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On January 21 2017 03:28 Euphorbus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:25 zlefin wrote:On January 21 2017 03:22 Euphorbus wrote:
Maybe that's why even I can't afford a Tesla, even if I had a drivers license.
Building stuff without cheap parts/labour from Mexico is just unfeasible.
Workers in the rust belt got fucked by globalization, true. But globalization made the economy more efficient, and bigger. The gains just went to a select number of people. While the economy got richer, we had no solution for all the obsolete workers who are mas unemployed.
And with robotization and a new AI/IT revolution, it will be worse.
What is Trump's answer? That he will magically bring all those jobs back. most of their problems were always due to automization rather than globalization. and many of the gains went to everyone by being able to buy stuff for less. If they had a job, their wages remained the same, corrected for inflation. If they lost it, they just it. Globalization stream-lined the economy greatly, causing big growth. But if you are jobless, you get no piece of the now bigger pie. Saying stuff in shops is cheaper isn't really that relevant. And with Trump's trade tariffs, stuff will suddenly not be cheap anymore.
I'm ont sure how this is a response to ym point, that most of the losses were never due to globalization anyways.
and that's why people need to move to new jobs. and need to be trained for new jobs, and be given assistance to move to new jobs.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I find it unfortunate, but utterly unsurprising, that Trump seems to be fully on board with the expensive boondoggle that is Tesla. Musk is an impressive salesman - he went from "we're saving the environment" to "we're made in the USA" to convince two successive administrations to back a highly speculative venture from a company that is bleeding money and continually begging for more. They continue to promise a future of "once X works out this is going to scale and it's all going to be beautiful" without thinking about how much money is being sunk on some unproven project that has raised billions without delivering profits.
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If you compare Trump with Obama, the only good thing about Trump is that he will move ahead with his 'mandate' and use his majority.
Obama failed his voters, abandoned his promises and mandate, trying to work with republicans who were only out there to sabotage the country and blame Obama for it.
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On January 21 2017 03:26 On_Slaught wrote:Lol we are already doing this. Wtf are they talking about? @xDaunt, there are no guarantees with Trump. That much is obvious.
Unlike Obama, Trump isn't an ideologue. He's a very practical person who actively looks for common ground to get things done. He will give to get, which is something that I pointed out during the campaign as something that republicans should be leery of. Watch what happens with healthcare.
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Good luck to all those in the rust belt:
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America failed majorly today by having Donald Trump. Some Americans don't know it yet though. 
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On January 21 2017 03:30 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:28 Euphorbus wrote:On January 21 2017 03:25 zlefin wrote:On January 21 2017 03:22 Euphorbus wrote:
Maybe that's why even I can't afford a Tesla, even if I had a drivers license.
Building stuff without cheap parts/labour from Mexico is just unfeasible.
Workers in the rust belt got fucked by globalization, true. But globalization made the economy more efficient, and bigger. The gains just went to a select number of people. While the economy got richer, we had no solution for all the obsolete workers who are mas unemployed.
And with robotization and a new AI/IT revolution, it will be worse.
What is Trump's answer? That he will magically bring all those jobs back. most of their problems were always due to automization rather than globalization. and many of the gains went to everyone by being able to buy stuff for less. If they had a job, their wages remained the same, corrected for inflation. If they lost it, they just it. Globalization stream-lined the economy greatly, causing big growth. But if you are jobless, you get no piece of the now bigger pie. Saying stuff in shops is cheaper isn't really that relevant. And with Trump's trade tariffs, stuff will suddenly not be cheap anymore. I'm ont sure how this is a response to ym point, that most of the losses were never due to globalization anyways. and that's why people need to move to new jobs. and need to be trained for new jobs, and be given assistance to move to new jobs.
You can't fire a bunch of 5th generation coal workers and expect them to reenter the job market as big data analysts. Forget the republicans. They are a joke. The democrats failed here big time. And so did all socialists in Europe. All left wing parties moved to the middle, embraced neoliberalism and the economic growth it offered, and were blind to the effect of globalization on their traditional working class voters. Now delusioned, these working class former left wing voters turn to extreme right wing nationalists. Mark Blyth calls it Global Trumpism, but it happened long before Trump.
Automation/robotizatioin wave is incoming. That will hit the traditional working class even harder. As a result, they will push protectionism/isolationism/nationalism, and it will be terrible for the economy, while not even offering the working class people anything.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 21 2017 03:34 Shield wrote:America failed majorly today by having Donald Trump. Some Americans don't know it yet though.
We had two bad choices and we as a country made a bad choice.
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On January 21 2017 03:12 oBlade wrote:
He's extreme but can't shake things up, he took over an entire political coalition and became POTUS in 18 months, can you explain what a shakeup would look like?
The next 4-8 years will show change the likes this country has NEVER seen. Trump isn't even a republican, so he can easily negotiate between both sides. Combine that with his insane work ethic and vision and he will be remembered as one of the most influential assuming he lives and makes it through his term(s).
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On January 21 2017 03:31 Euphorbus wrote:
If you compare Trump with Obama, the only good thing about Trump is that he will move ahead with his 'mandate' and use his majority.
Obama failed his voters, abandoned his promises and mandate, trying to work with republicans who were only out there to sabotage the country and blame Obama for it.
that doesn't sound right to me. I don't recall him abandoning his promises, he tried to get them done, sometimes succesffully, often not.
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On January 21 2017 03:35 biology]major wrote:
Combine that with his insane work ethic and vision and he will be remembered as one of the most influential assuming he lives and makes it through his term(s).
