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On April 04 2017 03:24 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2017 22:50 LightSpectra wrote:On April 03 2017 22:39 zlefin wrote:On April 03 2017 22:31 LightSpectra wrote:
Yup, there we go, another campaign promise broken. Trump's a con man. It's increasingly impossible to deny. Are the Republicans going to wake up to this soon? Will their voters?
This is the kind of hypocrisy that's appalling. Neoliberals say "laissez-faire policies works great, it just doesn't work when it's crony-capitalism/corporatism". Okay, so now we have a clear example of a crony-capitalist/corporatist, are you going to do something about it? ... No? I'm guessing it won't affect them that much; between rationalization for some, and many just accepting that he's corrupt but will help their side. pretty sure quite a number of them already accepted trump's fairly corrupt, and this won't change that. partisanship can generally justify quite a lot, especially if the other side is highly vilified. just a guess though, as I don't understand them that well. In response to "many just accepting that he's corrupt but will help their side", I hope those people realize how detrimental that idea is. Presidents that are perceived as being good leave a long-lasting mark. Reagan's influence is still felt deeply within the GOP. On the other hand, Bush was so unpopular that the Democrats got their biggest wins since the 1950s out of it, and more people than ever were completely disillusioned with the GOP and conservatism. They might be holding power now but Trump's popularity ratings are so poisonous that there's little doubt that there will be a huge Democratic sweep in 2018 and most likely 2020 as well. This is the time for the Republicans to do damage control and distance themselves from Trump, but they don't seem to be doing that at all. I loved when democrats said EXACTLY this when he got the nomination (and that it was impossible for him to get elected)
I'm sure they are all very sorry for underestemating the amount of stupidity your folk has.
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On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020.
Democrats don't have a very good chance of winning the Senate in 2018 though, since mostly Democrats are up for reelection. They blew their chance this time around by pushing an unelectable failure so hard that it was disgusting.
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The US amended the Constitution to outlaw booze. Never underestimate our ability to vote yes on terrible, stupid things.
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On April 04 2017 03:32 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. Democrats don't have a very good chance of winning the Senate in 2018 though, since mostly Democrats are up for reelection. They blew their chance this time around by pushing an unelectable failure so hard that it was disgusting.
It's true that 9 Republican and 23 Democrats seats are up in the Senate. That being said, the GOP is polling so incredibly badly that it wouldn't be terribly surprising if the Dems picked up +2 or +3 seats.
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I like the messaging here. Just shows how much better Republicans are at getting things named.
When Ted Cruz got Republicans to shut down the government, that was not the nuclear option. But having a senate rule changed to stop a filibuster is because Democrats are using the nuclear option. Dems really need to work on their messaging.
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On April 04 2017 03:25 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there. long term it's just as bad for the republicans, and the country. so it seems more like a wash long term, you're thinking medium/short term really. short term, it's mostly something they have to do for cohesion and support.
For me predicting anything beyond 4 years in politics is a crapshow, so "long term" for me is on that time scale. I mean even 10 years from now it could be bad for Democrats, if Trump gets two justices they'll still be around. A number of the conservatives still will be too, except Thomas, maybe...
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On April 04 2017 03:32 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. Democrats don't have a very good chance of winning the Senate in 2018 though, since mostly Democrats are up for reelection. They blew their chance this time around by pushing an unelectable failure so hard that it was disgusting.
That could have described either one, its not Dems fault that Biden didnt just run and win the thing.
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On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020.
No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say?
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On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say?
No seat because neener neener. No excuse is very marginally worse than a horrible flimsy excuse in the hyperpartisan bullshit that is Congress.
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On April 04 2017 03:36 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:32 LegalLord wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. Democrats don't have a very good chance of winning the Senate in 2018 though, since mostly Democrats are up for reelection. They blew their chance this time around by pushing an unelectable failure so hard that it was disgusting. That could have described either one, its not Dems fault that Biden didnt just run and win the thing.
Come now, the decision was made before a single vote was cast. Biden wasn't going to be allowed to win.
