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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20255 Posts
September 19 2016 19:15 GMT
#100781
I don't really care about the polls atm. They always seem to be virtually tied around this time of year. The last 2 election polls were in a similar state around this time of year irrc.
Never Knows Best.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14215 Posts
September 19 2016 19:15 GMT
#100782
And lets not even talk about the rumors about FDR's health during the latter stages in his presidency.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
September 19 2016 19:16 GMT
#100783
On September 20 2016 04:13 farvacola wrote:
Given that Reagan was almost certainly suffering from the early stages of alzheimers throughout his second term, I guess Hillary's health isn't such a big deal.


Was it during the election?

If not, then Hillary is still not okay because during presidency basically is about 100 times tougher than campaigning.

Campaigning is laying out the blueprint.

Ruling is doing the execution.

Saying what you are going to do is easy, but ACTUALLY completing tasks is the hard part.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States6612 Posts
September 19 2016 19:16 GMT
#100784
On September 20 2016 04:05 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


"Deeply Stupid"

Show nested quote +
Donald John Trump is an American businessman, television personality, author, politician, and the Republican Party nominee for President of the United States in the 2016 election

It's a similar thing as with Bush. It's fulfilling for people to say they're personally superior to the leading Republican.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
September 19 2016 19:16 GMT
#100785
On September 20 2016 04:13 farvacola wrote:
Given that Reagan was almost certainly suffering from the early stages of alzheimers throughout his second term, I guess Hillary's health isn't such a big deal.


I'm fighting to see Trump in the white house for the reasons I've outlined here numerous times.

You're right, it's probably not a big deal, but is it worth attacking because it will turn some people off? Yes.

It's the same thing with Trump's tax returns, sure, everyone might have done it since 1976, but I don't see why he has to, and I don't think it's nearly a big of a deal as the Democrats try to make it to be. If you can't vote for someone because they didn't release their tax returns, then fine, don't... I don't mind in Trump's case though.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 19 2016 19:17 GMT
#100786
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.

Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election.

He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:23:02
September 19 2016 19:18 GMT
#100787
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.


He is incredibly uninformed. He didn't even know the parties involved in the TPP in the debates, he doesn't know the current number of ships/planes/men in our military (and has as a result stated a plan to make it bigger that would in reality shrink it), he doesn't know how the national debt works, he doesn't know the current process for vetting immigrants OR refugees, he doesn't know how the formal delegate nomination process works, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he doesn't know how his own company's maternity leave/childcare works, and he also doesn't know the difference between a poll aggregater and a pollster.

If you think Donald Trump is informed, you're arguing from another reality. He is the poster child for saying whatever he wants and having his supporters bend over backwards to interpret it as correct while his detractors bend over backwards to interpret it as wrong but evil (when really, he's just uninformed and incompetent, which more than disqualifies him in my mind).

For fuck's sake, he STILL maintains that he saw video of people celebrating 9/11 in the U.S. That's like anti-informed.

On September 20 2016 03:52 Incognoto wrote:
Aren't we slowly but surely running out of reasons to hate on Trump though?


No. Just because they happened months ago doesn't make them any less of reasons to hate him.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
September 19 2016 19:18 GMT
#100788
On September 20 2016 04:15 Slaughter wrote:
I don't really care about the polls atm. They always seem to be virtually tied around this time of year. The last 2 election polls were in a similar state around this time of year irrc.

That's the funny thing; polling is increasingly flawed and seen as a tool of the media that is utilized in pursuit of achieving media consumption. That is, unless it agrees with your candidate at a specific moment in time.

lol
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 19 2016 19:20 GMT
#100789
On September 20 2016 04:18 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.


He is incredibly uninformed. He didn't even know the parties involved in the TPP in the debates, he doesn't know the current number of ships/planes/men in our military (and has as a result stated a plan to make it bigger that would in reality shrink it), he doesn't know how the national debt works, he doesn't know the current process for vetting immigrants OR refugees, he doesn't know how the formal delegate nomination process works, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he doesn't know how his own company's maternity leave/childcare works, and he also doesn't know the difference between a poll aggregater and a pollster.

If you think Donald Trump is informed, you're arguing from another reality.

The fact that he claimed he could “renegotiate” the terms of the national debt was hilarious. Like its some bankruptcy filing and you can just get better terms.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
September 19 2016 19:23 GMT
#100790
On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.

Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election.

He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking.


He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
September 19 2016 19:25 GMT
#100791
On September 20 2016 04:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:18 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.


He is incredibly uninformed. He didn't even know the parties involved in the TPP in the debates, he doesn't know the current number of ships/planes/men in our military (and has as a result stated a plan to make it bigger that would in reality shrink it), he doesn't know how the national debt works, he doesn't know the current process for vetting immigrants OR refugees, he doesn't know how the formal delegate nomination process works, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he doesn't know how his own company's maternity leave/childcare works, and he also doesn't know the difference between a poll aggregater and a pollster.

If you think Donald Trump is informed, you're arguing from another reality.

The fact that he claimed he could “renegotiate” the terms of the national debt was hilarious. Like its some bankruptcy filing and you can just get better terms.


Obama having generated 10 trillion USD in debt during his 8 years doesn't help.

The fact that US tax revenue is 3.3 trillion USD per year, and interest on debt will be 250 billion next year... If we're being realistic, it won't be paid off within 50 years.

And if interest rates go up a bit, have fun USA, so yeah, some change is likely to happen.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:28:45
September 19 2016 19:25 GMT
#100792
On September 20 2016 04:20 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:18 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.


He is incredibly uninformed. He didn't even know the parties involved in the TPP in the debates, he doesn't know the current number of ships/planes/men in our military (and has as a result stated a plan to make it bigger that would in reality shrink it), he doesn't know how the national debt works, he doesn't know the current process for vetting immigrants OR refugees, he doesn't know how the formal delegate nomination process works, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he doesn't know how his own company's maternity leave/childcare works, and he also doesn't know the difference between a poll aggregater and a pollster.

If you think Donald Drumpf is informed, you're arguing from another reality.

The fact that he claimed he could “renegotiate” the terms of the national debt was hilarious. Like its some bankruptcy filing and you can just get better terms.


Its ok, he will just tell China that they cheated the US into all the debt they have with them and will renegotiate it so thats its fairer. Make no mistake, America will win, also the Yuan will be trading 1 to 1 with the USD by the time he is done with the Chinese. He loves them though.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18869 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:25:58
September 19 2016 19:25 GMT
#100793
In September of last year, Donald Trump released his first tax plan, but now he has made another go of it. Over the last couple of months, he has released an overhaul that changes rates and includes newly announced child care deductions. The revised plan would still cost the government trillions in revenues, according to a new analysis, though not as much as his last plan.

The right-leaning Tax Foundation released an analysis Monday that said Trump's campaign would shrink federal revenues by as much as $5.9 trillion over 10 years. His former plan would have done so by up to $12.3 trillion.

The new plan adopts individual tax brackets from the House Republicans' tax plan, creating three brackets of 12, 25, and 33 percent (down from the current seven brackets). It would also lower the corporate tax rate to 15 percent, eliminate the estate tax, and increase the standard deduction, among other things. Altogether, over 10 years, it would reduce federal revenue by around $4.4 to $5.9 trillion.

One Huge Question, Still Unanswered

That $1.5-trillion gap between $4.4 and $5.9 trillion exists because one big aspect of the Trump tax plan has been unclear: how to tax "pass-through" businesses. In these firms, the owners pay taxes on earnings at individual income tax rates.

In his old plan, Trump had said pass-through businesses would be taxed at 15 percent, the same as the corporate tax rate he's proposing. However, since Trump released the new version of this plan, his campaign has given two different explanations about how that income would be taxed: one saying it would be 15 percent, the other saying it would be at individual rates, as the New York Times' Binyamin Appelbaum has reported.

That makes a huge difference when it comes to revenue. Given the uncertainty, Tax Foundation created two estimates of what the plan could do. If pass-through income is taxed at the lower rate, revenue would shrink by $5.9 trillion over 10 years on a static basis (that is, not including the effects of economic growth). If it were taxed at higher, individual income tax rates, the revenue cut would be nearly $4.4 trillion.

(Monday, Politico reported a new development: "the Trump camp says that pass-throughs could claim that 15 percent rate, but would also have to join corporations in taking on a second layer of tax — a 20 percent hit — when owners take money out of the business.")

