EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7194
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On March 25 2017 04:45 xDaunt wrote: Like I've said before, the AHCA is a good example of why the conservative movement is rotten. It also makes it more likely that Paul Ryan is actually a dunce. And Trump really shouldn't have gotten behind this bill. It was DOA when it was first unveiled a month ago. Regardless, the GOP leadership on Capitol Hill is going to bear the brunt of most of the fallout from this. He made a quick turnaround from being cast as the more conservative member of the Romney/Ryan ticket to this Obamacare supporter. Put your names to ACA-lite or else. It was already clear that Trump was letting others fill in the policy details, so any bluster from his part would already fall flat. Since the bill is being pulled, the GOP has the best political outcome in the wake of the blunder. No vote on trash with Trump and Ryan's endorsement. And all the campaign promises ... well we don't have the Senate and Presidency now, but put us in power and we'll get this piece of shit legislation off everyone's backs ... then open up 2016 with a super-bowl-size fumble. Now, the goal is to get another effort going with more time and discussion later this year so we know they didn't give up trying after three weeks. The next bill will still make Dems howl and then filibuster, but at least (hopefully) they've learned their lesson and it'll have majority support within the GOP and GOP voters. But the fun times living up to campaign promises they never thought they'd have to keep are just beginning. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 25 2017 04:59 Danglars wrote: He made a quick turnaround from being cast as the more conservative member of the Romney/Ryan ticket to this Obamacare supporter. Put your names to ACA-lite or else. It was already clear that Trump was letting others fill in the policy details, so any bluster from his part would already fall flat. Since the bill is being pulled, the GOP has the best political outcome in the wake of the blunder. No vote on trash with Trump and Ryan's endorsement. And all the campaign promises ... well we don't have the Senate and Presidency now, but put us in power and we'll get this piece of shit legislation off everyone's backs ... then open up 2016 with a super-bowl-size fumble. Now, the goal is to get another effort going with more time and discussion later this year so we know they didn't give up trying after three weeks. The next bill will still make Dems howl and then filibuster, but at least (hopefully) they've learned their lesson and it'll have majority support within the GOP and GOP voters. But the fun times living up to campaign promises they never thought they'd have to keep are just beginning. I really hope that the GOP starts wising up to how precarious of a situation that they're in. I give all of my conservative friends and family members ulcers when I start talking about the Flight 93 Election article or otherwise point out the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the GOP. None of them has a particularly good answer for the points that I raise. Just imagine if some GOP leaders broke ranks and started actively preaching this stuff. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:03 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: So Spicer said the vote would continue a few hours ago, but now it won't? Running like a well oiled machine If spicer says something is going to happen it apparently now means the opposite. this happened yesterday too. "the vote will not be delayed" vote immediately delayed. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
In all seriousness, Obamacare staying is best for the majority or Americans. If this also helps throw out a bunch of Republicans in 2018 then its a win win for america. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18280 Posts
I can't imagine a GOP congressman trying to run in 2018 without having passed healthcare reform. Even if the new bill is a steaming pile of shit, they could spin it to look positive in some way (most effects would probably not be noticed yet), but inaction speaks for itself, right? | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:27 LegalLord wrote: Only way I see it happening is if they siphon off a few traitors from the Democratic side onto whatever bill they pass. GH and I gonna lose our minds when Manchin is the deciding vote. | ||
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Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:27 LegalLord wrote: Only way I see it happening is if they siphon off a few traitors from the Democratic side onto whatever bill they pass. It would certainly give some meaning to his ultimatum. Pass this one or else! Or else what? I appeal to Democrats instead of the freedom caucus. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:23 Acrofales wrote: So what are the chances of the GOP actually managing to put a healthcare bill together that they can all agree on? Because I can just see them at the midterms in 2018 yelling that they will definitely repeal Obamacare pinkyswear. That will work. I can't imagine a GOP congressman trying to run in 2018 without having passed healthcare reform. Even if the new bill is a steaming pile of shit, they could spin it to look positive in some way (most effects would probably not be noticed yet), but inaction speaks for itself, right? Since there was no vote they will claim whatever their district wants to hear, be it "I was for repeal and other people were not" or "I was against because I want to make it better for you guys". Imo that is the big reason why it was pulled last minute rather then have a vote and see it fail like Trump appeared to want. | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2010/h165 and even that had loads of issues because moderate dems were wary of it and got smacked in 2010 for passing it. I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happened in 2018 if this passed. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:36 Mysticesper wrote: Repubs just don't have the sweeping majority dems had in 2009 when they rammed ACA through the legislation, so having 34 house defectors wasn't an issue since they came out ahead by a few votes, and 60 in the senate also really helps. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/111-2010/h165 and even that had loads of issues because moderate dems were wary of it and got smacked in 2010 for passing it. I wouldn't be surprised if the opposite happened in 2018 if this passed. Yeah, this was pulled to help sustain their majorities. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:29 Azuzu wrote: It would certainly give some meaning to his ultimatum. Pass this one or else! Or else what? I appeal to Democrats instead of the freedom caucus. Maybe after 2018. The GOP is going to try and defund planned parent hood in every bill and Democrats are not going to cave on that. Their constituents would destroy them. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:44 farvacola wrote: No one knew just how complicated passing legislation can be. Trump sure didn't. He is used to business where he tells them to do something and everyone just does it. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On March 25 2017 05:47 Gorsameth wrote: Trump sure didn't. He is used to business where he tells them to do something and everyone just does it. But unlike in business, where you simply find a new contractor if you ultimatum-botched the negotiations with your old one here he will have troubles finding a new house/senate. Also unlike in business, when you are the only boss and only responsible to yourself, and you don't care if some project simply doesn't happen because you couldn't find an agreement with your contractors... Here there might be indeed shitty consequences, especially for someone so heavily reliant on appreciation by others. | ||
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