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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
August 21 2016 20:27 GMT
#95801
Even if you prefer Hillary and think she's better in every other way than Trump, you can't defend her on the press conference issue. It's one where Trump is objectively better than her.

It's like the tax release issue. A Trump supporter might argue it isn't a huge deal that Trump doesn't release his taxes, but they still have to concede that Hillary doing so while he doesn't can be anything other than a positive point for Hillary over Trump.

I think to suggest otherwise on either issue is just childish. If you're incapable of giving due credit to someone just because you loathe them, or rightly criticizing someone just because you support them, then you're just being stupid
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 21 2016 20:30 GMT
#95802
There really isn't much to defend. The press conference format is not automatically better than interviews and or face to face time with Hilary. As long as the press has access to the candidate, it really is much of a problem.

And Trump bans outlets that ask him questions he doesn't like, so he really isn't that much better.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43219 Posts
August 21 2016 20:36 GMT
#95803
On August 22 2016 05:27 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Even if you prefer Hillary and think she's better in every other way than Trump, you can't defend her on the press conference issue. It's one where Trump is objectively better than her.

It's like the tax release issue. A Trump supporter might argue it isn't a huge deal that Trump doesn't release his taxes, but they still have to concede that Hillary doing so while he doesn't can be anything other than a positive point for Hillary over Trump.

I think to suggest otherwise on either issue is just childish. If you're incapable of giving due credit to someone just because you loathe them, or rightly criticizing someone just because you support them, then you're just being stupid

I don't feel like she's failing to communicate her views or answer questions because of it. It'd be one thing if it was a complete blackout in which nobody was allowed to get her to explain her policies or answer questions but that's not the case here. However I do agree that it's comparable to the tax release issue, going "but what about the press conferences?" to me is going to land about as well as the tax release argument with someone who believes that Hillary literally killed Ben Ghazi. I don't personally see it as an issue, I don't think Hillary is failing to address the public or the press and I certainly don't think it's an important enough issue to change my support in this election. But I think all of that will apply to the tax releases for the Trump side. At the end of the day the battle lines are drawn very far apart here to the point that pretty much no argument or revelation is particularly significant.

It's a strange state of affairs and it renders the kind of "gotcha" attack that zeo attempted completely irrelevant because he and I see this election in such different terms that there is basically no overlap between the things that we think are important.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
August 21 2016 20:42 GMT
#95804
To me, I always thought press conferences were intended to either:

1) Provide clarification or justification on a recent event the person presenting was involved in.
2) Provide a platform to introduce or celebrate a new item/topic/platform of the person presenting.
3) Provide a platform to denounce something that the person presenting is against.

I don't see how it is a necessary item for Hillary if she has been answering reporter questions, been in interviews, been present to questioning before congress and on TV several times, etc. Press conferences were always to me a "HEY LOOK AT ME" thing if it wasn't actually related to a current pressing event.
Yargh
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5765 Posts
August 21 2016 21:33 GMT
#95805
On August 22 2016 05:26 puerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2016 03:40 oBlade wrote:
On August 21 2016 18:30 puerk wrote:
just to clarify about the reuninfication: gorbachov is not a country.

Gorbachev is not a country. What a revelation. Only our parents' generation vividly remembers the day Ze Great Kimunikvator stood up to the president of the traditionally hard-line US and said "Komrade Reagans, teer down zis voll." Reunification didn't just happen by accident, it took diplomacy on the part of the US to make it happen both with the USSR, Poland that didn't want to get "breathing room"ed again, and those in NATO that were actually apprehensive about supporting a sovereign Germany.


Your understanding of the forces leading to reunification are so obnoxiously bad it hurts.
I am from Leipzig. I was born in the GDR, my parents protested in 1989 and were part of church organized groups, and understandably afraid, that there would be repeats of 1953, 68 or Tian'anmen.

The reunification happened because of the bravery of demonstrating people in the streets, the sowjet decision not to send tanks again as they did before, and the decision of the outnumbered police and secret police to not slaughter the 70000 people protesting peacefully on the 9.10.1989.

Reagan had no influence on those people. None at all. The people in power and responsible that it didn't turn into a bloodbath, looked to the east for guidance, not across the ocean. The Kremlin not sending troops, and not ordering a violent crackdown on protests, was vital, but it was inaction that allowed local action to succeed not action inspired by reagan or what ever you imagine in your purposefully ridiculous version of history you wrote.

Maybe this helps you understand: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/lets-please-stop-crediting-ronald-reagan-for-the-fall-of-the-berlin-wall/262647/

but i doubt it judging your post history.

You said in a one-liner something to the effect of Gorbachev reunified the country and I was mocking you. You now thought that I was the one representing the literal claim that everything good in the world is directly owed to Ronald Reagan? He wasn't even president. The things you are describing are not historical accidents that just happened to result in a smooth reunification. Gorbachev didn't set out to gift-wrap East Germany to NATO and do everything in his power to weaken the Soviet sphere. Yes, it started with the people. But that isn't the whole story or you're doing a disservice to everyone who protests in the name of democracy and self-determination and fails to get it. Like the Czechs under the USSR. The protests and mass migration were an opportunity seized by the Bush administration.

We owe deep gratitude to President Bush, Secretary of State Baker and the US negotiating team headed by Robert Zoellick. Without their commitment and determination German unification would not have been brought about. The “Treaty on the Final Settlement with respect to Germany” has stood the test of time.

Dieter Kastrup, Director General for Political Affairs, West Germany, 1988-1990
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43219 Posts
August 21 2016 21:43 GMT
#95806
Reunification was opposed by many in western Europe as I recall on the grounds that a united Germany would inevitably take its rightful place as a European superpower, eclipsing Britain and France and reigniting the conflict that had been raging since 1870. Thatcher was outspoken on the matter for example remarking that
We beat the Germans twice, and now they're back.

and Mitterrand agreed. Not that I blame them, I have thirty years of peaceful European hindsight to approve of reunification from whereas from their historical perspective the stability and peace in Europe was contingent on Germany not having the strength to challenge France or Britain.

The Americans are doing us all a favour with the continued occupation of Germany, although the EU has given Germany a less violent means to express her economic, demographic and political primacy within Europe. The unified German state (well, almost unified, Austria is still outside) will always represent a threat to peace in Europe and exists only because it was not politically feasible for the other national leaders to prevent it. Continued US occupation and military, economic and political integration through NATO and the EU respectively were the best compromise that could be made to assuage the fears of the Anglo-French axis.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 21 2016 22:08 GMT
#95807
WASHINGTON - