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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45084 Posts
On March 16 2017 11:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: In contrast to: "Also, a survey from the Pew Research Center found 54% of Americans approve of the Affordable Care Act" "The latest Health Tracking Poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 48% of Americans view the law favorably" http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/pew-survey-obamacare-support-record-high/ | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On March 16 2017 13:44 Slaughter wrote: Lol just looked at Trump's twitter, taking credit for jobs created already. He really is just going to take credit for the upward swing that Obama put us on isn't he. Say things are bad when they aren't then do nothing of significance and say you fixed everything. Can't wait to see what he says as the fed continues to hike rates in 2017. Somehow any slowing of "economic growth" will be obama's fault, right? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On March 16 2017 13:54 mikedebo wrote: Can't wait to see what he says as the fed continues to hike rates in 2017. Somehow any slowing of "economic growth" will be obama's fault, right? Probably use it as fuel to get rid of banking regulations so they can offer people loans they can't pay for. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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CatharsisUT
United States487 Posts
On March 16 2017 11:59 Simberto wrote: Trump doesn't understand a lot of things. Until he actually looks at a problem more closely, he seems to have the impression that everyone else is a complete idiot, and that there is a simple, easy way to solve everything that other people just don't see, but he is smart enough to recognize. He then shouts that out loudly to anyone who is willing to listen. Then later on he notices stuff like "Healthcare is actually complicated" and gets confused. Fact of the matter is that usually stuff is complicated and not that easy to figure out. You can either tread carefully and try to figure out how stuff works before talking about it with authority, or you can stumble about like a buffoon. Trump usually chooses the latter. Isn't the most basic evaluation of Trump that he's a pretty dumb guy who is convinced he's smarter than everyone else? The "who knew healthcare could be so complicated" quote encapsulates the man's entire worldview. Edit: removed the part where I just echoed you. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On March 16 2017 14:00 DannyJ wrote: Jesus christ his response to wiretapping in the Tucker Carlson interview was as terrifying as it was pathetic. This man is president of the United States and he responds to stuff he hears on TV in the same manner my crazy aunt does when she gets junk fake emails. Hah, you were clearly underestimating your aunt. She was a really smart person after all! %alternativefacts | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 16 2017 10:14 Blisse wrote: kwizach, what's the difference between "the Democratic party moving towards the left over the decades" and "the democratic has been very left-wing the past few years"? Saying that a party is moving towards the left says nothing of where it stands at a given time on the political spectrum. A party that starts as very right-wing could be moving left and still be right-wing, for example. I simply don't see the Democratic party as very left-wing. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12363 Posts
On March 16 2017 18:57 kwizach wrote: Saying that a party is moving towards the left says nothing of where it stands at a given time on the political spectrum. A party that starts as very right-wing could be moving left and still be right-wing, for example. I simply don't see the Democratic party as very left-wing. What happened to the Democratic party that caused it to start as very right-wing? | ||
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sertas
Sweden889 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9732 Posts
On March 16 2017 19:42 sertas wrote: doesnt democrafts have the support of all the crazy liberals i would count that as being left It doesn't work like that, though, unless you count Trump as a white supremacist organization. He has their support. You can't define the stance of a group by the stance of their supporters. For a start, it becomes impossible because most groups have the support of a wide range of people from varying backgrounds and with varying political aims and opinions. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 16 2017 19:34 Nebuchad wrote: What happened to the Democratic party that caused it to start as very right-wing? Where did I state that the Democratic party started as very right-wing? Do you have the slightest interest at all in having an actual conversation and reading what I'm saying, or are you going to keep distorting my points? If you want to address what I said in my response to you, feel free to do so, but I'm not interested in cheap attempts to score points by ignoring what I'm saying and going for straw men instead. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12363 Posts
On March 16 2017 19:49 kwizach wrote: Where did I state that the Democratic party started as very right-wing? Do you have the slightest interest at all in having an actual conversation and reading what I'm saying, or are you going to keep distorting my points? If you want to address what I said in my response to you, feel free to do so, but I'm not interested in cheap attempts to score points by ignoring what I'm saying and going for straw men instead. Excellent answer, you are scoring the points. I almost edited this cause I thought you might stall with this exact answer but then I thought that this was uncharitable of me and I shouldn't presume of what you would do. Anyway, we have this democratic party that is going to the left but isn't left, despite that it didn't start especially to the right, we have those new democrats that have gained influence and we don't deny that, but that doesn't keep the party from overall going to the left in general... Basically we're not saying much. Which makes for the most enjoyable of discussions. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On March 16 2017 19:58 Nebuchad wrote: Excellent answer, you are scoring the points. I almost edited this cause I thought you might stall with this exact answer but then I thought that this was uncharitable of me and I shouldn't presume of what you would do. Anyway, we have this democratic party that is going to the left but isn't left, despite that it didn't start especially to the right, we have those new democrats that have gained influence and we don't deny that, but that doesn't keep the party from overall going to the left in general... Basically we're not saying much. Which makes for the most enjoyable of discussions. How am I stalling exactly? My answer to you in our discussion is ==> right here <==, and you're free to respond to it whenever you'd like. So far, to my argument that the Democratic party in Congress and at the state level has overall been slowly moving left over the last few decades, as documented by political scientists, you've replied by pretending that I've said it "has been very left wing" and that it "start[ed] as very right-wing", while it should be pretty obvious I've said neither. On the American political spectrum, it is to the left of the center, but not as much as the GOP is to the right of the center. If you don't have anything to respond to the post I linked above, there's no need to add another snarky reply/straw man. | ||
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farvacola
United States18839 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12363 Posts
On March 16 2017 20:11 kwizach wrote: How am I stalling exactly? My answer to you in our discussion is ==> right here <==, and you're free to respond to it whenever you'd like. So far, to my argument that the Democratic party in Congress and at the state level has overall been slowly moving left over the last few decades, as documented by political scientists, you've replied by pretending that I've said it "has been very left wing" and that it "start[ed] as very right-wing", while it should be pretty obvious I've said neither. On the American political spectrum, it is to the left of the center, but not as much as the GOP is to the right of the center. If you don't have anything to respond to the post I linked above, there's no need to add another snarky reply/straw man. I find it really tedious to answer you without snark, cause I have absolutely no good faith belief that I can get you to say anything else than what you're saying, so if I don't have snark, what else have I got? Meanwhile, as a_flayer has already mentioned, New Democrats are a thing, and as documented by the political scientists on Wikipedia, they are "an economically right-wing and "Third Way" faction which dominated the party for around 20 years, starting in the late 1980s after the US populace turned much further to the political right." It's interesting because they have the word "new" in their name, which suggests that they are a more recent faction than the other democrats and so that they represent a newer trend; they are going to the right in response to the Republicans moving more right wing (which is both strategically sound and logical, and also, exactly what I've said) and they've dominated the party for around 20 years (but apparently they have been unable to veer the strategy of the party despite their dominance, weird how that goes). You have Chuck Schumer saying stuff like "For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin", which I'm sure he's saying in reference to the party going more left as not-a-strategy, that's generally how you lose blue-collar workers and replace them with moderate republicans, by going to the left. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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dankobanana
Croatia238 Posts
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
So, to sum up, the Democrats as a whole are indeed becoming more left in two ways (voting along polarization and on social matters), but there's not really an economic left even within the Democratic party due to those New Democrats. | ||
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ThaddeusK
United States233 Posts
On March 16 2017 20:25 Nebuchad wrote: I find it really tedious to answer you without snark, cause I have absolutely no good faith belief that I can get you to say anything else than what you're saying, so if I don't have snark, what else have I got? Should prolly just not reply then | ||
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