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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 02 2016 18:11 GMT
#117441
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

It's not rare, that's for sure.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 02 2016 18:13 GMT
#117442
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

I have a couple friends that flat out refuse to vote anything but Bernie.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
November 02 2016 18:16 GMT
#117443
On November 03 2016 03:13 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

I have a couple friends that flat out refuse to vote anything but Bernie.


I have an acquaintance like that too. I honestly don't get those kinds of people. To me they just seem like the left version of trumpkins, all ideology and no brains or realism. What's worse is many of the bernie or bust people are the ones who would be hurt most by a trump presidency.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 02 2016 18:16 GMT
#117444
They should actually be ashamed of themselves for not overcoming their sour feelings regarding things other than a Trump presidency.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 02 2016 18:18 GMT
#117445
On November 03 2016 03:11 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

It's not rare, that's for sure.

Oh, I just think it will be rare in florida. Pretty sure it'll be like 5% or something nationwide though.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 18:20:16
November 02 2016 18:18 GMT
#117446
that's ideologues for ya. a common problem.
the one thing I haven't figured out is how it works when you're an ideologue for pragmatism.

and of course a lot of people don't have much sense in general. though i'm sure that's more a relative thing than an absolute thing.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 18:27:54
November 02 2016 18:23 GMT
#117447
On November 03 2016 03:16 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:13 Plansix wrote:
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

I have a couple friends that flat out refuse to vote anything but Bernie.


I have an acquaintance like that too. I honestly don't get those kinds of people. To me they just seem like the left version of trumpkins, all ideology and no brains or realism. What's worse is many of the bernie or bust people are the ones who would be hurt most by a trump presidency.

I try not to get into discussions with them about it. They get really upset about people "shaming them" into voting for Hillary. Which is weird because they keep posting shit on facebook and other places declaring they won't vote for Hillary. Its like they don't understand that putting stuff on facebook makes it end up in their friend's feeds. I'm sort of convinced they don't understand that congress exists. Or the GOP. They seem to think all fights are with the centrist democrats.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 02 2016 18:23 GMT
#117448
On November 03 2016 03:18 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:11 LegalLord wrote:
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

It's not rare, that's for sure.

Oh, I just think it will be rare in florida. Pretty sure it'll be like 5% or something nationwide though.

That could be a truly brutal problem if it's five percent spread pretty uniformly across the population. If that "collapsed possibilities" poll where 90% of sandernistas vote for Hillary over Trump if forced is true, then that's 4.5 percent of her potential voters that tell her to go fuck herself, which could easily cost her the election.

(More to come when I have a chance to reply in depth to ChristianS etc).
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 02 2016 18:24 GMT
#117449
I wish presidential candidates would focus less on their legislative platforms and more on their executive platforms.
i.e. they keep talking about what policies they want, even though most of that stuff is more congress than president; and they don't talk so much about the stuff that's wholly within the purview of the presidency.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 02 2016 18:30 GMT
#117450
On November 03 2016 03:24 zlefin wrote:
I wish presidential candidates would focus less on their legislative platforms and more on their executive platforms.
i.e. they keep talking about what policies they want, even though most of that stuff is more congress than president; and they don't talk so much about the stuff that's wholly within the purview of the presidency.

Most of the population doesn't know what is and isn't within the purview of the presidency. So talking about things they don't really have control over works because most of the voters don't know that.
Moderator
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 02 2016 18:31 GMT
#117451
On November 03 2016 03:24 zlefin wrote:
I wish presidential candidates would focus less on their legislative platforms and more on their executive platforms.
i.e. they keep talking about what policies they want, even though most of that stuff is more congress than president; and they don't talk so much about the stuff that's wholly within the purview of the presidency.

Executive Obama isn't very popular with the mainstream, so I see it as perfectly reasonable for them to be quite mum about it. You can't just talk about all the things you're going to do yourself unless you want to appear imperial.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19395 Posts
November 02 2016 18:31 GMT
#117452
On November 03 2016 03:24 zlefin wrote:
I wish presidential candidates would focus less on their legislative platforms and more on their executive platforms.
i.e. they keep talking about what policies they want, even though most of that stuff is more congress than president; and they don't talk so much about the stuff that's wholly within the purview of the presidency.

