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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7086

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 09 2017 02:14 GMT
#141701
A major trade organization for the insurance industry raised a number of a concerns with Republicans' health care legislation in a letter to GOP leaders surfaced by Bloomberg Wednesday.

The letter, from Marilyn Tavenner, the CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans, called for more generous tax credits for consumers to use on the individual market and was skeptical with the bill's proposal to transform Medicaid into a block grant program with a per capita cap.

"We are concerned that key components of the proposed new funding formulas starting in 2020 – such as the base year selection and annual increases tied to the consumer price index for medical care – could result in unnecessary disruptions in the coverage and care beneficiaries depend on," said the letter, which was sent to House Ways and Means Chair Kevin Brady (R-TX) and House Energy and Commerce Chair Greg Walden (R-OR).

In addition to the changes to Medicaid, the Republican's proposed American Health Care Act would rework Obamacare's tax credits and make them less generous, particularly for lower income people and older consumers. AHIP's letter called for a system closer to what was laid out in a previous GOP Obamacare replacement proposal, which offered more assistance to older people and to those between 100 and 400 percent of the poverty line.

"Tax credits related to age as well as income will help ensure that more people stay covered, and are the most efficient and effective way to allocate tax-payer dollars," the letter said.

Under the Republican bill being pushed by congressional leaders now, the tax credits start at $2,000 for individuals under 30 and scale up to $4,000 for those older than 60. They do not adjust by income for those making under $75,000 a year. Those making $75,000 or more would see their credits scale down the more they make.

AHIP is the latest industry force to question the proposals in the Republican bill. Hospital groups have also objected to the legislation, as has the American Medical Association.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35154 Posts
March 09 2017 02:18 GMT
#141702
On March 09 2017 08:15 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 06:28 Gahlo wrote:
Dennis Kucinich Published March 08, 2017
The U.S. government must get a grip on the massive opening that the CIA, through its misfeasance, nonfeasance and malfeasance, has created.


Good lord if that bad writing. It looks like somebody looked up any word with "feasance" to throw on the end and just put it in there. This is the first time I've gotten semantic satiation from a single sentence.


have you considered whether maybe those words have different meanings and that only including one of them would be an incomplete description of the CIA's failures in Kucinich's opinion? it looks to me like someone who intentionally included each word for a specific reason: failed action, inaction, and ill-intentioned action

Have you considered that it looks and reads like ass regardless and isn't compelling writing?
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
March 09 2017 02:27 GMT
#141703
wth?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/official-couple-hundred-us-marines-syria-225612067--politics.html


They must cooperate with assad and rusia on this or no? Else I don't see how they can deploy a few 100 marines with heavy artillery in Syria.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:33:04
March 09 2017 02:30 GMT
#141704
They're fighting on the eastern front, far from the western Syrian government stronghold.

Raqqa is pretty far from Damascus and even if Assad has the upper hand he isn't really capable of reconquering all of Syria on his own anyways.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:50:14
March 09 2017 02:41 GMT
#141705
so under Obama they try undermine the regime and support the rebels,tons of refuges as a result,who have a big impact on the elections in Europe. And now under trump they make a 180 and cooperate with assad and rusia,no longer aim for regime change. Just trying to get this straight.

Cooperation is good of course,the previous policy of Obama however now seems to have been an absolute disaster.

I don't see how they can do this without the support of rusia/assad,or am I wrong here and are they still aiming for regime change?

just wow.


edit:sry for adding more. done now.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:51:17
March 09 2017 02:47 GMT
#141706
On March 09 2017 11:41 pmh wrote:
so under Obama they try undermine the regime and support the rebels,tons of refuges as a result,who have a big impact on the elections in Europe. And now under trump they make a 180 and cooperate with assad and rusia,no longer aim for regime change. Just trying to get this straight

Cooperation is good of course,the previous policy of Obama however now seems to have been an absolute disaster.

it's not entirely clear yet what trump is doing; i doubt it's a full 180. the cooperation would be more limited. and less care about regime change; but there's still some in the administration who'd like that.

it's very hard to accurately assess the effects of a policy, beacuse a vast number of other things also effect the results, and you can't know how things would've gone with some other method.

the refugees aren't a result of Obama's efforts, the US involvement in syria has always been fairly limited.

it's a bit hard to tell from this what you think has in fact happened, and to what extent you want more information (and what info you would believe, as there's many different opinions of hwat happened).

edit:
I see more text since I typed my reply, why would they need the support of russia/assad?

As always I favor caution in conclusions, as very few have a decent understanding of most situations, and the amount of info there is to know is quite vast.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 09 2017 02:51 GMT
#141707
Obama approach: arm moderate rebels to perform moderate acts of terrorism and overthrow the government - in moderation.

