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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
April 09 2017 02:47 GMT
#146141
I'm a day late, but three cheers for Gorsuch's confirmation. He joins the court as pending case involve religious liberties, gun rights, and voter id laws, among others. The first fulfillment of a Trump campaign promise I held very dear is complete.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 02:48 GMT
#146142
Washington (AFP) - A US Navy carrier strike group was moving toward the Korean Peninsula on Saturday as the United States boosts its defenses against North Korea's nuclear ambitions.

"US Pacific Command ordered the Carl Vinson Strike Group north as a prudent measure to maintain readiness and presence in the Western Pacific," said Commander Dave Benham, spokesman at US Pacific Command.

"The number one threat in the region continues to be North Korea, due to its reckless, irresponsible and destabilizing program of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability," he told AFP.

The strike group includes the Nimitz-class aircraft supercarrier USS Carl Vinson, a carrier air wing, two guided-missile destroyers and a guided-missile cruiser.

Originally scheduled to make port calls in Australia, it headed instead from Singapore to the Western Pacific Ocean.

The North has carried out five nuclear tests -- two of them last year -- and expert satellite imagery analysis suggests it could well be preparing for a sixth.

US intelligence officials say Pyongyang could be less than two years away from developing a nuclear warhead that could reach the continental United States.

On Thursday and Friday, US President Donald Trump hosted his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping for talks during which he pressed Pyongyang's key ally to help curb the North's nuclear weapons program.

Trump has threatened unilateral action against the hermit state, a threat that appears more palpable after he ordered a strike on a Syrian airfield following an apparent chemical attack.

The head of North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), which provides missile detection and defense for the region, said Thursday she was "extremely confident" of US capability to intercept a potential intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) bound for America from the North.

But General Lori Robinson expressed concerns for the type of ballistic missile powered by a solid-fuel engine that Pyongyang said it successfully tested in February.

"Amidst an unprecedented pace of North Korean strategic weapons testing, our ability to provide actionable warning continues to diminish," Robinson said in written testimony to senators.

Source

The man who Fake News Network finally acknowledges is at it again! Woohoo, let's do this shit!
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-09 06:13:59
April 09 2017 06:12 GMT
#146143
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 06:17 GMT
#146144
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
April 09 2017 06:20 GMT
#146145
On April 09 2017 15:17 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?

I think he must be responding to the people who are saying "lol we didn't even damage the runway, they can still use the base" by saying they didn't aim for the runway, they aimed for the planes and hangars and shit. Although I would still suspect that the cost analysis would make the attack more expensive for us than them.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 09 2017 06:42 GMT
#146146
On April 09 2017 15:20 ChristianS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 15:17 LegalLord wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?

I think he must be responding to the people who are saying "lol we didn't even damage the runway, they can still use the base" by saying they didn't aim for the runway, they aimed for the planes and hangars and shit. Although I would still suspect that the cost analysis would make the attack more expensive for us than them.

But...who is even saying this?
Average means I'm better than half of you.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
April 09 2017 06:48 GMT
#146147
On April 09 2017 15:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 15:20 ChristianS wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:17 LegalLord wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?

I think he must be responding to the people who are saying "lol we didn't even damage the runway, they can still use the base" by saying they didn't aim for the runway, they aimed for the planes and hangars and shit. Although I would still suspect that the cost analysis would make the attack more expensive for us than them.

But...who is even saying this?

I mean, probably no one smart. Put it this way, in the last 72 hours I have definitely seen headlines about the fact that the runway wasn't damaged, the fact that the base is back in operation already, etc. Presumably he sees a story like that and reads an implied narrative of "this attack was completely ineffectual," so he's tweeting to combat that imagined criticism.

Hey, LL was the one that wanted to try to get in Trump's head about why he tweeted that, I'm just giving my best guess
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11822 Posts
April 09 2017 07:06 GMT
#146148
On April 09 2017 15:20 ChristianS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 15:17 LegalLord wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?

I think he must be responding to the people who are saying "lol we didn't even damage the runway, they can still use the base" by saying they didn't aim for the runway, they aimed for the planes and hangars and shit. Although I would still suspect that the cost analysis would make the attack more expensive for us than them.

The interesting thing is that cost comparisons have to take into account how much cost you can take.

If you take WW2 as an example. The US could lose 2 times the ships and airplanes that Japan did and still easily win the war (did not happen). The scales of the nations, their industries, economies and natural resources allows for that.