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On April 04 2017 03:34 Acrofales wrote:
I like the messaging here. Just shows how much better Republicans are at getting things named.
When Ted Cruz got Republicans to shut down the government, that was not the nuclear option. But having a senate rule changed to stop a filibuster is because Democrats are using the nuclear option. Dems really need to work on their messaging.
That name predates all of this. Changing the senate rules to bypass the minority party has been known as the nuclear option for as long as I can remember.
On April 04 2017 03:45 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:36 Adreme wrote:On April 04 2017 03:32 LegalLord wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. Democrats don't have a very good chance of winning the Senate in 2018 though, since mostly Democrats are up for reelection. They blew their chance this time around by pushing an unelectable failure so hard that it was disgusting. That could have described either one, its not Dems fault that Biden didnt just run and win the thing. Come now, the decision was made before a single vote was cast. Biden wasn't going to be allowed to win.
Come on now LL, this isn’t the mother land. Our votes get counted here, regardless of what the strong leader tells you.
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On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say?
The dems will probably say that a president under FBI investigation shouldn't be allowed to make a lifetime appointment until the investigation is finished
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On April 04 2017 03:43 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say? No seat because neener neener. No excuse is very marginally worse than a horrible flimsy excuse in the hyperpartisan bullshit that is Congress.
As I posted a week or two ago, denying a scotus appointment in a presidents 4th or 8th year is far more normal than what is being proposed.
Edit: I suppose saying 3rd and 7th is more accurate given the wording.
Besides, have you seen the numbers on people who voted for Trump so he could replace Scalia? I'd wonder if you could drive out otherwise disgusted conservatives to vote for even squishy republicans to get the seat, somehow. Whose side cares more about this fight?
On April 04 2017 03:48 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say? The dems will probably say that a president under FBI investigation shouldn't be allowed to make a lifetime appointment until the investigation is finished
Not nearly as good of a reason as "it's an election year." unless the next appointment has ever spoken to a Russian for more than 3minutes. :p
On April 04 2017 03:48 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say? No stolen seat for you. Wasn't hard, i'm sure people paid for it can find better reasobs
I don't want to get into this again, but I will state for the record that calling it stolen is either ignorant or dishonest.
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On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say?
No stolen seat for you.
Wasn't hard, i'm sure people paid for it can find better reasobs
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The democrats have now reduced themselves to the level of political hacks. With their partisanship they have lost doubly, the next scotus pick from trump will be free, perhaps much more radical than gorsuch. Secondly now and hereafter for all future justices will be even more politicized for what should be an apolitical bipartisan selection. What the republicans did screwed over 1 nomination, and then after losing the election the democrats lost the chance to confirm garland yet again. This filibuster should cost the democrats political capital, but I guess the left is not concerned with a bipartisan selection of us Supreme Court justices.
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On April 04 2017 03:49 biology]major wrote:
The democrats have now reduced themselves to the level of political hacks. With their partisanship they have lost doubly, the next scotus pick from trump will be free, perhaps much more radical than gorsuch. Secondly now and hereafter for all future justices will be even more politicized for what should be an apolitical bipartisan selection. What the republicans did screwed over 1 nomination, and then after losing the election the democrats lost the chance to confirm garland yet again. This filibuster should cost the democrats political capital, but I guess the left is not concerned with a bipartisan selection of us Supreme Court justices.
Everything you say applies equally to the GOP and Garland.
I'm sorry "but he started it" is not a terribly mature reply, but it's the fact. Catapulting monkeyshit over a Gorsuch filibuster is hypocritical and partisan hackery.
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On April 04 2017 03:54 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:49 biology]major wrote:
The democrats have now reduced themselves to the level of political hacks. With their partisanship they have lost doubly, the next scotus pick from trump will be free, perhaps much more radical than gorsuch. Secondly now and hereafter for all future justices will be even more politicized for what should be an apolitical bipartisan selection. What the republicans did screwed over 1 nomination, and then after losing the election the democrats lost the chance to confirm garland yet again. This filibuster should cost the democrats political capital, but I guess the left is not concerned with a bipartisan selection of us Supreme Court justices. Everything you say applies equally to the GOP and Garland. I'm sorry "but he started it" is not a terribly mature reply, but it's the fact. Catapulting monkeyshit over a Gorsuch filibuster is hypocritical and partisan hackery.