This is why I'm voting for Austin Peterson in 4 years from now. The guy fucking killed it in the Libertarian debate. If he was asked a question that was out of the presidents power, he would cite the line in the constitution that says the decision must be made by another branch. What a badass.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 02 2016 18:32 GMT
#117453
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/suppress-black-vote-trump-campaign-230616

Neo-Nazi leader Andrew Anglin plans to muster thousands of poll watchers across all 50 states. His partners at the alt-right website “the Right Stuff” are touting plans to set up hidden cameras at polling places in Philadelphia and hand out liquor and marijuana in the city’s “ghetto” on Election Day to induce residents to stay home. The National Socialist Movement, various factions of the Ku Klux Klan and the white nationalist American Freedom Party all are deploying members to watch polls, either “informally” or, they say, through the Trump campaign.

The Oath Keepers, a group of former law enforcement and military members that often shows up in public heavily armed, is advising members to go undercover and conduct “intelligence-gathering” at polling places, and Donald Trump ally Roger Stone is organizing his own exit polling, aiming to monitor thousands of precincts across the country.
Story Continued Below

Energized by Trump’s candidacy and alarmed by his warnings of a “rigged election,” white nationalist, alt-right and militia movement groups are planning to come out in full force on Tuesday, creating the potential for conflict at the close of an already turbulent campaign season.
“The possibility of violence on or around Election Day is very real,” said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center. “Donald Trump has been telling his supporters for weeks and weeks and weeks now that they are about to have the election stolen from them by evil forces on behalf of the elites.”

It is difficult to know at what scale these plans will materialize, because Anglin and his fringe-right ilk are serial exaggerators, according to Potok. And rather than successfully uncover widespread voter fraud — for which there is a lack of compelling evidence — or successfully suppress minority turnout, Potok said the efforts are most likely to backfire.

“If on the morning of Election Day it turns out that we have white supremacists standing around looking threatening at polling places, I think it would arouse anger,” he said. “People would vote just to prove they’re not being intimidated by these radical racists.”

Despite Trump’s claims that American democracy is compromised by massive voter fraud, so far in this election only one person — a Trump supporter in Iowa who attempted to vote twice — has been arrested for it. That has not stopped fringe groups already inclined to believe that minorities are stealing the election from heeding Trump’s call to monitor voting in “certain areas.”

In an email, Anglin, the editor of the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer website, said he had already led a “big voter registration drive” and that he was “sending an army of Alt-Right nationalists to watch the polls.” Anglin said he was working in conjunction with the alt-right website TheRightStuff.Biz.

A representative of that site wrote in an email: “We are organizing poll watchers in urban areas to cut down on the most traditional type of voter fraud. We also will have stationary cameras hidden at polling locations in Philadelphia, to monitor anyone that comes in to vote and make sure that the same people are not voting at multiple locations. If we see people voting in multiple locations the footage will be submitted to the [Federal Election Commission] as well as put out on social media to undermine the legitimacy of [Hillary] Clinton should she steal the election.”

The representative, who did not provide his name, went on to explain, "Many polling locations are in schools, and black schools are so disorderly that pretty much any official-looking white person with a clipboard can gain access to them ahead of time and set up a hidden camera. You don't really ever even have to speak with an adult. Simply walk in like you belong there and no one even asks you why you are there. So we usually go in teams of two, one person driving and one person dressed as a blue collar worker with a clipboard, and we set up a hidden camera in the school cafeteria. Go during lunchtime and the teachers are all so busy trying to contain the kids that no one says anything. We already have a few set up."

The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

A senior Trump adviser told Bloomberg Businessweek last month that the campaign is working on a three-pronged voter suppression strategy that includes an effort to depress black turnout. Though other Trump advisers later pushed back on the report, Anglin’s partners say they are hoping to put Trump over the top by doing just that.