And economic growth wouldn't close those holes. Even taking economic growth into effect, in what are known as dynamic estimates, the Foundation estimates that the plan would reduce revenues by $2.6 trillion to $3.9 trillion. Dynamic estimates take more factors into account than static estimates, but economists don't all agree on the growth effects of different tax changes.

A Less-Progressive Code, Aiming For Lofty Goals

The plan would also make the tax code less progressive. While it would increase incomes across the income spectrum, it would increase them by much more for the richest Americans. The bottom four quintiles of income groups would see their incomes go up by 0.8 to 1.9 percent.

But people between the 80th and 100th percentiles would see higher after-tax incomes by 4.4 to 6.5 percent (on a static basis, again depending on how that pass-through rate ends up). In that top 1 percent, the income growth is particularly high — 10.2 to 16 percent.

Then there's economic growth, which wouldn't be nearly as impressive under this plan as Trump would like. He said last week that he thinks he could get the economy to grow by 3.5 percent or 4 percent per year.

The Tax Foundation tells NPR that it estimates Trump's plan would add around 0.5 percentage points onto economic growth each year.

Currently, members of the Federal Reserve's Open Market Committee say they expect annual GDP growth rates of 2 percent in the long run. An extra half point each year would still be far from Trump's goals.


Analysis: Trump Tax Plan Would Cost Trillions, Boost Incomes For The Rich
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:31:06
September 19 2016 19:26 GMT
#100794
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.

The problem isn't whether or not Mexico will pay for the wall. The problem is that suggesting that a new wall will actually significantly impact illegal immigration in a productive way deeply misunderstands how illegal immigrants end up becoming illegal immigrants, and what effects putting up a wall would actually have.

The idea that illegal immigrants somehow just waltz over the border into Texas in large numbers is complete folly and exactly why people call that plan uninformed. It's why he had to shift his anti-immigration rhetoric toward deportation rather than staying on the idea of the wall--because the wall is a completely stupid idea regardless of who pays for it.
Moderator
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:28:55
September 19 2016 19:27 GMT
#100795
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.

Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election.

He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking.


He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.


While I don't agree with you, since Mexico is going to pay for the wall, but simply through Tariffs or some other trade means, not a hey, give us $1 billion dollars a year for the next while so we can build a wall...

Plansix does take most things at absurdly face value, and hence it can be difficult to discuss anything politics with him.

On September 20 2016 04:26 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.

The problem isn't whether or not Mexico will pay for the wall. The problem is that suggesting that a new wall will actually significantly impact illegal immigration in a productive way deeply misunderstands how illegal immigrants end up becoming illegal immigrants, and what effects putting up a wall would actually have.


The wall is synonymous with increased border security. Anyone who imagines any kind of wall being erected and everything else staying the same is wrong. Trump and his advisors aren't/won't be stupid enough to spend billions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 19 2016 19:29 GMT
#100796
On September 20 2016 04:25 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:20 Plansix wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:18 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.


He is incredibly uninformed. He didn't even know the parties involved in the TPP in the debates, he doesn't know the current number of ships/planes/men in our military (and has as a result stated a plan to make it bigger that would in reality shrink it), he doesn't know how the national debt works, he doesn't know the current process for vetting immigrants OR refugees, he doesn't know how the formal delegate nomination process works, he doesn't know what Obamacare is, he doesn't know how his own company's maternity leave/childcare works, and he also doesn't know the difference between a poll aggregater and a pollster.

If you think Donald Trump is informed, you're arguing from another reality.

The fact that he claimed he could “renegotiate” the terms of the national debt was hilarious. Like its some bankruptcy filing and you can just get better terms.


Obama having generated 10 trillion USD in debt during his 8 years doesn't help.

The fact that US tax revenue is 3.3 trillion USD per year, and interest on debt will be 250 billion next year... If we're being realistic, it won't be paid off within 50 years.

And if interest rates go up a bit, have fun USA, so yeah, some change is likely to happen.

To bad Trump’s master plan is to increase spending, magically make 4% growth and cut taxes to the richest people in the nation. So, in a lot of ways, he is worse than Obama for the debt.