Trump approach: we must stop ISIS.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 02:58:57
March 09 2017 02:57 GMT
#141708
the refugees aren't a result of Obama's efforts, the US involvement in syria has always been fairly limited.

Officially yes, but unofficially? If Obama/the usa would not have meddled in Syria in the past 4 years then there would have been far and far less refuges that I am reasonably sure off,though you are right that we can never know 100% sure what would have happened.. All this now leaves a bitter taste to put it mildly.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 03:01:00
March 09 2017 02:59 GMT
#141709
James Comey gave a speech today (or maybe yesterday?) at a cyber security conference that was, in a way, a face saving justification of why the FBI wants to have ways to beat encryption in the wake of the CIA leaks. The only transcript I found was deleted later - but available through Google cache - so I'm not sure I can repaste the whole thing. But I'll post a snippet and the original link - use Google cache yourself if you like.

FBI Director James Comey: Tonight I want to talk to you about privacy as the keynote speaker. I also want to talk to you about how we might have better conversations about privacy, how we deal with the issues of privacy, how we think about the costs associated with the tough decisions will affect your lives—I’m talking to the students now—most of all and longest. I think we need to find a way to make smart, balanced decisions, ones that will serve us well over the long run. And to make good decisions, we have to find a way to have good conversations about things that matter, and that can often separate people of goodwill. Let me start with something you heard earlier, expectations of privacy.

So, what does privacy mean to you? What are your expectations, and what should they be? Right now, I suspect your privacy revolves mostly around social media and your personal lives. You don’t want your mom to see the text you’re exchanging with somebody in bio class. You don’t want your next employer to know that you’re a big fan of taking fish-gape selfies with your friends. I understand the fish-gape has replaced the duck face in selfie world. I am much cooler than I appear to be.

You want to keep your nosey relatives from reading your Facebook posts, your Tweets, visiting your Instagram account, looking at your texts. You really don’t like the idea of the government, law enforcement in particular, seeing any of it—not pictures, not texts, not Tweets, who your friends are, where you’ve been online. I get that; I really do. I don’t want anybody looking at my stuff either. I don’t want anyone poking through my Instagram account, which has seven followers. They’re all my children, my spouse, and I’ve let one son-in-law in so far.

As much as I get that, I also think there are other perspectives in play, other issues to consider. Imagine this: What if law enforcement had a phone owned by somebody who abducted your sister? Or a phone used by a suicide bomber who blew up the train station in your hometown? Or the phone of somebody who hurt a little kid in your neighborhood? Would that cause you to think about it differently? I think it should, or at least it should change the way that we have a conversation about it, and I’ll tell you why.

In this great country, we often have a reasonable expectation of privacy in our houses, in our cars, in telephone booths, in our devices. That makes good sense. That has long meant that the government could not invade our privacy without good reason, reviewable in court. It also meant that with good reason, law enforcement could enter private spaces. Since the founding of our country, if law enforcement had probable cause to believe that there was evidence of a crime in some space, whether that’s a house, or a vehicle, or a device, some space that you controlled, law enforcement could go to a judge and get a warrant, go to that private space, and look through your stuff.

They could search wherever the judge said they could—in your car, in your closets, in your computer, in your phone. They could take whatever the judge said they could take. There are vital constraints on law enforcement, and we must never ever forget them, but the general principle is one we’ve always accepted in this country. There is no such thing as absolute privacy in America. There is no place outside the reach of judicial authority. That’s a bargain that we made with ourselves 240 years ago to achieve two things we all treasure—liberty and security.

And that bargain—“No invasion of private spaces without good reason and appropriate oversight”—has made America a country rooted deeply in the rule of law. But it has also meant that there are no absolutes in American life. All kinds of interactions that are incredibly important to everybody here, and to me, incredibly personal and private, none of them are absolutely so under the law.

Private conversations that matter most to us often at the most difficult moments in our lives, conversations with our doctors, with our attorneys, with our therapists, with our lawyers, with our spouses, with reporters, with all kinds of people that we have to have important conversations with, those are all protected by law, but none of them absolutely so.

All of those zones of privacy can be pierced if a court finds compelling reasons to do so, and have long been physical spaces in our lives that are intensely personal, and private to all of us, but none of them absolutely so. Safe-deposit boxes, storage units, car trunks, our diaries, even if we have one of those little locks on them, all of those things, all of those things can be opened if the interests favoring opening them are compelling. As strange as it sounds even our memories are not absolutely private.

Anyone of us could be compelled by a judge to testify about what we saw, what we heard, what we remember. We can be compelled to say what’s in the content of our minds even if it would hurt us, even if it was incriminating to us so long as we were protected from the government’s use of that information by an immunity order. In America we’ve always balanced privacy and security. It can be messy, it can be painful, but we’ve always worked through the three branches of government to achieve that balance in a sensible way.

