|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common.
|
On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common.
Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness.
|
On March 13 2017 04:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common. Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness.
I'm not sure on your point; the street roaming isn't really about reagan per se iirc, but about the best way to deal with a difficult situation, and the abuses that occurred in sanitoriums.
it's always been a real issue, i just don't see it being any moreso now than otherwise.
this also doesn't seem like a mental illness case, and mental illness isn't that associated with crime anyways.
so i'm a little unclear on some o fthe stuff you're trying ot get at.
i assumed we were talking about the non-insane kind of crazies, though similar issues apply in any event.
|
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements
|
On March 13 2017 04:49 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common. Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness. I'm not sure on your point; the street roaming isn't really about reagan per se iirc, but about the best way to deal with a difficult situation, and the abuses that occurred in sanitoriums. it's always been a real issue, i just don't see it being any moreso now than otherwise. this also doesn't seem like a mental illness case, and mental illness isn't that associated with crime anyways. so i'm a little unclear on some o fthe stuff you're trying ot get at. i assumed we were talking about the non-insane kind of crazies, though similar issues apply in any event.
A sane person doesn't try and burn down a store.
According to CNN affiliate WPEC, Lloyd told investigators he tried to buy a bottle of Tropicana orange pineapple juice at the store a few days ago but was told they didn’t have any. He was also upset because he assumed the store employee was Muslim, WPEC said, citing the investigative report.
Lloyd told investigators he planned to burn the building because he “was doing his part for America,” WPEC said.
This person should very clearly be in an institution, institutions that are few and far between. This person's mental illness should be covered in full. Perhaps it would have been detected and treated, or he would have been caught and not free to roam the streets.
|
On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements
Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?"
Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process
|
On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements
i'd be fine with making such cuts. In general though, it's very hard ot do. democracies have a general problem with debt spending.
It tends to cost people elections whenever they cut stuff.
it's hard for democracies to do things that are necessary but unpopular; cuz someone always argues there was a better way (and due to limited information some people always believe that)
|
Even if you do manage to get a start on that you're still getting shit from everyone. We've had the "schwarze null" (black zero) in Germany for some time now under Schäuble, basicly proposing a budget that results in no new debt.
And people abroad hate it because Germany could be spending more to help the EU, a large amount of the more left oriented people in Germany hate it as well because Germany could be spending more for it's own people etc.
Not even trying to put my own analysis into this or anything like that, but at the end of the day you're going to get hated no matter if you make debt or not. And Germany is a nation with a population that really dislikes debt for obvious historical reasons. I'd assume it to only be worse elsewhere
|
On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208
I mean, I think it would be a bad thing if it passed, but conservatives are totally right to feel betrayed by their leaders right now.
|
Isn't it kind of on conservatives for calling it Obamacare, shitting on Obamacare, and not telling their voters Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing? You tell your people a lie of omission for years then once they understand the ACA is good for them they don't want it removed. You've made your own bed at that point, no one to blame but themselves IMO.
|
On March 13 2017 04:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:49 zlefin wrote:On March 13 2017 04:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common. Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness. I'm not sure on your point; the street roaming isn't really about reagan per se iirc, but about the best way to deal with a difficult situation, and the abuses that occurred in sanitoriums. it's always been a real issue, i just don't see it being any moreso now than otherwise. this also doesn't seem like a mental illness case, and mental illness isn't that associated with crime anyways. so i'm a little unclear on some o fthe stuff you're trying ot get at. i assumed we were talking about the non-insane kind of crazies, though similar issues apply in any event. A sane person doesn't try and burn down a store. Show nested quote +According to CNN affiliate WPEC, Lloyd told investigators he tried to buy a bottle of Tropicana orange pineapple juice at the store a few days ago but was told they didn’t have any. He was also upset because he assumed the store employee was Muslim, WPEC said, citing the investigative report.
Lloyd told investigators he planned to burn the building because he “was doing his part for America,” WPEC said. This person should very clearly be in an institution, institutions that are few and far between. This person's mental illness should be covered in full. Perhaps it would have been detected and treated, or he would have been caught and not free to roam the streets.
he sounds more like a angry racist asshole than someone with an actual mental illness.
I'm no expert, but I'm not totally unaware on mental illness either, and I see little here to indicate mental illness.
Let's see if he pleads mental illness at trial, and whether that gets anywhere (extremely unlikely to succeed at it).
and sane people burn down things all the time for sane reasons, like revenge and fraud.
|
On March 13 2017 05:42 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:49 zlefin wrote:On March 13 2017 04:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common. Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness. I'm not sure on your point; the street roaming isn't really about reagan per se iirc, but about the best way to deal with a difficult situation, and the abuses that occurred in sanitoriums. it's always been a real issue, i just don't see it being any moreso now than otherwise. this also doesn't seem like a mental illness case, and mental illness isn't that associated with crime anyways. so i'm a little unclear on some o fthe stuff you're trying ot get at. i assumed we were talking about the non-insane kind of crazies, though similar issues apply in any event. A sane person doesn't try and burn down a store. According to CNN affiliate WPEC, Lloyd told investigators he tried to buy a bottle of Tropicana orange pineapple juice at the store a few days ago but was told they didn’t have any. He was also upset because he assumed the store employee was Muslim, WPEC said, citing the investigative report.
