for making rude gestures at US warships. This is how Trump shows he is tough, by threatening to do things. People predicted the twitter threats against other nations during the election. This is the least surprising thing about the Trump presidency. Bruh, Everyone from Hillary to Graham want more escalations in Syria militarily. Trump has to be at least one of the moderating forces. Though now with the "Russians have to stop supporting Assad" line coming out of Trump's admin it looks like that might no longer be the case. There are no good options in Syria. Only a series of terrible options, all with unknown results. Including not getting involved. That conflict could grind on for 20 years. I don’t want to get involved. But I also don’t want my niece and nephew be going to high school while when we enter the 25 years of the Syrian conflict. In two years time it'll be possible to send kids born after 9/11 to go fight in the war against terror. What a time to be alive. The endless war against terror, as successful as the war against drugs. But I’m sure that ignoring the problem in Syria will make it end in 5 or 10 more years. Then we only need to deal with the fall out of having an entire generation growing up in refugee camps and war zones. That has never had unforeseen consequences.
I'm wondering if you can name any instances of American military/state intervention in the Middle East that had both intentional and good results.
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United States43533 Posts
On April 12 2017 04:20 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 04:10 Plansix wrote:On April 12 2017 04:00 KwarK wrote:On April 12 2017 03:35 Plansix wrote:On April 12 2017 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2017 03:15 Plansix wrote:
I find it amusing that everyone believes that advisers are pushing Trump to war. This is the guy who said he would fire on Iranian ships for making rude gestures at US warships. This is how Trump shows he is tough, by threatening to do things. People predicted the twitter threats against other nations during the election. This is the least surprising thing about the Trump presidency. Bruh, Everyone from Hillary to Graham want more escalations in Syria militarily. Trump has to be at least one of the moderating forces. Though now with the "Russians have to stop supporting Assad" line coming out of Trump's admin it looks like that might no longer be the case. There are no good options in Syria. Only a series of terrible options, all with unknown results. Including not getting involved. That conflict could grind on for 20 years. I don’t want to get involved. But I also don’t want my niece and nephew be going to high school while when we enter the 25 years of the Syrian conflict. In two years time it'll be possible to send kids born after 9/11 to go fight in the war against terror. What a time to be alive. The endless war against terror, as successful as the war against drugs. But I’m sure that ignoring the problem in Syria will make it end in 5 or 10 more years. Then we only need to deal with the fall out of having an entire generation growing up in refugee camps and war zones. That has never had unforeseen consequences. I'm wondering if you can name any instances of American military/state intervention in the Middle East that had both intentional and good results.
Depending on who you ask, Suez, Israel, backing the military coup in Egypt, Camp David Accords, few others.
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http://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htm
For anyone interested, some tax analysis by country. Haven't looked into the data methodology yet, but US is on the lower end. UK and Canada being lower is a bit surprising, considering how much more "socialist" those two countries are.
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Suez: If you think Nasser was a great guy, sure. By intentionally sabotaging the British from deposing him, every bad thing Nasser ever did is now partially America's fault.
Israel: Depends on what you mean here, I would argue that our nigh-unconditional support for Israel has not really done them any favors in the long run.
Military coup in Egypt: Presuming you mean 2013 here. Remains to be seen how good the results will be.
Camp David Accords: I could grant this one.
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On April 12 2017 04:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:http://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htmFor anyone interested, some tax analysis by country. Haven't looked into the data methodology yet, but US is on the lower end. UK and Canada being lower is a bit surprising, considering how much more "socialist" those two countries are.
I suspect it's looking at income tax specifically; some countries do a lot more with VAT and other taxes.
not sure though without diving into the methodology.
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On April 12 2017 04:28 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 04:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:http://www.oecd.org/tax/taxing-wages-20725124.htmFor anyone interested, some tax analysis by country. Haven't looked into the data methodology yet, but US is on the lower end. UK and Canada being lower is a bit surprising, considering how much more "socialist" those two countries are. I suspect it's looking at income tax specifically; some countries do a lot more with VAT and other taxes. not sure though without diving into the methodology.
Yeah, looks like it's based on the amount taken directly from income:
It covers personal income taxes and social security contributions paid by employees, social security contributions and payroll taxes paid by employers, and cash benefits received by in-work families.
Just judging from the countries on the list, though, I think taking other taxes into account would skew even harder to the ones at the top.
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On April 12 2017 03:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 02:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:
In hindsight I'm not sure why people (including me) really believed there was even a smidgeon of a chance of isolationist President Trump with respect to foreign adventurism. Between his drum beating against ISIS, an executive thirsting for war, and how quick he is to react to...well...anything, it should have never seemed possible. Hilarious thing is that everyone was saying exactly what kind of President Trump would be before the election. He was a gamble. Except people thought that meant he would either be terrible or amazing, instead of the actual reality of every decision he makes being a crap shoot.
That he was going to be a shitshow was apparent from the start. The real gamble was whether or not he would maintain his anti-establishment cred. Evidence suggests that no, not really, he isn't principled enough to care about the things he sought out to do to see them through.
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On April 12 2017 04:33 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2017 03:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 12 2017 02:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:
In hindsight I'm not sure why people (including me) really believed there was even a smidgeon of a chance of isolationist President Trump with respect to foreign adventurism. Between his drum beating against ISIS, an executive thirsting for war, and how quick he is to react to...well...anything, it should have never seemed possible. Hilarious thing is that everyone was saying exactly what kind of President Trump would be before the election. He was a gamble. Except people thought that meant he would either be terrible or amazing, instead of the actual reality of every decision he makes being a crap shoot. That he was going to be a shitshow was apparent from the start. The real gamble was whether or not he would maintain his anti-establishment cred. Evidence suggests that no, not really, he isn't principled enough to care about the things he sought out to do to see them through.
Anyone who thought Trump was going to do anything other than what he thought was most advantageous to his own personal enrichment had to work really hard to stay that stupid.
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