You mean him not even receiving the national security briefings.
I am sure Trump is very busy; making deals for the Trump business empire, while being president as a side job.
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On January 21 2017 03:35 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:34 Shield wrote:America failed majorly today by having Donald Trump. Some Americans don't know it yet though. We had two bad choices and we as a country made a bad choice.
True, but I'd argue Hillary Clinton would have been the lesser evil. At least in terms of foreign policy. I'm not interested in home policy because I don't live in America.
Trump dislikes NATO, UN and EU. That's enough not to like him already. Also, his possible friendship with Putin.
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On January 21 2017 03:31 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:26 On_Slaught wrote:Lol we are already doing this. Wtf are they talking about? @xDaunt, there are no guarantees with Trump. That much is obvious. Unlike Obama, Trump isn't an ideologue. He's a very practical person who actively looks for common ground to get things done. He will give to get, which is something that I pointed out during the campaign as something that republicans should be leery of. Watch what happens with healthcare.
Someone who doesn't believe in science and isn't an ideologue is an idiot. I was hoping Trump was an ideologue.
But I agree with you, he probably isn't. Obama wasn't either, he was as pragmatic as it gets.
Of course i'm sure that universal healthcare is "ideology" for you, despite the fact that it exists and functions in almost every advanced countries and is an obvious plus for anyone who considers that poor people dying unassisted or unable to get basic care is great.
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On January 21 2017 03:35 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:12 oBlade wrote:
He's extreme but can't shake things up, he took over an entire political coalition and became POTUS in 18 months, can you explain what a shakeup would look like? The next 4-8 years will show change the likes this country has NEVER seen. Trump isn't even a republican, so he can easily negotiate between both sides. Combine that with his insane work ethic and vision and he will be remembered as one of the most influential assuming he lives and makes it through his term(s).
the country has seen very big changes before, so I see no basis for the claim that trump will somehow usher in some major change, at least not a good one. especially since he doesn't know how to craft good policy.
nor do I see a basis for trump productively negotiating.
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On January 21 2017 03:37 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:31 Euphorbus wrote:
If you compare Trump with Obama, the only good thing about Trump is that he will move ahead with his 'mandate' and use his majority.
Obama failed his voters, abandoned his promises and mandate, trying to work with republicans who were only out there to sabotage the country and blame Obama for it. that doesn't sound right to me. I don't recall him abandoning his promises, he tried to get them done, sometimes succesffully, often not.
Look at Romney-care (aka Obamacare). Obama made compromise upon compromise. Now ACA is basically a republican health care plan. And the moment the republicans got a majority, they immediately started to repeal it.
Obama had a majority. He could just push through the actual Obamacare he promised, and which the average voter actually wants; ie universal nationalized health care.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 21 2017 03:38 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:35 LegalLord wrote:On January 21 2017 03:34 Shield wrote:America failed majorly today by having Donald Trump. Some Americans don't know it yet though. We had two bad choices and we as a country made a bad choice. True, but I'd argue Hillary Clinton would have been the lesser evil. At least in terms of foreign policy. I'm not interested in home policy because I don't live in America. Trump dislikes NATO, UN and EU. That's enough not to like him already.
Lesser evil or greater evil, they both suck. I voted for Clinton, but I really don't like her either. These are the two least liked presidential candidates in history for the US. When people hate both candidates, odd things happen.
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On January 21 2017 03:40 Euphorbus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:37 zlefin wrote:On January 21 2017 03:31 Euphorbus wrote:
If you compare Trump with Obama, the only good thing about Trump is that he will move ahead with his 'mandate' and use his majority.
Obama failed his voters, abandoned his promises and mandate, trying to work with republicans who were only out there to sabotage the country and blame Obama for it. that doesn't sound right to me. I don't recall him abandoning his promises, he tried to get them done, sometimes succesffully, often not. Look at Romney-care (aka Obamacare). Obama made compromise upon compromise. Now ACA is basically a republican health care plan. And the moment the republicans got a majority, they immediately started to repeal it. Obama had a majority. He could just push through the actual Obamacare he promised, and which the average voter actually wants; ie universal nationalized health care.
iirc he couldn't, there was opposition from conservative democrats, some of the compromises were made to appease them.
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On January 21 2017 03:40 Euphorbus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 03:37 zlefin wrote:On January 21 2017 03:31 Euphorbus wrote:
If you compare Trump with Obama, the only good thing about Trump is that he will move ahead with his 'mandate' and use his majority.
Obama failed his voters, abandoned his promises and mandate, trying to work with republicans who were only out there to sabotage the country and blame Obama for it. that doesn't sound right to me. I don't recall him abandoning his promises, he tried to get them done, sometimes succesffully, often not. Look at Romney-care (aka Obamacare). Obama made compromise upon compromise. Now ACA is basically a republican health care plan. And the moment the republicans got a majority, they immediately started to repeal it. Obama had a majority. He could just push through the actual Obamacare he promised, and which the average voter actually wants; ie universal nationalized health care.
You are forgetting the democrats that vowed to vote against single payer.
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Obama should just have let those democrats and republicans vote it down, then blame them, and wait till the next election.
That's how it works. That's why the republicans always win, despite public opinion being against them. Approval ratings of congress was super-low. Look now with medicine imports from Canada. Democrats who received donations from big pharma blocked it.
Another example is him not appointing a new supreme justice. That was absurdly weak as well.
Donors seem to favour weak democrats and hard as nail republicans. I wonder why.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vXychwL.png)
