• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:03
CET 04:03
KST 12:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5869 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7028

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7026 7027 7028 7029 7030 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 03 2017 20:15 GMT
#140541
On March 04 2017 05:09 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:02 Plansix wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:00 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2017 04:37 Gahlo wrote:
On March 04 2017 04:09 Danglars wrote:
MIDDLEBURY, Vt. — Hundreds of college students on Thursday protested a lecture by a writer some called a white nationalist, forcing the college to move his talk to an undisclosed campus location from which it was live-streamed to the original venue but couldn’t be heard above protesters’ chants, feet stamping and occasional smoke alarms.

Speaker Charles Murray wrote “The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life” and “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010.” The Southern Poverty Law Center considers him a white nationalist who uses “racist pseudoscience and misleading statistics to argue that social inequality is caused by the genetic inferiority of the black and Latino communities, women and the poor.”

Murray hasn’t responded to an email seeking comment.

Middlebury College students turned their backs on Murray just as he started to speak Thursday and chanted “Who is the enemy? White supremacy!” ‘’Racist, sexist, anti-gay, Charles Murray, go away!” and “Your message is hatred. We cannot tolerate it.”

They continued their chants until the college announced that Murray would speak from another location on campus. Students continued their protests, drowning out the talk.
WaPo

Now they're trying to give Charles Murray the Milo treatment. He's a controversial AEI scholar, which of course means he shouldn't be allowed to speak when invited to address college students that want to hear him. Administrators at Middlebury, like Berkeley, unable to protect free speech on campus. So very sad.

I dunno, it seems like he brought it on himself by being a turdwaffle. Freedom of speech doesn't mean there isn't consequences for your words.

The consequences for your words is apparently not being allowed to speak them to people who want to hear them on university campuses that receive public funding.

The longer term consequences is people confuse protest with shutting down speech. Protest what they're saying with signs and marches if you want, just let them speak in forums anyways. It's the ground floor of protecting the civil society. Hearing the other side out instead of shouting them down. Back in the day it wasn't controversial.

He was allowed to speak, so I fail to see how this is a problem.

When they said "drowning out the talk" they meant the protest's loud ruckus and lack of administration meant even the broadcast from a separate location was unheard. Given that it went unheard by those in attendance, would you admit to a problem on free speech grounds, a problem also with administration/campus police not protecting free expression on campus? Granted I'm not holding my breath on this one.


So basically administration/campus police should crack down on protests in the name of freedom of expression.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
March 03 2017 20:16 GMT
#140542
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 03 2017 20:20 GMT
#140543
Suggesting that the protesters have a right to shut down the speaking engagements of others on the grounds that the protesters have First Amendment rights, too, belies an infantile understanding of the Constitution and political discourse.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
March 03 2017 20:20 GMT
#140544
On March 04 2017 05:14 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

"Go shout them down" is such a pathetic understanding of the first amendment, I seriously doubt you understand speech that needs protecting. Our framers tried to be clear on this, but activists have twisted free speech to only apply to certain agreeable forms of speech. Sad day.


I seriously doubt you have any idea what you're talking about, so here we are then. Doesn't seem like you understand what free speech is at all. Protesting and shouting pathetic people down is protected. I'm not the government. I'm not coming to take your right away. You appear to be under the false assumption that free speech means you can say whatever you want with no consequences, chiming in, or protesting from your fellow citizens. You couldn't be more wrong.
LiquidDota Staff
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
March 03 2017 20:20 GMT
#140545
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


The constitution protects your right to say stuff and not be arrested for it by the government, it doesn't protect you from members of the community not agreeing with you and protesting you while trying to get you to leave.


Anyway the government has become a cold war between dems and republicans -_- what the congressional republicans did while Obama was in office was basically escalate the conflict and now the shoe is on the other foot and Dems are playing the same game.
Never Knows Best.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
March 03 2017 20:20 GMT
#140546
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.
LiquidDota Staff
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 20:30:59
March 03 2017 20:29 GMT
#140547
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.
On March 04 2017 05:20 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


The constitution protects your right to say stuff and not be arrested for it by the government, it doesn't protect you from members of the community not agreeing with you and protesting you while trying to get you to leave.


Anyway the government has become a cold war between dems and republicans -_- what the congressional republicans did while Obama was in office was basically escalate the conflict and now the shoe is on the other foot and Dems are playing the same game.

The point is that they arn't being allowed to say stuff and the protesters are refusing to allow them to say stuff. You can't punish someone for doing something if they are prevented from doing it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 03 2017 20:29 GMT
#140548
You are allowed to speech at the street corner or any public venue. If you are loud enough for everyone to hear you is your problem. If conservative students want to shouts and scream the next speaker that talks about diversity or civil rights, I have no problem with them doing it.

We need stop trying to push each other off the moral high ground and accept that civil discourse requires some personal reasonability. I’m more than happy to tell progressive to tone it down once conservatives start saying Milo is a bad look for them. I used to be the guy who defended Milo’s right to speak, but I got tired of trying to justify him. Find a better person for me to stick up for and I’ll happily go back to defending their right to speak.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
March 03 2017 20:31 GMT
#140549
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.


Your posts on this matter are outrageous. Go watch the videos of the riots in Berkeley when Milo showed up and tell us with a straight face that that the protesters' behavior was constitutionally protected. Here's the bottom line. You don't like what Milo has to say. You would rather live in a world where Milo does not get to say what he wants to say. And because of that, you are in favor of governmental authorities withholding the types of protections that would afford Milo the opportunity to say what he wants to say, just like Berkeley did. This sort of fascism-lite is pervasive throughout the left. At least have the courage to own it rather than hide behind some bullshit argument about how the protesters have constitutional rights, too.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
March 03 2017 20:32 GMT
#140550
On March 04 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:
You are allowed to speech at the street corner or any public venue. If you are loud enough for everyone to hear you is your problem. If conservative students want to shouts and scream the next speaker that talks about diversity or civil rights, I have no problem with them doing it.

We need stop trying to push each other off the moral high ground and accept that civil discourse requires some personal reasonability. I’m more than happy to tell progressive to tone it down once conservatives start saying Milo is a bad look for them. I used to be the guy who defended Milo’s right to speak, but I got tired of trying to justify him. Find a better person for me to stick up for and I’ll happily go back to defending their right to speak.

You're doing the same thing the others are doing. You are clearly advocating that they are not allowed to speech at the street corner or any public venue. You are clearly stating that they should be pushed off and shouted down at the street corner or any public venue.

You can argue for or against what Milo said and did but you have to do that after hes allowed to say and do things.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 03 2017 20:37 GMT
#140551
The sad world where the Milo can no longer out trans students and call people stupid on national TV because no one values him enough to put up with the protests his bile brings with him.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 03 2017 20:38 GMT
#140552
On March 04 2017 05:32 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:29 Plansix wrote:
You are allowed to speech at the street corner or any public venue. If you are loud enough for everyone to hear you is your problem. If conservative students want to shouts and scream the next speaker that talks about diversity or civil rights, I have no problem with them doing it.

We need stop trying to push each other off the moral high ground and accept that civil discourse requires some personal reasonability. I’m more than happy to tell progressive to tone it down once conservatives start saying Milo is a bad look for them. I used to be the guy who defended Milo’s right to speak, but I got tired of trying to justify him. Find a better person for me to stick up for and I’ll happily go back to defending their right to speak.

You're doing the same thing the others are doing. You are clearly advocating that they are not allowed to speech at the street corner or any public venue. You are clearly stating that they should be pushed off and shouted down at the street corner or any public venue.

You can argue for or against what Milo said and did but you have to do that after hes allowed to say and do things.

I never said anything about pushing. Just make sure you can shout louder than the person who sets their soap box up across the street.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
March 03 2017 20:39 GMT
#140553
On March 04 2017 05:29 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.


Protesting is first amendment protected free speech. Going to a funeral the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and blocking them and shouting them down is a fabulous thing and completely protected under the constitution. You can not like being yelled at for having bad ideas but there's absolutely zero civil rights violations happening there at all, no matter how much you'd like there to be. You get to have your bad ideas and I get to tell you your ideas are bad, end of.

There's also some incredible irony that Milo fans called other public people pussies for backing out of public speaking because they were getting shouty backlash but when he does it its somehow different. Really quite cute actually, but I don't want to derail the thread since that particular topic seems to be a black hole that no thread recovers from on TL.
LiquidDota Staff
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 20:42:56
March 03 2017 20:39 GMT
#140554
On March 04 2017 04:09 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
MIDDLEBURY, Vt. — Hundreds of college students on Thursday protested a lecture by a writer some called a white nationalist, forcing the college to move his talk to an undisclosed campus location from which it was live-streamed to the original venue but couldn’t be heard above protesters’ chants, feet stamping and occasional smoke alarms.

Speaker Charles Murray wrote “The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life” and “Coming Apart: The State of White America, 1960-2010.” The Southern Poverty Law Center considers him a white nationalist who uses “racist pseudoscience and misleading statistics to argue that social inequality is caused by the genetic inferiority of the black and Latino communities, women and the poor.”

Murray hasn’t responded to an email seeking comment.

Middlebury College students turned their backs on Murray just as he started to speak Thursday and chanted “Who is the enemy? White supremacy!” ‘’Racist, sexist, anti-gay, Charles Murray, go away!” and “Your message is hatred. We cannot tolerate it.”