Lloyd told investigators he planned to burn the building because he “was doing his part for America,” WPEC said. This person should very clearly be in an institution, institutions that are few and far between. This person's mental illness should be covered in full. Perhaps it would have been detected and treated, or he would have been caught and not free to roam the streets. he sounds more like a angry racist asshole than someone with an actual mental illness. I'm no expert, but I'm not totally unaware on mental illness either, and I see little here to indicate mental illness. Let's see if he pleads mental illness at trial, and whether that gets anywhere (extremely unlikely to succeed at it). and sane people burn down things all the time for sane reasons, like revenge and fraud.
I see no way in which a sane individual goes "They didn't have my preferred OJ, plus they're Muslims so time to burn this bitch down!"
We put up with far too much garbage in this country because of the joke that is our healthcare system. "Just crazies being crazies" is a cop out from us having the worst healthcare system in the civilized world.
Also the standards for pleading insanity at trial and the standards for mental illness are 2 wildly different things.
|
so Trump team is either A) lying or B) somehow reduced the unemployment rate by 35 percent (see trump's earlier comments about the actual unemployment rate being 42 percent.) and I'm pretty sure it's not number 2. I'm curious if our president ever figured out that retired people are not looking for work.
President Trump's budget director claims the Obama administration was "manipulating" jobs data.
Mick Mulvaney told CNN's Jake Tapper on Sunday that he has long thought the previous administration framed data to make the unemployment rate "look smaller than it actually was."
"What you should really look at is the number of jobs created," Mulvaney said on "State of the Union." "We've thought for a long time, I did, that the Obama administration was manipulating the numbers, in terms of the number of people in the workforce, to make the unemployment rate -- that percentage rate -- look smaller than it actually was."
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/12/news/economy/mick-mulvaney-obama-jobs-data/index.html
|
On March 13 2017 05:52 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:so Trump team is either A) lying or B) somehow reduced the unemployment rate by 35 percent (see trump's earlier comments about the actual unemployment rate being 42 percent.) and I'm pretty sure it's not number 2. I'm curious if our president ever figured out that retired people are not looking for work. Show nested quote +President Trump's budget director claims the Obama administration was "manipulating" jobs data.
Mick Mulvaney told CNN's Jake Tapper on Sunday that he has long thought the previous administration framed data to make the unemployment rate "look smaller than it actually was."
"What you should really look at is the number of jobs created," Mulvaney said on "State of the Union." "We've thought for a long time, I did, that the Obama administration was manipulating the numbers, in terms of the number of people in the workforce, to make the unemployment rate -- that percentage rate -- look smaller than it actually was."
http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/12/news/economy/mick-mulvaney-obama-jobs-data/index.html
Lying, it's always lying.
A lie so dumb not even Spicer can keep a straight face.
|
On March 13 2017 05:32 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208 I mean, I think it would be a bad thing if it passed, but conservatives are totally right to feel betrayed by their leaders right now.
I'm following the Democrat leadership story with great interest, and what happens to the conservative movement during this time is just as exciting.
|
United States43598 Posts
On March 13 2017 05:42 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:49 zlefin wrote:On March 13 2017 04:46 OuchyDathurts wrote:On March 13 2017 04:14 zlefin wrote:there's always been crazies; how much you hear about them varies a lot over time. sometimes the media does more focus on such things so they seem more apparent and common. Crazies have always existed, sure. However they've roamed the streets since Reagan gutted mental healthcare. And since we don't take healthcare seriously at all in America let alone mental health this stuff is an actual real issue. On top of all that now you've got people feeding crazy people's bullshit ideas. Stoking the fires of their delusion and growing narratives based in mental illness. I'm not sure on your point; the street roaming isn't really about reagan per se iirc, but about the best way to deal with a difficult situation, and the abuses that occurred in sanitoriums. it's always been a real issue, i just don't see it being any moreso now than otherwise. this also doesn't seem like a mental illness case, and mental illness isn't that associated with crime anyways. so i'm a little unclear on some o fthe stuff you're trying ot get at. i assumed we were talking about the non-insane kind of crazies, though similar issues apply in any event. A sane person doesn't try and burn down a store. According to CNN affiliate WPEC, Lloyd told investigators he tried to buy a bottle of Tropicana orange pineapple juice at the store a few days ago but was told they didn’t have any. He was also upset because he assumed the store employee was Muslim, WPEC said, citing the investigative report.
Lloyd told investigators he planned to burn the building because he “was doing his part for America,” WPEC said. This person should very clearly be in an institution, institutions that are few and far between. This person's mental illness should be covered in full. Perhaps it would have been detected and treated, or he would have been caught and not free to roam the streets. he sounds more like a angry racist asshole than someone with an actual mental illness. I'm no expert, but I'm not totally unaware on mental illness either, and I see little here to indicate mental illness. Let's see if he pleads mental illness at trial, and whether that gets anywhere (extremely unlikely to succeed at it). and sane people burn down things all the time for sane reasons, like revenge and fraud.