Which we can’t renegotiate and we can’t default on, both things Trump has suggested the US should do.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-19 19:37:45
September 19 2016 19:31 GMT
#100797
On September 20 2016 04:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:
The wall is synonymous with increased border security. Anyone who imagines any kind of wall being erected and everything else staying the same is wrong. Trump and his advisors aren't/won't be stupid enough to spend billions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.

I have faith in neither Trump nor Hillary to not spend billions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.
Moderator
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
September 19 2016 19:32 GMT
#100798
On September 20 2016 04:26 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.

The problem isn't whether or not Mexico will pay for the wall. The problem is that suggesting that a new wall will actually significantly impact illegal immigration in a productive way deeply misunderstands how illegal immigrants end up becoming illegal immigrants, and what effects putting up a wall would actually have.


I don't think Trump cares about other countries other than USA.

So this election will decide upon people's priorities.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
September 19 2016 19:32 GMT
#100799
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.

Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election.

He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking.


He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.


Now when Mexico partially pays for the wall it's not out of left field. He approaches everything from the perspective of a business deal, come at it from the strongest position possible(even if it seems absolutely insane) and negotiate from there. If terms aren't satisfactory then leave.


Question.?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 19 2016 19:32 GMT
#100800
On September 20 2016 04:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:17 Plansix wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:09 RealityIsKing wrote:
On September 20 2016 03:58 Plansix wrote:
The reasons I dislike him are unchanged. He is still uninformed, deeply stupid and a man-baby that is unfit for office. Even if I ignore all the populist non-sense, he is still a garbage candidate due to his lack of knowledge and complete distain for people with knowledge.


I don't think he is uninformed though.

Yes, he is tough on immigration but that's due to all those reported incidence from Europe and of course 911.

Yes, he is right that illegal immigrants needs to turn up and sign up for legal residency and whoever that isn't qualified needs to be kicked out.

That's actually really anti corporate and would grant the one that deserves it minimum wage and other social benefit.

He is doing a lot of goods for the people.

The only people that hates on him are masochist, they know that there are some undeserved illegals here and of course they do exist.

Yeah, I disagree on every level. He shows a basic lack of understanding on most international issues. His plan to make Mexico pay for the wall was comical at best, tragically uninformed at worst. His talk about dealing with ISIS can be described as that of a middle school play ground bully or child attempting to sound tough. His distain for the press, political process and judicial system have been evident throughout this election.

He is the very definition of the person I never want to see elected, a self aggrandizing blow hard who hates people who better informed than him. And he surrounds himself with yes-men and people who are willing to ride his coat tails for their own personal gain. I got through George W Bush. I’m not doing it again, especially with someone even dumber than Bush. And somehow worse at public speaking.


He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.


While I don't agree with you, since Mexico is going to pay for the wall, but simply through Tariffs or some other trade means, not a hey, give us $1 billion dollars a year for the next while so we can build a wall...

Plansix does take most things at absurdly face value, and hence it can be difficult to discuss anything politics with him.

Show nested quote +
On September 20 2016 04:26 TheYango wrote:
On September 20 2016 04:23 RealityIsKing wrote:
He is not ACTUALLY thinking that Mexico will pay for the wall? Are you THIS naive for real? I don't believe that you are.

Its an intimidating tactics, his point is that Mexico is getting the better deal out of the US-Mexico relationship.

So he wants to set new tone with Mexico and the quickest way to get Mexico's attention is to go an outrageous deal then to negotiate afterward.

You are definitely not thinking out of the box here.

The problem isn't whether or not Mexico will pay for the wall. The problem is that suggesting that a new wall will actually significantly impact illegal immigration in a productive way deeply misunderstands how illegal immigrants end up becoming illegal immigrants, and what effects putting up a wall would actually have.


The wall is synonymous with increased border security. Anyone who imagines any kind of wall being erected and everything else staying the same is wrong. Trump and his advisors aren't/won't be stupid enough to spend billions of dollars for no reason whatsoever.

So that part of his plan he is selling is flawed, but we should trust that the rest of it is fine because reasons.

Also, this is the guy who lied to people attending his university, claiming the classes would help them make more money or provide education. But we should believe this guy, with a decades long history of defrauding to people to make a quick buck.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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