They continued their chants until the college announced that Murray would speak from another location on campus. Students continued their protests, drowning out the talk.
WaPo

Now they're trying to give Charles Murray the Milo treatment. He's a controversial AEI scholar, which of course means he shouldn't be allowed to speak when invited to address college students that want to hear him. Administrators at Middlebury, like Berkeley, unable to protect free speech on campus. So very sad.

I reread this article a couple times and I don't see how admins at Middlebury failed to protect free speech.

From what I gather, it boils down to this:
1. Charles Murray is a white nationalist (I want to write racist here but I'll remain consistent with the writing from article) and he wanted to share his views at a VT university
2a. Student protesters don't want his ideology spread at their school.
2b. Student protesters become disruptive enough where Murray has to change locations to deliver his talk
3. Middlebury fulfilled their "obligation" (for a lack of a better word) to allow Murray to speak at a non-disclosed location on campus and recorded his talk for students who wanted to hear it later

It seems to me that the university indeed allowed Murray to speak and share his ideas on campus and recorded it for Murray's/the club that invited Murray to use/reproduce/etc.
In the end, no party outright prevented Murray from speaking but only what, inconvenienced (?) him from speaking at his original location. So are you discontent that student protesters forced him to change venues at best?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9644 Posts
March 03 2017 20:40 GMT
#140555
On March 04 2017 05:14 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

"Go shout them down" is such a pathetic understanding of the first amendment, I seriously doubt you understand speech that needs protecting. Our framers tried to be clear on this, but activists have twisted free speech to only apply to certain agreeable forms of speech. Sad day.


this, in context, is an outrageous hypocrisy. you can disagree with what the protestors are doing and i would fully expect you to, and frankly while i disagree with the speakers 'rhetoric' i also find the protesting in a less than flattering position here. but this statement is a bold, bold hypocrisy.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
March 03 2017 20:43 GMT
#140556
On March 04 2017 05:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:29 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.


Protesting is first amendment protected free speech. Going to a funeral the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and blocking them and shouting them down is a fabulous thing and completely protected under the constitution. You can not like being yelled at for having bad ideas but there's absolutely zero civil rights violations happening there at all, no matter how much you'd like there to be. You get to have your bad ideas and I get to tell you your ideas are bad, end of.

There's also some incredible irony that Milo fans called other public people pussies for backing out of public speaking because they were getting shouty backlash but when he does it its somehow different. Really quite cute actually, but I don't want to derail the thread since that particular topic seems to be a black hole that no thread recovers from on TL.

You can't violate other peoples constitutional rights in exercise of your own. It doesn't matter what your opinon is on peoples use of their right to free speech (clearly you missed taht you are useing the same logic as the KKK and WBC but oh well) you have to allow them to exercise it.

Don't start with some "I'm going to talk about stuff but you're not allowed to" at the end of your post. It just makes you look really dumb. There is no black hole that no one recoveres from in this thread. We got out of obamacare even if it took us 2k pages to do it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 03 2017 20:45 GMT
#140557
On March 04 2017 05:40 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:14 Danglars wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

"Go shout them down" is such a pathetic understanding of the first amendment, I seriously doubt you understand speech that needs protecting. Our framers tried to be clear on this, but activists have twisted free speech to only apply to certain agreeable forms of speech. Sad day.


this, in context, is an outrageous hypocrisy. you can disagree with what the protestors are doing and i would fully expect you to, and frankly while i disagree with the speakers 'rhetoric' i also find the protesting in a less than flattering position here. but this statement is a bold, bold hypocrisy.

Xdaunt has always had a very amusing understanding from the founding fathers. These are guys who talked so much shit in both public and in writings that they dueled and killed each other over it. That spoke on street corners and freely admitted that their ideas might get them shot. Now people want to be like the framers and speak truth to power, but even the mildest hint of risk or opposition and they run to the moral high ground to call everyone fascists.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 20:47:56
March 03 2017 20:46 GMT
#140558
On March 04 2017 05:43 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:29 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.


Protesting is first amendment protected free speech. Going to a funeral the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and blocking them and shouting them down is a fabulous thing and completely protected under the constitution. You can not like being yelled at for having bad ideas but there's absolutely zero civil rights violations happening there at all, no matter how much you'd like there to be. You get to have your bad ideas and I get to tell you your ideas are bad, end of.

There's also some incredible irony that Milo fans called other public people pussies for backing out of public speaking because they were getting shouty backlash but when he does it its somehow different. Really quite cute actually, but I don't want to derail the thread since that particular topic seems to be a black hole that no thread recovers from on TL.

You can't violate other peoples constitutional rights in exercise of your own. It doesn't matter what your opinon is on peoples use of their right to free speech (clearly you missed taht you are useing the same logic as the KKK and WBC but oh well) you have to allow them to exercise it.

