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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On December 08 2013 07:36 Hagen0 wrote:
Cooking healthy meals for yourself is considerably cheaper than eating at a fast food restaurant. (At least it is here in Germany.) Provided of course you don't buy organic food which is markedly more expensive for no proven benefit in quality or healthiness. It's a bit different for heavily processed foodstuff which can be worse for your health.
I would say it's pretty similar in the US, at least it was in the San Francisco Bay Area.
I moved to Japan and it's no comparison, eating out is cheaper than cooking at home, especially since vegetables and even rice are very expensive. Steaks are a luxury. But Tokyo restaurants are very rangy - if you want to eat cheap, you can eat well on the cheap (if you ever visit, $1 corn dogs at 7-11 taste really good in Japan). If you want to go pricey, you can pay the moon and get extraordinary food (e.g. $300 for 10-15 pieces of sushi at Jiro's).
But without getting too deep into nutrition instead of the politics of whether poor people cannot afford to eat, I will point out that there is an interesting fact that although Japanese people eat much less than Americans, they almost always report feeling more satisfied with their meals. I think there's a huge missing component in the US of the distinction between eating until you're full and eating until you feel sated.
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On December 08 2013 10:13 coverpunch wrote:
But without getting too deep into nutrition instead of the politics of whether poor people cannot afford to eat, I will point out that there is an interesting fact that although Japanese people eat much less than Americans, they almost always report feeling more satisfied with their meals. I think there's a huge missing component in the US of the distinction between eating until you're full and eating until you feel sated.
interestingly, monoculture tends to lead to soil depletion, which leads to foods with fewer nutrients, which means that your brain doesn't receive satiety signals which would cause you to stop eating. overall, because of industrial agriculture, we end up eating more, less nutritious food
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On December 08 2013 08:59 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 07:55 ZeaL. wrote:On December 08 2013 07:01 sam!zdat wrote:On December 08 2013 06:56 ZeaL. wrote:
Granted, this is all anecdotal data, and there probably truly are so called "food deserts" where groceries are not available, but it seems to me that these food deserts are more a consequence of less demand for groceries rather than some sort of nefarious plot to deny poor people the ability to purchase groceries. systematic oppression never requires a nefarious plot, if only it were that simple So what is the source of systematic oppression? A mix of human nature and separate classes? Unknown variables? I'm curious. you are ignoring the self-reinforcing nature of the problem - people who grow up in food deserts and eat nothing but fast food are essentially trapped because they don't know anything else and haven't been educated about nutrition. it's therefore just ignoring the problem to say "well they are rational consumers, it is their own fault if they are all in terrible health."
Sure, I totally agree here. I guess there's a question of how this whole process of forgetting how to cook and begin preferring less nutritious food began, but that's going a little off topic.
The question then is, can you change someone's preferences for food? Can you break the cycle?
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yes, I think we should kick all the food lobbyists and corporate food service contracting out of schools and teach kids how to cook and eat healthy food as part of the curriculum, like the French do. but that's just because I'm a fascist and I hate freedom.
there's a really damning expose of how corporate food interests have insinuated their greasy tentacles into our school system in Marion Nestle's book _Food Politics_ which I highly recommend. One horrible dynamic of the last few decades has been cash-strapped schools fighting budget cuts who turn to corporate sponsorship in order to raise money, which means having all kinds of fast food and soda and whatever in school. Basically we have a situation in which our school system explicitly trains kids to make poor food choices.
every school should have a garden/farm attached to it, which the kids work themselves, harvest, and cook. You can have biology and chemistry instruction right out in the garden as you are growing your food.
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I'm fine with more home economics/management being a part of curricula.
Pesky budget problems. Though from what I hear, there's also a lot of issues with kids just refusing to eat stuff when provided healthier options. There's been a lot of pushback against those sponsorships, and I think that mitigates the problems a lot.
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On December 08 2013 11:57 zlefin wrote:
kids just refusing to eat stuff when provided healthier options.
don't let the little fucks terrorize you. make them.
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On December 08 2013 12:02 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 11:57 zlefin wrote:
kids just refusing to eat stuff when provided healthier options. don't let the little fucks terrorize you. make them.
That requires actual parenting. A skill that seems to become more and more rare.
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That makes no sense. We haven't been talking parenting, but school meals; so you're statements lack clear context.
