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On November 22 2013 14:35 sam!zdat wrote: fracking 100 percent safe, take it from our resident oil and gas lawyer Now, now. You should know better than to presume that a lawyer would speak in such absolutes. That said, fracking's safety record has proven to be pretty damned good.
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you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so.
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On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water.
Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.
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On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking.
Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?
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Business groups ask Massachusetts congressmen for help obtaining Obamacare waiver
Twenty-five business groups, including several in Western Massachusetts, have asked the state’s congressional delegation for a waiver from a provision of the Affordable Care Act that affects how health insurers calculate premiums.
“Without this waiver, many small employers in this state will see their health insurance premiums increase by as much as 57 percent,” the groups wrote in a letter released by the Associated Industries of Massachusetts. “These steep increases are simply unaffordable for small employers and risk our impressive 97 percent coverage rate in the event that employers discontinue providing health insurance to their employees.”
The issue centers on the number of “ratings factors” a health insurance company can use in calculating insurance premiums. Under Massachusetts’ 2007 health care reform law, the state allows insurance companies to use 11 considerations, or “rating factors,” when determining the cost of a health plan for an individual or small group. These include things like age, industry, participation in a wellness plan, the size of the group insured by the plan and the use of a group purchasing cooperative to buy insurance. The national health care reform law requires insurers to use just four factors when determining the cost of a plan: age, geography, tobacco use and family composition.
Business groups have been warning for months that this could lead insurance rates to spike for some small businesses – even though some businesses and individuals could also see their premiums decrease. Gov. Deval Patrick asked the Obama administration for a waiver from the provision, and was granted a three-year transition period. The Massachusetts Legislature then passed a bill requiring Patrick to return to the federal government and ask for a full waiver. U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius denied the request. ... Link
Thanks Obama...
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On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses?
The Free Market working as intended, apparently.
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On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses? I don't see why you would call it that.
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Don't be silly guise. Who doesn't like a little methane, ethane and propane cocktail in their water supply?
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On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses? I don't see why you would call it that. Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand.
I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls.
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there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know.
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we need fracking, unless some scientific breakthrough in nuclear fusion occurs (which has been Coming Soon for >50 years) the Green extremists are mostly new age hippies, nimbyists, luddites and radical cryptomarxists in my experience
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Fusion might never happen, but LFTRs should.
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Some other local news:
Massachusetts Senate overwhelmingly approves minimum wage increase to $11 an hour BOSTON — The Massachusetts Senate voted overwhelmingly Tuesday to raise the state's minimum wage from $8 an hour to $11 an hour over three years, giving a boost to nearly 600,000 workers and putting the state on track for the highest such pay in the nation. ... Link
92 percent of Massachusetts teachers ranked as proficient in new evaluations More than 90 percent of teachers are making the grade and less than 1 percent are unsatisfactory, according to the results of the first new-and-improved teacher evaluations used in 213 school districts across the state last school year. ... The most controversial part of the evaluation – using student test data to determine if teachers and administrators are effective – is not expected to be used until 2015. ... Link
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On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses? I don't see why you would call it that. Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand. I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls. Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning.
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On November 22 2013 16:35 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses? I don't see why you would call it that. Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand. I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls. Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning.
Dude, what? What buzzwords? "Gains" and "losses"? Do you truly have no idea what his post meant?
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On November 22 2013 16:54 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 16:35 Danglars wrote:On November 22 2013 15:23 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 15:20 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On November 22 2013 15:15 Livelovedie wrote:On November 22 2013 15:08 xDaunt wrote:On November 22 2013 14:53 zlefin wrote: you overstate the case xdaunt, not that more is expected of you. The safety of fracking done properly, and in proper places, seems fine; but there are too many places where they shouldn't be doing it and are doing so. What exactly am I overstating? The incidence of mishap with fracking is incredibly low. Not that you'd know it looking at looking at eco-hippy websites, but there still hasn't been one case where it's been proven that fracking has contaminated ground water. Shit happens in every industry. The fact remains that oil and gas companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking. Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses? I don't see why you would call it that. Because it's hip to say shit that you don't understand. I've found that I am a much happier poster in this thread when I ignore the one-liner trolls. Gotta include enough buzzwords to give all your friends the idea that they know what it is and agree with you, and all your enemies no idea of what you're actually meaning. Dude, what? What buzzwords? "Gains" and "losses"? Do you truly have no idea what his post meant? I think you've got to be pretty deep into the drivel to not find it humorous.
Gas and Oil Companies have done a pretty good job when it comes to fracking >Don't they call this privatizing the gains, socializing the losses
I guess having an excellent track record is even more reason for decrying such unparalleled success. They aren't throwing enough bones to the environmentalists to give legitimate criticism.
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On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote: there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know. This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf.
So please, quit throwing this kind of crap that has no basis in fact.
EDIT: If anything, my analogy to golf probably doesn't work because the risk of getting a concussion in golf is comparatively too high.
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On November 23 2013 00:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote: there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know. This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf.
that's a sophistry and you know it. you need to go read the black swan
"it hasn't happened yet so that's proof it can't happen." you're not that stupid xdaunt. by that logic our nuclear arsenal is completely safe also. but then you should go read the new schlosser book and see how true THAT is
have some humility in the face of induction and some appreciation of the vast consequences of improbable events. golf is not analogous because golf is not a black swan situation - fracking and nuclear bombs are.
or you can just go doubletalking yourself into claims you know are ridiculous to justify your own complicity with something dangerous. you wouldn't be the only one
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On November 22 2013 16:01 Scorpion77 wrote: we need fracking, unless some scientific breakthrough in nuclear fusion occurs (which has been Coming Soon for >50 years) the Green extremists are mostly new age hippies, nimbyists, luddites and radical cryptomarxists in my experience
you proved your point by attacking a group of people, holy shit what a great argument!
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On November 23 2013 00:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 15:46 zlefin wrote: there's a large difference between not proven unsafe and proven safe, as you well know. This is bullshit insofar as it's applied to fracking. Fracking has been proven safe. There have been hundreds of thousands wells drilled without contaminating the water table. I'll acknowledge that there's a theoretical risk of problems, just as there's a theoretical risk of getting a concussion from playing golf. So please, quit throwing this kind of crap that has no basis in fact. EDIT: If anything, my analogy to golf probably doesn't work because the risk of getting a concussion in golf is comparatively too high. Fracking hasn't been proven safe. At least, the scientific american doesn't think so. SciAm is pretty apolitical, and tends to just report the scientific side of things. They are fairly pro-technology, so it's also not some environmentalist magazine that fear mongers all new technology (usually quite the contrary, in fact).
They are rather cautious in the reports on fracking:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-fracking-be-done-without-impacting-water http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-truth-about-fracking
The latter is behind their paywall, but the issue should be available in your local library.
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