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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 641

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2013 05:39 GMT
#12801
On November 22 2013 14:35 sam!zdat wrote:
fracking 100 percent safe, take it from our resident oil and gas lawyer

Now, now. You should know better than to presume that a lawyer would speak in such absolutes. That said, fracking's safety record has proven to be pretty damned good.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 22 2013 05:53 GMT
#12802
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2013 06:08 GMT
#12803
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
November 22 2013 06:15 GMT
#12804
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
November 22 2013 06:16 GMT
#12805
Business groups ask Massachusetts congressmen for help obtaining Obamacare waiver

Twenty-five business groups, including several in Western Massachusetts, have asked the state’s congressional delegation for a waiver from a provision of the Affordable Care Act that affects how health insurers calculate premiums.

“Without this waiver, many small employers in this state will see their health insurance premiums increase by as much as 57 percent,” the groups wrote in a letter released by the Associated Industries of Massachusetts. “These steep increases are simply unaffordable for small employers and risk our impressive 97 percent coverage rate in the event that employers discontinue providing health insurance to their employees.”

The issue centers on the number of “ratings factors” a health insurance company can use in calculating insurance premiums. Under Massachusetts’ 2007 health care reform law, the state allows insurance companies to use 11 considerations, or “rating factors,” when determining the cost of a health plan for an individual or small group. These include things like age, industry, participation in a wellness plan, the size of the group insured by the plan and the use of a group purchasing cooperative to buy insurance. The national health care reform law requires insurers to use just four factors when determining the cost of a plan: age, geography, tobacco use and family composition.

Business groups have been warning for months that this could lead insurance rates to spike for some small businesses – even though some businesses and individuals could also see their premiums decrease. Gov. Deval Patrick asked the Obama administration for a waiver from the provision, and was granted a three-year transition period. The Massachusetts Legislature then passed a bill requiring Patrick to return to the federal government and ask for a full waiver. U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius denied the request. ...

Link

Thanks Obama...
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
November 22 2013 06:17 GMT
#12806
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?


The Free Market working as intended, apparently.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
November 22 2013 06:20 GMT
#12807
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?

I don't see why you would call it that.
heliusx
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States2306 Posts
November 22 2013 06:22 GMT
#12808
Don't be silly guise. Who doesn't like a little methane, ethane and propane cocktail in their water supply?
dude bro.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2013 06:23 GMT
#12809
On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?

I don't see why you would call it that.

Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand.

I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 22 2013 06:46 GMT
#12810
there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Scorpion77
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
98 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-22 07:02:06
November 22 2013 07:01 GMT
#12811
we need fracking, unless some scientific breakthrough in nuclear fusion occurs (which has been Coming Soon for >50 years)
the Green extremists are mostly new age hippies, nimbyists, luddites and radical cryptomarxists in my experience
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
November 22 2013 07:05 GMT
#12812
Fusion might never happen, but LFTRs should.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
November 22 2013 07:05 GMT
#12813
Some other local news:

Massachusetts Senate overwhelmingly approves minimum wage increase to $11 an hour

BOSTON — The Massachusetts Senate voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to raise the state's minimum wage from $8 an hour to $11 an hour over three years, giving a boost to nearly 600,000 workers and putting the state on track for the highest such pay in the nation. ... Link

92 percent of Massachusetts teachers ranked as proficient in new evaluations

More than 90 percent of teachers are making the grade and less than 1 percent are unsatisfactory, according to the results of the first new-and-improved teacher evaluations used in 213 school districts across the state last school year. ...

The most controversial part of the evaluation – using student test data to determine if teachers and administrators are effective – is not expected to be used until 2015. ... Link
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 22 2013 07:35 GMT
#12814
On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?

I don't see why you would call it that.

Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand.

I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls.

Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
November 22 2013 07:54 GMT
#12815
On November 22 2013 16:35 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?

I don't see why you would call it that.

Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand.

I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls.

Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning.


Dude, what? What buzzwords? "Gains" and "losses"? Do you truly have no idea what his post meant?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 22 2013 09:54 GMT
#12816
On November 22 2013 16:54 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 16:35 Danglars wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:
On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:
On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote:
you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.

What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.

Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.


Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?

I don't see why you would call it that.

Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand.

I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls.

Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning.


Dude, what? What buzzwords? "Gains" and "losses"? Do you truly have no idea what his post meant?

I think you've got to be pretty deep into the drivel to not find it humorous.

Gas and Oil Companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking
>Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses

I guess having an excellent track record is even more reason for decrying such unparalleled success. They aren't throwing enough bones to the environmentalists to give legitimate criticism.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-22 15:15:05
November 22 2013 15:09 GMT
#12817
On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote:
there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know.

This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf.

So please, quit throwing this kind of crap that has no basis in fact.

EDIT: If anything, my analogy to golf probably doesn't work because the risk of getting a concussion in golf is comparatively too high.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-22 15:58:08
November 22 2013 15:55 GMT
#12818
On November 23 2013 00:09 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote:
there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know.

This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf.


that's a sophistry and you know it. you need to go read the black swan

"it hasn't happened yet so that's proof it can't happen." you're not that stupid xdaunt. by that logic our nuclear arsenal is completely safe also. but then you should go read the new schlosser book and see how true THAT is

have some humility in the face of induction and some appreciation of the vast consequences of improbable events. golf is not analogous because golf is not a black swan situation - fracking and nuclear bombs are.

or you can just go doubletalking yourself into claims you know are ridiculous to justify your own complicity with something dangerous. you wouldn't be the only one
shikata ga nai
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
November 22 2013 16:06 GMT
#12819
On November 22 2013 16:01 Scorpion77 wrote:
we need fracking, unless some scientific breakthrough in nuclear fusion occurs (which has been Coming Soon for >50 years)
the Green extremists are mostly new age hippies, nimbyists, luddites and radical cryptomarxists in my experience


you proved your point by attacking a group of people, holy shit what a great argument!
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18132 Posts
November 22 2013 16:12 GMT
#12820
On November 23 2013 00:09 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote:
there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know.

This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf.

So please, quit throwing this kind of crap that has no basis in fact.

EDIT: If anything, my analogy to golf probably doesn't work because the risk of getting a concussion in golf is comparatively too high.

Fracking hasn't been proven safe. At least, the scientific american doesn't think so. SciAm is pretty apolitical, and tends to just report the scientific side of things. They are fairly pro-technology, so it's also not some environmentalist magazine that fear mongers all new technology (usually quite the contrary, in fact).

They are rather cautious in the reports on fracking:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-fracking-be-done-without-impacting-water
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-truth-about-fracking

The latter is behind their paywall, but the issue should be available in your local library.
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