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I don't understand why people are comparing eating healthier from the market to eating unhealthy fast food. There are a lot of differences than just $ cost. Things like stress, risk, energy levels, and ease that go into it. Fast food is better in a lot of metrics, like ease and stress, possibly cost as well. "People just don't know how to shop for deals!" can also be twisted as, "People just don't have the time/energy to shop for deals!"
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SEATTLE, Dec. 6 (UPI) -- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell told a Seattle audience universal healthcare would show the world the United States takes care of "all of our citizens."
Speaking Thursday at a fundraiser sponsored by the University of Washington School of Medicine and the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Powell said he doesn't see why the United States "can't do what Europe is doing, what Canada is doing, what Korea is doing, what all these other places are doing."
Puget Sound Business Journal reported Powell, a prostate cancer survivor, made the remarks at the Prostate Cancer Survivors Celebration Breakfast fundraiser.
"We are a wealthy enough country with the capacity to make sure that every one of our fellow citizens has access to quality health care," he said. "(Let's show) the rest of the world what our democratic system is all about and how we take care of all of our citizens."
Powell, a Republican who was a career Army officer before serving in the administration of President George W. Bush, said he and his wife, Alma, have benefited from the government healthcare they have received.
"I am not an expert in healthcare, or Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act, or however you choose to describe it," he said, "but I do know this -- I have benefited from that kind of universal healthcare in my 55 years of public life."
Source
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I wonder what administration job Powell is angling for. Maybe he wants a piece of negotiations with China or for the TPP?
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On December 08 2013 12:38 aksfjh wrote:
I don't understand why people are comparing eating healthier from the market to eating unhealthy fast food. There are a lot of differences than just $ cost. Things like stress, risk, energy levels, and ease that go into it. Fast food is better in a lot of metrics, like ease and stress, possibly cost as well. "People just don't know how to shop for deals!" can also be twisted as, "People just don't have the time/energy to shop for deals!"
I think most people are assuming those things are baked in when they talk about relative cost. Fast food packs a high calorie punch at low cost by every measure - it's cheap, it's fast, it's easy, and it tastes good even with substandard and questionable ingredients.
We could compare foods to cook at home in the same way. A stew or a sandwich is also very cheap and easy to make for something that tastes pretty good. As opposed to, say, making a roast beef, which is relatively expensive, slow, and tough to cook well.
But we short-hand the spectrum into fast food and cooking at home as primary examples of cheap vs expensive in all respects.
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On December 08 2013 12:51 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 12:38 aksfjh wrote:
I don't understand why people are comparing eating healthier from the market to eating unhealthy fast food. There are a lot of differences than just $ cost. Things like stress, risk, energy levels, and ease that go into it. Fast food is better in a lot of metrics, like ease and stress, possibly cost as well. "People just don't know how to shop for deals!" can also be twisted as, "People just don't have the time/energy to shop for deals!" I think most people are assuming those things are baked in when they talk about relative cost. Fast food packs a high calorie punch at low cost by every measure - it's cheap, it's fast, it's easy, and it tastes good even with substandard and questionable ingredients. We could compare foods to cook at home in the same way. A stew or a sandwich is also very cheap and easy to make for something that tastes pretty good. As opposed to, say, making a roast beef, which is relatively expensive, slow, and tough to cook well. But we short-hand the spectrum into fast food and cooking at home as primary examples of cheap vs expensive in all respects.
But they're not. Mix in time considerations and cooking is a whole different level than fast food.
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iunno man, eating well isn't that hard imo.
a 10lb bag of rice feeds me for like 4 months and is about 7 bucks. most of my other dishes are pretty basic, usually a combination of meat (frozen chicken, sometimes pork or steak) with veggies (frozen stuff, or carrots, spinach, lettuce). takes an hour to prep, cook, eat, wash and relax for a few minutes. i'd value the cost of a meal for me at around $3 in pure groceries, and i think it also very relaxing.
breakfast i do a lot of things with eggs, like quiche in a cup. it costs less than a dollar and takes like five minutes in the microwave. since i love cooking, here's the recipe:
+ Show Spoiler +2 eggs
a couple tablespoons of cream cheese
a slice of butter
ham
spinach
a little milk
salt and pepper
cheese
a few thumbnail sized pieces of bread
1. take everything and put in a mug and stir thoroughly
2. microwave for about a minute
3. remove and stir thoroughly again
4. microwave for a minute
5. take out and eat when fully cooked
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there's plenty of easy ways to cook that don't take much time at all. There's also good ways to make bulk food that you can then store up precooked and microwave later.