Well, you know what they say, one man's mentally ill lone wolf is another man's freedom fighter.
|
On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208
Like Publius Decius Mus said so aptly last year:
More to the point, what has conservatism achieved lately? In the last 20 years? The answer—which appears to be “nothing”—might seem to lend credence to the plea that “our ideas haven’t been tried.” Except that the same conservatives who generate those ideas are in charge of selling them to the broader public. If their ideas “haven’t been tried,” who is ultimately at fault? The whole enterprise of Conservatism, Inc., reeks of failure. Its sole recent and ongoing success is its own self-preservation. Conservative intellectuals never tire of praising “entrepreneurs” and “creative destruction.” Dare to fail! they exhort businessmen. Let the market decide! Except, um, not with respect to us. Or is their true market not the political arena, but the fundraising circuit?
|
On March 13 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208 Like Publius Decius Mus said so aptly last year: Show nested quote +More to the point, what has conservatism achieved lately? In the last 20 years? The answer—which appears to be “nothing”—might seem to lend credence to the plea that “our ideas haven’t been tried.” Except that the same conservatives who generate those ideas are in charge of selling them to the broader public. If their ideas “haven’t been tried,” who is ultimately at fault? The whole enterprise of Conservatism, Inc., reeks of failure. Its sole recent and ongoing success is its own self-preservation. Conservative intellectuals never tire of praising “entrepreneurs” and “creative destruction.” Dare to fail! they exhort businessmen. Let the market decide! Except, um, not with respect to us. Or is their true market not the political arena, but the fundraising circuit?
I wish I could think populism's failures will result in popular renewed interest in conservative explanations. Aka we tried a radical backlash option against leftist connected-multinationals and cultural directives, and still came up short. But really, the Republican Party will probably collapse with no revival of "making the case," and we're in for political party creative destruction while Dems take 8 years of power. Which, to Decius's point, is just a delayed market reaction.
|
On March 13 2017 06:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208 Like Publius Decius Mus said so aptly last year: More to the point, what has conservatism achieved lately? In the last 20 years? The answer—which appears to be “nothing”—might seem to lend credence to the plea that “our ideas haven’t been tried.” Except that the same conservatives who generate those ideas are in charge of selling them to the broader public. If their ideas “haven’t been tried,” who is ultimately at fault? The whole enterprise of Conservatism, Inc., reeks of failure. Its sole recent and ongoing success is its own self-preservation. Conservative intellectuals never tire of praising “entrepreneurs” and “creative destruction.” Dare to fail! they exhort businessmen. Let the market decide! Except, um, not with respect to us. Or is their true market not the political arena, but the fundraising circuit? I wish I could think populism's failures will result in popular renewed interest in conservative explanations. Aka we tried a radical backlash option against leftist connected-multinationals and cultural directives, and still came up short. But really, the Republican Party will probably collapse with no revival of "making the case," and we're in for political party creative destruction while Dems take 8 years of power. Which, to Decius's point, is just a delayed market reaction.
Far even from that, we will be told that these failures were conservative, and thus we must move in the opposite direction. It won't matter that the loudest objecting voices came from conservatives, espeically if Trump uses a bully pulpit to get their votes in the end. Just because Trump is in the cockpit doesn't mean we won't still crash.
|
On March 13 2017 07:25 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 06:44 Danglars wrote:On March 13 2017 06:30 xDaunt wrote:On March 13 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:On March 13 2017 04:52 biology]major wrote:
I know the debt problem is for the next decade but it's the one thing no one takes seriously. What is the actual consequence down the line? Fixing it requires massive cuts to military and entitlements Bankrupting the future, man. But it's something like political suicide right now. "Do it for the children" just doesn't have the same pull as "What problem?" Conservative summary (shitposter warning: you probably won't agree with any of the premises) of health legislation process https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/840957770669150208 Like Publius Decius Mus said so aptly last year: More to the point, what has conservatism achieved lately? In the last 20 years? The answer—which appears to be “nothing”—might seem to lend credence to the plea that “our ideas haven’t been tried.” Except that the same conservatives who generate those ideas are in charge of selling them to the broader public. If their ideas “haven’t been tried,” who is ultimately at fault? The whole enterprise of Conservatism, Inc., reeks of failure. Its sole recent and ongoing success is its own self-preservation. Conservative intellectuals never tire of praising “entrepreneurs” and “creative destruction.” Dare to fail! they exhort businessmen. Let the market decide! Except, um, not with respect to us. Or is their true market not the political arena, but the fundraising circuit? I wish I could think populism's failures will result in popular renewed interest in conservative explanations. Aka we tried a radical backlash option against leftist connected-multinationals and cultural directives, and still came up short. But really, the Republican Party will probably collapse with no revival of "making the case," and we're in for political party creative destruction while Dems take 8 years of power. Which, to Decius's point, is just a delayed market reaction. Far even from that, we will be told that these failures were conservative, and thus we must move in the opposite direction. It won't matter that the loudest objecting voices came from conservatives, espeically if Trump uses a bully pulpit to get their votes in the end. Just because Trump is in the cockpit doesn't mean we won't still crash.
really?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