The country’s effort to achieve that balance for over 200 years was not complicated by technology, because there was no widely available space in American life that couldn’t be entered if there was a court order. No car, no trunk, no closet, no safe-deposit box, no safe that couldn’t be opened if a judge said it should be open. Here’s what changed, the advent of widely available strong encryption has changed the entire thing. It’s really happened in a huge way just in the last three years.

I say it that way because encryption has always been around at least for decades, always available to the sophisticated user, both for data at rest sitting on a device, and data in motion being transmitted over a line. What’s changed in the last few years is that it has now become the default covering wide swaths of our lives, and covering wide swaths of law enforcement’s responsibilities. For mobile devices for instance, Apple and Google made the move to encrypt the devices only in late 2014.

Source
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 03:03:59
March 09 2017 03:02 GMT
#141710
On March 09 2017 11:57 pmh wrote:
the refugees aren't a result of Obama's efforts, the US involvement in syria has always been fairly limited.

Officially yes, but unofficially? If Obama/the usa would not have meddled in Syria in the past 4 years then there would have been far and far less refuges that I am reasonably sure off,though you are right that we can never know 100% sure what would have happened.. All this now leaves a bitter taste.

i'm also talking unofficially.

I think you overestimate the degree to which the US cared to and did do anything in the area compared to all the other actors in the region, and the internal issues in syria themselves.
You may feel fairly sure, but you don't really have a good enough sense or knowledge of the situation for your impression to be remotely reliable. My sense of the situation isn't that good after reading hundreds of pages in threads on syria over the years it's been happening. how close have you followed the situation over the years?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1352 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 03:09:01
March 09 2017 03:08 GMT
#141711
nvm, I am not going into this any further.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 03:13:23
March 09 2017 03:11 GMT
#141712
pmh ->
If you actually had a high level of knowledge, then you wouldn't have asked the questions you did in this thread.
It's clear we're fairly far apart, and you're not likely to be interested in my opinion, so there's little to add unless you have pointedly specific questions which are less subject to opinion.
and the claim that you'd be putting yourself at risk seems baseless unless you're asserting things which are totally cray-cray.


edit: you changed your post after I responded, just leaving my post as is without changing it.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 09 2017 03:34 GMT
#141713
When you vote a clown into office don't be shocked that he brings along a circus:

In a private Oval Office meeting with conservative activists Wednesday, President Donald Trump sold Paul Ryan's health care bill as strong and necessary. But minutes later his top aides offered some willingness to consider changing some of the core provisions, even as Trump himself suggested a fallback position — that they could try again in two years, and Obamacare will fail on its own, leaving Democrats to take the blame.

In other words, Trump was ready to deal.

The president and his top officials crisscrossed Washington to sell conservatives on a contentious health care plan Wednesday, one day after a rocky roll-out and criticism from the right had many questioning the plan's fate. But the White House team offered seemingly different messages at times, according to sources familiar with the meetings — leaving lawmakers, activists and others convinced the administration wanted to pass the plan quickly for fear of losing momentum but uncertain how many changes, if any, they'd be willing to accept.

Trump huddled at the White House with top activists from the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth, Tea Party Patriots and Americans for Prosperity, whose big checkbooks and vast network of activists give them outsize influence. The groups have trashed Ryan's bill — calling it "Obamacare lite." They left heartened that the administration was open to major change, including moving up a rollback of the current Medicaid expansion to 2018, a year earlier than the Ryan bill would. The administration also said it was open to delaying changes in the insurance market happening in 2018 and 2020, people in the meeting said.

"There were a number of changes that were discussed," said Jenny Beth Martin, who leads the Tea Party Patriots.

Yet at a breakfast meeting of Grover Norquist's anti-tax group, Kellyanne Conway, the president's counselor, indicated the bill as written would be close to the final product. At a meeting in their headquarters near the White House, Conway told Norquist's group that the bill was essentially a done deal — and that "the White House is behind the bill, and if it failed, it would be a big failure for the president," according to a person familiar with her remarks.

"This is a full-court press," Norquist said. "They want to make sure that Republicans know they ran against Obamacare for six years, and voting against repealing it is a make-or-break issue for their careers."

One senior administration official said: "The time for major input and ideas is over." Asked about the bill, another senior administration official said: "It's just a bill."

A White House spokesman declined to comment.

In an attempt to win a vote, Trump had dinner with Sen. Ted Cruz and his wife at the White House, who he famously called "Lyin' Ted" and promised to "spill the beans on his wife." Vice President Mike Pence dined with senators at his residence and talked to local TV stations. Top aides called governors across the country and chatted with House leadership on a strategy. Some lawmakers received personal calls from Trump's office. The White House has to overcome widespread opposition, from hospital and health care groups to Republican senators to conservative House members.

It remains unclear if Trump has sufficient votes in either body.

Many conservatives in the House and Senate were careful not to criticize Trump — worried about the power of his Twitter account and the potential wrath from constituents over voting against a repeal effort. As if to underscore that point, Trump is planning to go to districts where he is popular and some of the lawmakers live.

Still, many conservative lawmakers remain hopeful they can secure some concessions during negotiations.

"It will be fun," said Rep. Dave Brat of an invitation extended to conservatives to bowl at the White House in the coming days. Right now, the Virginia Republican is opposing the Ryan plan. "He's a negotiator. I can't wait!"

Some called for the process to slow down, as Ryan's office aims for a vote in two weeks. And others huddled with Trump aides, trying to figure out the scope of changes they would consider.

“The Trump Administration said they were open to amendments,” said Rep. Joe Barton, a Republican of Texas, who is offering an amendment to phase out the current Medicaid expansion in 2017 instead of 2020. “The Freedom Caucus, of which I am a member, has come out in opposition — at least informally, to the bill... If they accept my amendment or some version of it, it would … go a long way toward getting conservatives to support the bill.”

RSC Chairman Mark Walker (R-N.C.), who railed against an older draft of the bill last week, also suggested he could possibly support the measure if leadership adopted Barton’s amendment. He also wants them to consider changing health care tax credits included in the Ryan measure. Conservatives say the credits will create a new entitlement, and they’re pushing leadership to change the provision to a deduction, which doesn’t allow lower-income Americans, many of whom don’t pay taxes, to receive checks in the mail.

“We’ve come up with two things that we’re asking for some help on: One is the refundability of the tax credits and the second thing is an immediate freeze on the Medicaid expansion — well, not immediate, within the 115th Congress,” he said. “If we had some help on those two areas, then I’ll go ahead and say for the first time, we’ll be a hard yes.

Privately, senior Republicans sources say they’re dreaming. Such changes to the bill would likely turn off moderate members of the conference. GOP leadership will do whatever it needs to “protect” the legislation from poison pills that kill it — and many top Republicans believe these might tank the repeal effort.

In the meeting with activists, who sat around the president's Oval Office desk in a semi-circle, Trump made a 90-second case for tax credits, the people with knowledge said. Top aides like strategist Steve Bannon, Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, legislative affairs head Marc Short and Conway were present but largely stayed silent, and Trump largely listened during much of the meeting. Budget Director Mick Mulvaney and Andrew Bremberg, a domestic policy aide, led discussions.

The administration showed a willingness to consider moving up Medicaid changes from 2019 to 2018 and insurance changes from 2020 to 2018, the people with knowledge said, surprising some of the activists — who believed there might be less policy flexibility. It was unclear if Trump would actually move forward, several people with knowledge said.

"There was no budging on tax credits," one official in the meeting said. "That remains the biggest sticking point."

The activists and the administration squabbled over a bill put on the president's desk in 2015. The activists said that bill didn't have tax credits in it, while the administration maintained that it did, the people with knowledge of the meeting said. Neither side conceded.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 09 2017 03:35 GMT
#141714
On March 09 2017 11:59 LegalLord wrote:
James Comey gave a speech today (or maybe yesterday?) at a cyber security conference that was, in a way, a face saving justification of why the FBI wants to have ways to beat encryption in the wake of the CIA leaks. The only transcript I found was deleted later - but available through Google cache - so I'm not sure I can repaste the whole thing. But I'll post a snippet and the original link - use Google cache yourself if you like.

Show nested quote +
FBI Director James Comey: Tonight I want to talk to you about privacy as the keynote speaker. I also want to talk to you about how we might have better conversations about privacy, how we deal with the issues of privacy, how we think about the costs associated with the tough decisions will affect your lives—I’m talking to the students now—most of all and longest. I think we need to find a way to make smart, balanced decisions, ones that will serve us well over the long run. And to make good decisions, we have to find a way to have good conversations about things that matter, and that can often separate people of goodwill. Let me start with something you heard earlier, expectations of privacy.

So, what does privacy mean to you? What are your expectations, and what should they be? Right now, I suspect your privacy revolves mostly around social media and your personal lives. You don’t want your mom to see the text you’re exchanging with somebody in bio class. You don’t want your next employer to know that you’re a big fan of taking fish-gape selfies with your friends. I understand the fish-gape has replaced the duck face in selfie world. I am much cooler than I appear to be.