It really does seem like a good thing they should teach in school.
I think I'm gonna email my local high school and ask if they have something like that, because it's a good idea.
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On December 08 2013 13:04 ticklishmusic wrote:iunno man, eating well isn't that hard imo. a 10lb bag of rice feeds me for like 4 months and is about 7 bucks. most of my other dishes are pretty basic, usually a combination of meat (frozen chicken, sometimes pork or steak) with veggies (frozen stuff, or carrots, spinach, lettuce). takes an hour to prep, cook, eat, wash and relax for a few minutes. i'd value the cost of a meal for me at around $3 in pure groceries, and i think it also very relaxing. breakfast i do a lot of things with eggs, like quiche in a cup. it costs less than a dollar and takes like five minutes in the microwave. since i love cooking, here's the recipe: + Show Spoiler +2 eggs
a couple tablespoons of cream cheese
a slice of butter
ham
spinach
a little milk
salt and pepper
cheese
a few thumbnail sized pieces of bread
1. take everything and put in a mug and stir thoroughly
2. microwave for about a minute
3. remove and stir thoroughly again
4. microwave for a minute
5. take out and eat when fully cooked
lol. I just can't get over the microwave part... and there are two microwave parts :D
probably gonna try when I am really drunk.
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WASHINGTON -- Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Sunday he opposes extending unemployment benefits for workers, arguing that it would be a "disservice" to jobless individuals.
"I do support unemployment benefits for the 26 weeks that they're paid for. If you extend it beyond that, you do a disservice to these workers," he said in an interview on "Fox News Sunday."
About 1.3 million long-term jobless Americans will lose federal benefits if Congress fails to reauthorize the Emergency Unemployment Compensation program, which expires at the end of December.
Without congressional action, the most time that people could get would be six months of state unemployment benefits.
"When you allow people to be on unemployment insurance for 99 weeks, you're causing them to become part of this perpetual unemployed group in our economy," Paul argued on "Fox News Sunday."
Source
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On December 08 2013 14:02 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2013 13:04 ticklishmusic wrote:iunno man, eating well isn't that hard imo. a 10lb bag of rice feeds me for like 4 months and is about 7 bucks. most of my other dishes are pretty basic, usually a combination of meat (frozen chicken, sometimes pork or steak) with veggies (frozen stuff, or carrots, spinach, lettuce). takes an hour to prep, cook, eat, wash and relax for a few minutes. i'd value the cost of a meal for me at around $3 in pure groceries, and i think it also very relaxing. breakfast i do a lot of things with eggs, like quiche in a cup. it costs less than a dollar and takes like five minutes in the microwave. since i love cooking, here's the recipe: + Show Spoiler +2 eggs
a couple tablespoons of cream cheese
a slice of butter
ham
spinach
a little milk
salt and pepper
cheese
a few thumbnail sized pieces of bread
1. take everything and put in a mug and stir thoroughly
2. microwave for about a minute
3. remove and stir thoroughly again
4. microwave for a minute
5. take out and eat when fully cooked
lol. I just can't get over the microwave part... and there are two microwave parts :D probably gonna try when I am really drunk.
This reminds me of the microwave chocolate cake. http://www.instructables.com/id/Microwave-Chocolate-Cake/ Try it out it actually tastes pretty good.
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On December 09 2013 01:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +WASHINGTON -- Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said Sunday he opposes extending unemployment benefits for workers, arguing that it would be a "disservice" to jobless individuals.
"I do support unemployment benefits for the 26 weeks that they're paid for. If you extend it beyond that, you do a disservice to these workers," he said in an interview on "Fox News Sunday."
About 1.3 million long-term jobless Americans will lose federal benefits if Congress fails to reauthorize the Emergency Unemployment Compensation program, which expires at the end of December.
Without congressional action, the most time that people could get would be six months of state unemployment benefits.
"When you allow people to be on unemployment insurance for 99 weeks, you're causing them to become part of this perpetual unemployed group in our economy," Paul argued on "Fox News Sunday." Source
so, instead of supporting people who suffer from long time unemployment, he proposes to cut the benefits without some sort of compensation, so they become even more isolated and left alone from society and nation. great plan
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EPT