Garland would have been the next scotus justice if hrc won, and she didn't. Secondly, the nuclear option effects the nomination of all future justices. It is a terrible moment for the country.
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On April 04 2017 03:48 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:43 Acrofales wrote:On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say? No seat because neener neener. No excuse is very marginally worse than a horrible flimsy excuse in the hyperpartisan bullshit that is Congress. As I posted a week or two ago, denying a scotus appointment in a presidents 4th or 8th year is far more normal than what is being proposed. Besides, have you seen the numbers on people who voted for Trump so he could replace Scalia? I'd wonder if you could drive out otherwise disgusted conservatives to vote for even squishy republicans to get the seat, somehow. Whose side cares more about this fight? Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:48 Nevuk wrote:On April 04 2017 03:40 Introvert wrote:On April 04 2017 03:30 On_Slaught wrote:On April 04 2017 03:18 Introvert wrote:
There is only one scenario where this works long term for the Democrats.
They have to succeed here, hope a liberal/moderate justice doesn't leave in the next 3 years, and take back both the senate and presidency in 4 years. Quite a few ifs in there.
Edit: the gop has little spine, but I expect they will go through with it. The Democrats certainly would, and threatened to do so, so I expect to see those clips rolled out. Don't they just have to take back a majority in 2018? Don't have to hold out until 2020. No, they still won't be able to get an acceptable replacement if Trump is president. The #resistance that is forcing this now won't be happy with any choice. If they keep a vacancy for this long they will lose. The GOP used "no seat in an election year" what are the dems going to say? The dems will probably say that a president under FBI investigation shouldn't be allowed to make a lifetime appointment until the investigation is finished Not nearly as good of a reason as "it's an election year." unless the next appointment has ever spoken to a Russian for more than 3minutes. :p
Eh, the issue isn't Gorsuch, it's Trump. He's widely viewed as illegitimate by the democratic base voters, and it is his nominee. Basing it off the idea that Trump is under investigation makes it a discussion about Trump rather than Gorsuch. Gorsuch seems perfectly qualified so it'd be a bad move to not try and make it about Trump. Yes, it's deeply cynical but no more so than Mcconnell's rule.
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On April 04 2017 03:55 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 03:54 LightSpectra wrote:On April 04 2017 03:49 biology]major wrote:
The democrats have now reduced themselves to the level of political hacks. With their partisanship they have lost doubly, the next scotus pick from trump will be free, perhaps much more radical than gorsuch. Secondly now and hereafter for all future justices will be even more politicized for what should be an apolitical bipartisan selection. What the republicans did screwed over 1 nomination, and then after losing the election the democrats lost the chance to confirm garland yet again. This filibuster should cost the democrats political capital, but I guess the left is not concerned with a bipartisan selection of us Supreme Court justices. Everything you say applies equally to the GOP and Garland. I'm sorry "but he started it" is not a terribly mature reply, but it's the fact. Catapulting monkeyshit over a Gorsuch filibuster is hypocritical and partisan hackery. Garland would have been the next scotus if hrc won, and she didn't. Secondly, the nuclear option effects the nomination of all future justices. It is a terrible moment for the country.
There is no particular reason why SCOTUS nominees should not get a hearing because an election is coming up. I mean there's a scheduled election every four years, how come the Dems don't get to say "Scalia's vacant seat will be decided by the next President and Congress"?
I agree the nuclear option is a terrible idea. Maybe the GOP should try a different nominee first before they take it.
If you're consistent and say that the Dems are just as legitimate filibustering Gorsuch as the GOP was for denying a vote to Garland, then ok. Or the reverse, i.e. the GOP should have let a vote on Garland happen and the Dems should not filibuster. But saying one to the exclusion of the other is partisan hackery.
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Oops, Bennet just flocked to the anti-filibuster bloc. Maybe the nuclear option won't happen afterall.
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EPT