You want to keep your nosey relatives from reading your Facebook posts, your Tweets, visiting your Instagram account, looking at your texts. You really don’t like the idea of the government, law enforcement in particular, seeing any of it—not pictures, not texts, not Tweets, who your friends are, where you’ve been online. I get that; I really do. I don’t want anybody looking at my stuff either. I don’t want anyone poking through my Instagram account, which has seven followers. They’re all my children, my spouse, and I’ve let one son-in-law in so far.

As much as I get that, I also think there are other perspectives in play, other issues to consider. Imagine this: What if law enforcement had a phone owned by somebody who abducted your sister? Or a phone used by a suicide bomber who blew up the train station in your hometown? Or the phone of somebody who hurt a little kid in your neighborhood? Would that cause you to think about it differently? I think it should, or at least it should change the way that we have a conversation about it, and I’ll tell you why.

In this great country, we often have a reasonable expectation of privacy in our houses, in our cars, in telephone booths, in our devices. That makes good sense. That has long meant that the government could not invade our privacy without good reason, reviewable in court. It also meant that with good reason, law enforcement could enter private spaces. Since the founding of our country, if law enforcement had probable cause to believe that there was evidence of a crime in some space, whether that’s a house, or a vehicle, or a device, some space that you controlled, law enforcement could go to a judge and get a warrant, go to that private space, and look through your stuff.

They could search wherever the judge said they could—in your car, in your closets, in your computer, in your phone. They could take whatever the judge said they could take. There are vital constraints on law enforcement, and we must never ever forget them, but the general principle is one we’ve always accepted in this country. There is no such thing as absolute privacy in America. There is no place outside the reach of judicial authority. That’s a bargain that we made with ourselves 240 years ago to achieve two things we all treasure—liberty and security.

And that bargain—“No invasion of private spaces without good reason and appropriate oversight”—has made America a country rooted deeply in the rule of law. But it has also meant that there are no absolutes in American life. All kinds of interactions that are incredibly important to everybody here, and to me, incredibly personal and private, none of them are absolutely so under the law.

Private conversations that matter most to us often at the most difficult moments in our lives, conversations with our doctors, with our attorneys, with our therapists, with our lawyers, with our spouses, with reporters, with all kinds of people that we have to have important conversations with, those are all protected by law, but none of them absolutely so.

All of those zones of privacy can be pierced if a court finds compelling reasons to do so, and have long been physical spaces in our lives that are intensely personal, and private to all of us, but none of them absolutely so. Safe-deposit boxes, storage units, car trunks, our diaries, even if we have one of those little locks on them, all of those things, all of those things can be opened if the interests favoring opening them are compelling. As strange as it sounds even our memories are not absolutely private.

Anyone of us could be compelled by a judge to testify about what we saw, what we heard, what we remember. We can be compelled to say what’s in the content of our minds even if it would hurt us, even if it was incriminating to us so long as we were protected from the government’s use of that information by an immunity order. In America we’ve always balanced privacy and security. It can be messy, it can be painful, but we’ve always worked through the three branches of government to achieve that balance in a sensible way.

The country’s effort to achieve that balance for over 200 years was not complicated by technology, because there was no widely available space in American life that couldn’t be entered if there was a court order. No car, no trunk, no closet, no safe-deposit box, no safe that couldn’t be opened if a judge said it should be open. Here’s what changed, the advent of widely available strong encryption has changed the entire thing. It’s really happened in a huge way just in the last three years.

I say it that way because encryption has always been around at least for decades, always available to the sophisticated user, both for data at rest sitting on a device, and data in motion being transmitted over a line. What’s changed in the last few years is that it has now become the default covering wide swaths of our lives, and covering wide swaths of law enforcement’s responsibilities. For mobile devices for instance, Apple and Google made the move to encrypt the devices only in late 2014.

Source

While this is all well and good, the issue he's glossing over is that in a physical world, there will be evidence and witnesses to someone accessing your life (with or without a warrant). Those are part of the checks and balances of the system, so that power is not abused.

If they want into my safety deposit box, they need to present a warrant to the bank, get the physical box, and open it.

If the government wants into my email or facebook pages, assuming those are secure systems, then they can present a warrant to Google or Facebook or my ISP, and they can provide the access to that.

But if the intelligence agencies are given backdoors to encryption, or if strong encryption is outlawed, then it is impossible to say what information has truly been gathered. If the police receive a warrant to set up a Stingray device, it is their word and their word alone that tells you they only filtered for the suspects phone records, and everything else was ignored. If the CIA has backdoor access to Facebook's data, then is only their word saying they are not touching anything that a warrant hasn't granted them.

I understand why law enforcement groups want to have more access, but they are not granted the benefit of the doubt, as (supposedly) the system designed it to be.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 04:26:31
March 09 2017 03:46 GMT
#141715
On March 09 2017 11:57 pmh wrote:
the refugees aren't a result of Obama's efforts, the US involvement in syria has always been fairly limited.