“We also have some teams going in to the ghettos in Philly with 40s and weed to give out to the local residents, which we think will lead to more of them staying home. We have had success with this in the past,” wrote the representative of TheRightStuff.biz, who said four teams of two employed this tactic in Detroit during the Democratic primary in an effort to help Bernie Sanders. “40s” are 40-ounce bottles of malt liquor. POLITICO could not independently verify his claims.

It remains an open question whether the neo-Nazis’ plans materialize, and to what extent.


Here is shit we didn't hear about in the last two elections, but is suddenly a thing this time around. Excited.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 02 2016 18:34 GMT
#117454
On November 03 2016 03:31 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:24 zlefin wrote:
I wish presidential candidates would focus less on their legislative platforms and more on their executive platforms.
i.e. they keep talking about what policies they want, even though most of that stuff is more congress than president; and they don't talk so much about the stuff that's wholly within the purview of the presidency.

Executive Obama isn't very popular with the mainstream, so I see it as perfectly reasonable for them to be quite mum about it. You can't just talk about all the things you're going to do yourself unless you want to appear imperial.

i don't think i'ts imperial if you focus only on the things that are 100% within the mandate of the presidency.
and I apply this to all parties in general, not just the obama issues.

One of my goals for when I'm president is to try to lower the power of the presidency, but I doubt it'll work out. especially the being president part
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 02 2016 18:34 GMT
#117455
The president is also running as the voice of the party they are running for. They talk about what they and the party plan to do. Someone can cite that the president doesn’t create laws, but they do approve laws. So it seems silly for them to not talk about the laws they and their party would like to see passed.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 18:36:19
November 02 2016 18:35 GMT
#117456
prez is also party leader. can better connect with downballot if u talk broad policy agenda
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7684 Posts
November 02 2016 18:39 GMT
#117457
On November 03 2016 03:16 hunts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:13 Plansix wrote:
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

I have a couple friends that flat out refuse to vote anything but Bernie.


I have an acquaintance like that too. I honestly don't get those kinds of people. To me they just seem like the left version of trumpkins, all ideology and no brains or realism. What's worse is many of the bernie or bust people are the ones who would be hurt most by a trump presidency.



the word you were looking for is idealism, not ideology. they do not mean the same thing. "realism" is a kind of ideology
It is terrible to die of thirst at sea. Must you so salt your truth that it will no longer even slake thirst?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 18:43:41
November 02 2016 18:41 GMT
#117458


And we sort of all knew this was coming. That case was filed months ago. There was a time when having a pending child rape case that wasn't instantly dismissed as fake would have doomed any candidate.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-02 18:45:09
November 02 2016 18:42 GMT
#117459
On November 03 2016 03:39 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2016 03:16 hunts wrote:
On November 03 2016 03:13 Plansix wrote:
On November 03 2016 03:09 Nevuk wrote:
Apparently my dad is Bernie or bust. He lives in Florida and wrote it in, said it made him feel better. I kind of doubt that'll be widespread though, my family tends to be uh, odd.

I have a couple friends that flat out refuse to vote anything but Bernie.


I have an acquaintance like that too. I honestly don't get those kinds of people. To me they just seem like the left version of trumpkins, all ideology and no brains or realism. What's worse is many of the bernie or bust people are the ones who would be hurt most by a trump presidency.



the word you were looking for is idealism, not ideology. they do not mean the same thing. "realism" is a kind of ideology


Idealism is trying to achieve Bernie's goals further down the line, this is getting Trump elected. Bernie would tell him the same. In fact voting to 'make you feel good' is actually just narcissism
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 02 2016 18:43 GMT
#117460
realism has some ideology involved in terms of interpreting the real facts(tm). the claim that it is possible to distinguish between reals and ideology isnt ideology.

but lets just say the idea that realism is nessarily ideological is itself an ideology
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Prev 1 5871 5872 5873 5874 5875 10093 Next
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