Don't start with some "I'm going to talk about stuff but you're not allowed to" at the end of your post. It just makes you look really dumb. There is no black hole that no one recoveres from in this thread. We got out of obamacare even if it took us 2k pages to do it.


How are you not allowed to talk about stuff? I haven't shot you or kidnapped you.

Tell me which civil right I'm violating and exactly how I'm violating it protesting you.

And yes, there are topics on TL that end up with the thread shut down every single time. Certain topics people can't handle. Not talking about free speech in general with this statement, but a specific incident.
LiquidDota Staff
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
March 03 2017 20:48 GMT
#140559
On March 04 2017 05:43 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:29 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.


Protesting is first amendment protected free speech. Going to a funeral the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and blocking them and shouting them down is a fabulous thing and completely protected under the constitution. You can not like being yelled at for having bad ideas but there's absolutely zero civil rights violations happening there at all, no matter how much you'd like there to be. You get to have your bad ideas and I get to tell you your ideas are bad, end of.

There's also some incredible irony that Milo fans called other public people pussies for backing out of public speaking because they were getting shouty backlash but when he does it its somehow different. Really quite cute actually, but I don't want to derail the thread since that particular topic seems to be a black hole that no thread recovers from on TL.

You can't violate other peoples constitutional rights in exercise of your own. It doesn't matter what your opinon is on peoples use of their right to free speech (clearly you missed taht you are useing the same logic as the KKK and WBC but oh well) you have to allow them to exercise it.

Don't start with some "I'm going to talk about stuff but you're not allowed to" at the end of your post. It just makes you look really dumb. There is no black hole that no one recoveres from in this thread. We got out of obamacare even if it took us 2k pages to do it.

The Constitution is a guarantee from the government to its citizens, not citizens with each other.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 20:52:46
March 03 2017 20:49 GMT
#140560
On March 04 2017 05:48 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2017 05:43 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:39 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:29 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:16 Sermokala wrote:
On March 04 2017 05:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Can we not sully the name of punk by comparing it to conservatism, the least punk thing in the known universe?

People should protest the shit out of Milo. They should protest the shit out of the alt right, the KKK, neo-nazis, the WBC, anyone with abhorrent beliefs. Go shout them down and show them they're weak and pathetic. That's your first amendment in action. People do, and should protest awful people who hate monger, there's zero wrong with that, it's actually fantastic.

The constitution disagrees with you unfortunately. The first amendment protects peoples right to free speech and that doesn't end where people disagree with them. You can protest them but you can't violate their civil rights.


Who said anything about violating civil rights? Protesting awful people violates nothing. You've created some sort of civil rights violation strawman.

No I created a clear civil rights argument beacuse you think protesting what you think are "awful people" is somehow okay despite useing the same exact rational that the people you are against use to protest gays, blacks, and jews. I'm pretty sure the WBC protests because they think gay people are "awful people" and have successful sued on first amendment rights to people stoping them from protesting.


Protesting is first amendment protected free speech. Going to a funeral the Westboro Baptist Church is picketing and blocking them and shouting them down is a fabulous thing and completely protected under the constitution. You can not like being yelled at for having bad ideas but there's absolutely zero civil rights violations happening there at all, no matter how much you'd like there to be. You get to have your bad ideas and I get to tell you your ideas are bad, end of.

There's also some incredible irony that Milo fans called other public people pussies for backing out of public speaking because they were getting shouty backlash but when he does it its somehow different. Really quite cute actually, but I don't want to derail the thread since that particular topic seems to be a black hole that no thread recovers from on TL.

You can't violate other peoples constitutional rights in exercise of your own. It doesn't matter what your opinon is on peoples use of their right to free speech (clearly you missed taht you are useing the same logic as the KKK and WBC but oh well) you have to allow them to exercise it.

Don't start with some "I'm going to talk about stuff but you're not allowed to" at the end of your post. It just makes you look really dumb. There is no black hole that no one recoveres from in this thread. We got out of obamacare even if it took us 2k pages to do it.

The Constitution is a guarantee from the government to its citizens, not citizens with each other.

I feel like this point is often overlooked when people bring up free speech rights.

Edit: So Middlebury College is a private university. So even if the university at an official capacity didn't want Murray to speak on their campus, I imagine no constitutional rights/laws are broken?
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Prev 1 7026 7027 7028 7029 7030 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 142
WinterStarcraft49
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13243
Rain 1188
scan(afreeca) 48
LuMiX 2
League of Legends
Doublelift5731
Other Games
summit1g9698
JimRising 516
XaKoH 283
NeuroSwarm88
ViBE55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick739
BasetradeTV148
Counter-Strike
PGL92
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 14
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 98
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra803
• Shiphtur296
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
7h 57m
IPSL
13h 57m
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
BSL
16h 57m
Cross vs Puma
Artosis vs Spine
Replay Cast
19h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
IPSL
6 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.