Officially yes, but unofficially? If Obama/the usa would not have meddled in Syria in the past 4 years then there would have been far and far less refuges that I am reasonably sure off,though you are right that we can never know 100% sure what would have happened.. All this now leaves a bitter taste to put it mildly.


The US under Obama has had very limited involvement in Syria, this is true - they were only arming a small faction of rebels. However, it is quite easy to pin the whole mess on the US by going back to the invasion of Iraq. It is quite likely that the ideology of the Sunni extremist groups from the Iraq (who were in the army that was disbanded during the invasion and formed ISIS) also bled into Syria. This likely caused Assad (as a patheticly stupid and idiotic leader) to attempt to strengthen his grip on the country through vicious means as he pushed back against the Sunnis in various ways, which simply caused more resistance in the Sunni populace. Eventually a large portion of Sunnis defected from the Syrian army, most of them joining ISIS and some of them forming "moderate Islamist rebel groups". Then you have the massacre, large portions of the country taken over by ISIS, rebels and extremists fighting everywhere, and refugees start pouring out of the country.

In short: the US invaded Iraq, destabilized the region, and then with the help of the Saudis (who helped arm ISIS) poured weapons into the whole mess to continuously make it worse. I do not understand why any of this happened, because it makes absolutely no logical sense to do any of this.

The fact that the US is now fucking over everyone by abandoning any attempt at taking in refugees is just icing on the cake.

Oh yeah, and the constant spying. Europeans are just a market of consumers and meat-puppets without rights to the US government. Nice allies. Thanks a lot.

Edit: Come to think of it, all of this is making things a lot easier for Russia to accomplish their goals as well. It's giving them an easy way to break apart the EU (if they're even doing anything notable at all). Just fund the political groups that don't want the refugees (and the Muslims), cause they're all blaming it on the EU for no apparent reason. Good. Fucking. Job.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
March 09 2017 04:43 GMT
#141716
On March 09 2017 11:18 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 08:15 IgnE wrote:
On March 09 2017 06:28 Gahlo wrote:
Dennis Kucinich Published March 08, 2017
The U.S. government must get a grip on the massive opening that the CIA, through its misfeasance, nonfeasance and malfeasance, has created.


Good lord if that bad writing. It looks like somebody looked up any word with "feasance" to throw on the end and just put it in there. This is the first time I've gotten semantic satiation from a single sentence.


have you considered whether maybe those words have different meanings and that only including one of them would be an incomplete description of the CIA's failures in Kucinich's opinion? it looks to me like someone who intentionally included each word for a specific reason: failed action, inaction, and ill-intentioned action

Have you considered that it looks and reads like ass regardless and isn't compelling writing?


i have but it seems fine. i kind of like it now. it has grown on me.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
March 09 2017 04:47 GMT
#141717
On March 09 2017 12:35 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2017 11:59 LegalLord wrote:
James Comey gave a speech today (or maybe yesterday?) at a cyber security conference that was, in a way, a face saving justification of why the FBI wants to have ways to beat encryption in the wake of the CIA leaks. The only transcript I found was deleted later - but available through Google cache - so I'm not sure I can repaste the whole thing. But I'll post a snippet and the original link - use Google cache yourself if you like.

FBI Director James Comey: Tonight I want to talk to you about privacy as the keynote speaker. I also want to talk to you about how we might have better conversations about privacy, how we deal with the issues of privacy, how we think about the costs associated with the tough decisions will affect your lives—I’m talking to the students now—most of all and longest. I think we need to find a way to make smart, balanced decisions, ones that will serve us well over the long run. And to make good decisions, we have to find a way to have good conversations about things that matter, and that can often separate people of goodwill. Let me start with something you heard earlier, expectations of privacy.

So, what does privacy mean to you? What are your expectations, and what should they be? Right now, I suspect your privacy revolves mostly around social media and your personal lives. You don’t want your mom to see the text you’re exchanging with somebody in bio class. You don’t want your next employer to know that you’re a big fan of taking fish-gape selfies with your friends. I understand the fish-gape has replaced the duck face in selfie world. I am much cooler than I appear to be.

You want to keep your nosey relatives from reading your Facebook posts, your Tweets, visiting your Instagram account, looking at your texts. You really don’t like the idea of the government, law enforcement in particular, seeing any of it—not pictures, not texts, not Tweets, who your friends are, where you’ve been online. I get that; I really do. I don’t want anybody looking at my stuff either. I don’t want anyone poking through my Instagram account, which has seven followers. They’re all my children, my spouse, and I’ve let one son-in-law in so far.