Same is the case here. The US could spend a trillion dollars for 100 billion in losses on the other side and quickly win the war at that ratio. Not sure exactly how big the ratio difference has to get before they lose or the war becomes too unpopular.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 07:11 GMT
#146149
Speaking of coverage - there's a pretty broad spectrum of opinions on this. The right-wingers (libertarian/alt-right/whatever else) and other populists pretty much universally decry this in often pretty harsh terms. The warhawks praise it and/or say that we need to go further. European mainstream leadership basically has a collective sense of Stockholm syndrome and are willing to forget everything before because they kinda sorta are ok with this. Russia and Iran are unhappy; China sort of is but they will never flat out say it because they want money instead of asserting themselves. Less sympathetic folk of no particular inclination are talking about how little it did (have we even settled on a number for how many people died/how much shit went kaboom?). Or talking about how this can't distract from Russiagate. In short, all of the entrenched folk whose opinion hardly reflects the opinion of the population at large are happy, most others are some shade of unhappy.

What lesson did Trump learn from all this? Seems to be "we are America, we act tough unilaterally and everything is gonna be great." Fuckity fuck.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 07:16 GMT
#146150
On April 09 2017 16:06 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 15:20 ChristianS wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:17 LegalLord wrote:
On April 09 2017 15:12 Amui wrote:
On April 09 2017 10:23 LegalLord wrote:
I just saw this twit from the president and thought that perchance it would be a good chance to free associate about what the fuck he's trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/850785347038576640

Well if you want to make an airbase inoperable for a short period of time, you can put craters in the runways every couple thousand feet(somewhere less than safe takeoff/landing distance). It's several orders of magnitude more expensive to blow it up than it is to fix though, if you have the equipment nearby to just fill and pave it could be less than 24 hours before you can run planes over it.

Average person probably thinks it'll take it out for weeks, but people invented fast drying concrete and stuff specifically for fixing blown up runways.

So is he trying to say that the attack he authorized was ineffectual, or what?

I think he must be responding to the people who are saying "lol we didn't even damage the runway, they can still use the base" by saying they didn't aim for the runway, they aimed for the planes and hangars and shit. Although I would still suspect that the cost analysis would make the attack more expensive for us than them.

The interesting thing is that cost comparisons have to take into account how much cost you can take.

If you take WW2 as an example. The US could lose 2 times the ships and airplanes that Japan did and still easily win the war (did not happen). The scales of the nations, their industries, economies and natural resources allows for that.

Same is the case here. The US could spend a trillion dollars for 100 billion in losses on the other side and quickly win the war at that ratio. Not sure exactly how big the ratio difference has to get before they lose or the war becomes too unpopular.

That wouldn't really be a win on the grand scale of things. If the US sank a trillion dollars into Syria for essentially a complete and utter destruction of the Syrian government, general US intervention abroad would be bled dry even further. The Japanese were the main opponent in that war so that comparison works differently; Syria is just a microcosm. It would be more like if Nazi Germany lost a significant portion of its armed forces in its participation in the Spanish Civil War. A small war that gives them a win but that would bleed it dry for the bigger conflict.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
April 09 2017 09:28 GMT
#146151
wgergrgysehfxcthxfthbxd, jets do take off and land on dirt airstrips; fill the hole and the runway is operational again.
seriously ... why are people stuck on this runway thing?.

no word on this? - http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/us-navy-strike-group-to-move-toward-korea/news-story/2656c311af2d25aadd24d52f208e8f42
US warships, including the supercarrier USS Carl Vinson and several guided-missile destroyers, have been diverted from a planned visit to Australia to Korean waters to safeguard American interests from a "reckless, irresponsible and destabilising" North Korea.

The Third Fleet's forward-deployed strike group was in Singapore and scheduled to sail to Australia for training and port calls.

The move comes as North Korean leader Kim Jong-un aggressively ramps up his ballistic missile test program.

It also follows US President Donald Trump's decision on Thursday to fire 59 Tomahawk missiles into a Syrian airfield to "send a message" to Syria President Bashar Al-Assad after chemical weapons were used on citizens in Idlib province.

"Third Fleet ships operate forward with a purpose: to safeguard US interests in the Western Pacific," said Commander Dave Benham, spokesman for the US Pacific Command.

"The number one threat in the region continues to be North Korea, due to its reckless, irresponsible, and destabilising program of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability."
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13925 Posts
April 09 2017 14:27 GMT
#146152
The much more important thing would be the damage to the fueling depot and the machine shop on base for maintinence and repairs. those would cripple the base for a long time.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
April 09 2017 15:26 GMT
#146153
On April 09 2017 23:27 Sermokala wrote:
The much more important thing would be the damage to the fueling depot and the machine shop on base for maintinence and repairs. those would cripple the base for a long time.


or you know shred the equipment on the side of the runways. Its not like a jet fighter is actually 150/75.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
April 09 2017 15:43 GMT
#146154
On April 10 2017 00:26 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 09 2017 23:27 Sermokala wrote:
The much more important thing would be the damage to the fueling depot and the machine shop on base for maintinence and repairs. those would cripple the base for a long time.


or you know shred the equipment on the side of the runways. Its not like a jet fighter is actually 150/75.