As much as I get that, I also think there are other perspectives in play, other issues to consider. Imagine this: What if law enforcement had a phone owned by somebody who abducted your sister? Or a phone used by a suicide bomber who blew up the train station in your hometown? Or the phone of somebody who hurt a little kid in your neighborhood? Would that cause you to think about it differently? I think it should, or at least it should change the way that we have a conversation about it, and I’ll tell you why.

In this great country, we often have a reasonable expectation of privacy in our houses, in our cars, in telephone booths, in our devices. That makes good sense. That has long meant that the government could not invade our privacy without good reason, reviewable in court. It also meant that with good reason, law enforcement could enter private spaces. Since the founding of our country, if law enforcement had probable cause to believe that there was evidence of a crime in some space, whether that’s a house, or a vehicle, or a device, some space that you controlled, law enforcement could go to a judge and get a warrant, go to that private space, and look through your stuff.

They could search wherever the judge said they could—in your car, in your closets, in your computer, in your phone. They could take whatever the judge said they could take. There are vital constraints on law enforcement, and we must never ever forget them, but the general principle is one we’ve always accepted in this country. There is no such thing as absolute privacy in America. There is no place outside the reach of judicial authority. That’s a bargain that we made with ourselves 240 years ago to achieve two things we all treasure—liberty and security.

And that bargain—“No invasion of private spaces without good reason and appropriate oversight”—has made America a country rooted deeply in the rule of law. But it has also meant that there are no absolutes in American life. All kinds of interactions that are incredibly important to everybody here, and to me, incredibly personal and private, none of them are absolutely so under the law.

Private conversations that matter most to us often at the most difficult moments in our lives, conversations with our doctors, with our attorneys, with our therapists, with our lawyers, with our spouses, with reporters, with all kinds of people that we have to have important conversations with, those are all protected by law, but none of them absolutely so.

All of those zones of privacy can be pierced if a court finds compelling reasons to do so, and have long been physical spaces in our lives that are intensely personal, and private to all of us, but none of them absolutely so. Safe-deposit boxes, storage units, car trunks, our diaries, even if we have one of those little locks on them, all of those things, all of those things can be opened if the interests favoring opening them are compelling. As strange as it sounds even our memories are not absolutely private.

Anyone of us could be compelled by a judge to testify about what we saw, what we heard, what we remember. We can be compelled to say what’s in the content of our minds even if it would hurt us, even if it was incriminating to us so long as we were protected from the government’s use of that information by an immunity order. In America we’ve always balanced privacy and security. It can be messy, it can be painful, but we’ve always worked through the three branches of government to achieve that balance in a sensible way.

The country’s effort to achieve that balance for over 200 years was not complicated by technology, because there was no widely available space in American life that couldn’t be entered if there was a court order. No car, no trunk, no closet, no safe-deposit box, no safe that couldn’t be opened if a judge said it should be open. Here’s what changed, the advent of widely available strong encryption has changed the entire thing. It’s really happened in a huge way just in the last three years.

I say it that way because encryption has always been around at least for decades, always available to the sophisticated user, both for data at rest sitting on a device, and data in motion being transmitted over a line. What’s changed in the last few years is that it has now become the default covering wide swaths of our lives, and covering wide swaths of law enforcement’s responsibilities. For mobile devices for instance, Apple and Google made the move to encrypt the devices only in late 2014.

Source

While this is all well and good, the issue he's glossing over is that in a physical world, there will be evidence and witnesses to someone accessing your life (with or without a warrant). Those are part of the checks and balances of the system, so that power is not abused.

If they want into my safety deposit box, they need to present a warrant to the bank, get the physical box, and open it.

If the government wants into my email or facebook pages, assuming those are secure systems, then they can present a warrant to Google or Facebook or my ISP, and they can provide the access to that.

But if the intelligence agencies are given backdoors to encryption, or if strong encryption is outlawed, then it is impossible to say what information has truly been gathered. If the police receive a warrant to set up a Stingray device, it is their word and their word alone that tells you they only filtered for the suspects phone records, and everything else was ignored. If the CIA has backdoor access to Facebook's data, then is only their word saying they are not touching anything that a warrant hasn't granted them.

I understand why law enforcement groups want to have more access, but they are not granted the benefit of the doubt, as (supposedly) the system designed it to be.


yeah Comey's an idiot. suggesting that people could be compelled to testify about their thoughts is plainly idiotic. technology has only made it possible to eavesdrop on almost every conversation worldwide, something that was a complete fantasy 200 years ago.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 09 2017 05:10 GMT
#141718
I, too, am inclined to say that Comey is being completely and utterly short-sighted here. Mind you, this is in the context of the CIA leak being big news (given at a cybersecurity conference, they 100% care about this), so he's doing face saving to try to say "but we have to bypass encryption to do our job!"

Nah. Do your job without unaccountable surveillance. Tough shit but that's real life.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 09 2017 06:30 GMT
#141719
Trademark diplomacy part 2?
SHANGHAI: China has granted preliminary approval for 38 new Trump trademarks, paving the way for President Donald Trump and his family to develop a host of branded businesses from hotels to insurance to bodyguard and escort services, public documents show.

Trump's lawyers in China applied for the marks in April 2016, as Trump railed against China at campaign rallies, accusing it of currency manipulation and stealing US jobs. Critics maintain that Trump's swelling portfolio of China trademarks raises serious conflict of interest questions.

China's Trademark Office published the provisional approvals on Feb. 27 and Monday.

If no one objects, they will be formally registered after 90 days. All but three are in the president's own name. China already registered one trademark to the president, for Trump-branded construction services, on Feb. 14.

If President Trump receives any special treatment in securing trademark rights, it would violate the US Constitution, which bans public servants from accepting anything of value from foreign governments unless approved by Congress, ethics lawyers from across the political spectrum say.

Concerns about potential conflicts of interest are particularly sharp in China, where the courts and bureaucracy are designed to reflect the will of the ruling Communist Party.

Dan Plane, a director at Simone IP Services, a Hong Kong intellectual property consultancy, said he had never seen so many applications approved so quickly. "For all these marks to sail through so quickly and cleanly, with no similar marks, no identical marks, no issues with specifications _ boy, it's weird," he said.

The trademarks are for businesses including branded spas, massage parlors, golf clubs, hotels, insurance, finance and real estate companies, retail shops, restaurants, bars, and private bodyguard and escort services.

Spring Chang, a founding partner at Chang Tsi & Partners, a Beijing law firm that has represented the Trump Organization, declined to comment specifically on Trump's trademarks. But she did say that she advises clients to take out marks defensively, even in categories or subcategories of goods and services they may not aim to develop.

"I don't see any special treatment to the cases of my clients so far," she added. "I think they're very fair and the examination standard is very equal for every applicant."

Richard Painter, who served as chief ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush, said the volume of new approvals raised red flags.

"A routine trademark, patent or copyright from a foreign government is likely not an unconstitutional emolument, but with so many trademarks being granted over such a short time period, the question arises as to whether there is an accommodation in at least some of them," he said.

Painter is involved in a lawsuit alleging that Trump's foreign business ties violate the US Constitution. Trump has dismissed the lawsuit as "totally without merit."

China's State Administration for Industry and Commerce, which oversees the Trademark Office, and Trump Organization general counsel Alan Garten did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Source
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-09 11:03:22
March 09 2017 10:45 GMT
#141720
I found this to be a good article on Chaffetz' iPhone comments, and on the idea in general that if people are poor it's because they're not trying hard enough to lift themselves up/be responsible/make the right choices:

Laziness isn’t why people are poor. And iPhones aren’t why they lack health care.

In response to a question about his party’s plan to increase the cost of health insurance, Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) suggested that people should “invest in their own health care” instead of “getting that new iPhone.” He doubled-down on the point in a later interview: “People need to make a conscious choice, and I believe in self-reliance.” Of course, Chaffetz is wrong. But he isn’t alone.

While he has been met with justifiable derision for the comparison (Christopher Ingraham walked through the math for us, pointing out that a year’s worth of health care would equal 23 iPhone 7 Pluses in price), the claim he is making is hardly new. Chaffetz was articulating a commonly held belief that poverty in the United States is, by and large, the result of laziness, immorality and irresponsibility. If only people made better choices — if they worked harder, stayed in school, got married, didn’t have children they couldn’t afford, spent what money they had more wisely and saved more — then they wouldn’t be poor, or so the reasoning goes.

This insistence that people would not be poor if only they would try harder defines the thinking behind the signature welfare restructuring law of the Clinton era, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act. It’s the logic at the heart of efforts to impose work requirements on Medicaid recipients, to drug-test people collecting unemployment insurance or to forbid food stamp recipients to buy steak and lobster.

Since the invention of the mythic welfare queen in the 1960s, this has been the story we most reliably tell about why people are poor. Never mind that research from across the social sciences shows us, over and again, that it’s a lie. Never mind low wages or lack of jobs, the poor quality of too many schools, the dearth of marriageable males in poor black communities (thanks to a racialized criminal justice system and ongoing discrimination in the labor market), or the high cost of birth control and day care. Never mind the fact that the largest group of poor people in the United States are children. Never mind the grim reality that most American adults who are poor are not poor from lack of effort but despite it.

This deep denial serves a few functions, however. [...]

Source
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
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