Now I want Vikings to require periodic landings on a runway that can be damaged
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 16:20 GMT
#146155
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — In the aftermath of President Donald Trump's surprise strikes on Syria, his allies and adversaries have searched for some broader meaning in his decision.

Is Trump now a humanitarian interventionist, willing to wield American military power when foreign governments threaten their own citizens? Is he a commander in chief who once warned against intervention in Syria but is now prepared to plunge the United States deeper into the conflict? Is he turning on Russia, one of Syria's most important patrons, after months of flirting with closer U.S. ties with Moscow?

Trump would say he's simply flexible, an emerging foreign policy doctrine that leaves room for evolution and uncertainty.

"I don't have to have one specific way, and if the world changes, I go the same way, I don't change," Trump said Wednesday, a day after the chemical weapons attack in Syria that compelled him to order airstrikes against a government air base. "Well, I do change and I am flexible, and I'm proud of that flexibility."

Source

Yes, flexible would be a good way to describe Trump's commitment to his campaign promises.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
April 09 2017 17:24 GMT
#146156
On April 10 2017 01:20 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — In the aftermath of President Donald Trump's surprise strikes on Syria, his allies and adversaries have searched for some broader meaning in his decision.

Is Trump now a humanitarian interventionist, willing to wield American military power when foreign governments threaten their own citizens? Is he a commander in chief who once warned against intervention in Syria but is now prepared to plunge the United States deeper into the conflict? Is he turning on Russia, one of Syria's most important patrons, after months of flirting with closer U.S. ties with Moscow?

Trump would say he's simply flexible, an emerging foreign policy doctrine that leaves room for evolution and uncertainty.

"I don't have to have one specific way, and if the world changes, I go the same way, I don't change," Trump said Wednesday, a day after the chemical weapons attack in Syria that compelled him to order airstrikes against a government air base. "Well, I do change and I am flexible, and I'm proud of that flexibility."

Source

Yes, flexible would be a good way to describe Trump's commitment to his campaign promises.


He even changed from "I don't change" to "I do change" within the space of a single quote. Quite impressive!
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
April 09 2017 17:36 GMT
#146157
On April 10 2017 02:24 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2017 01:20 LegalLord wrote:
PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — In the aftermath of President Donald Trump's surprise strikes on Syria, his allies and adversaries have searched for some broader meaning in his decision.

Is Trump now a humanitarian interventionist, willing to wield American military power when foreign governments threaten their own citizens? Is he a commander in chief who once warned against intervention in Syria but is now prepared to plunge the United States deeper into the conflict? Is he turning on Russia, one of Syria's most important patrons, after months of flirting with closer U.S. ties with Moscow?

Trump would say he's simply flexible, an emerging foreign policy doctrine that leaves room for evolution and uncertainty.

"I don't have to have one specific way, and if the world changes, I go the same way, I don't change," Trump said Wednesday, a day after the chemical weapons attack in Syria that compelled him to order airstrikes against a government air base. "Well, I do change and I am flexible, and I'm proud of that flexibility."

Source

Yes, flexible would be a good way to describe Trump's commitment to his campaign promises.


He even changed from "I don't change" to "I do change" within the space of a single quote. Quite impressive!

Uhm... only if you want to read it that way... But that is really not what he said.

I don't have a "specific way, and if the world changes, I go the same way, I don't change".
Add some quotation marks and it should be obvious what he is trying to say here and explaining what he doesn't have.
And yes, it might not be the clearest English. But playing stupid when reading it doesn't make the reader look much better.

GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
April 09 2017 18:11 GMT
#146158
So pretty much every Republican who had a problem with Obama's vacations or his personal spending were just being partisan hacks right?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 09 2017 18:14 GMT
#146159
On April 10 2017 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
So pretty much every Republican who had a problem with Obama's vacations or his personal spending were just being partisan hacks right?

I think that was pretty much clearly the case from the outset, yes.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
April 09 2017 18:22 GMT
#146160
On April 10 2017 03:14 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2017 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote:
So pretty much every Republican who had a problem with Obama's vacations or his personal spending were just being partisan hacks right?

I think that was pretty much clearly the case from the outset, yes.

Just like the cry raised about Bush's vacations and having been dropped during the Obama years. It's getting to be an old political tradition.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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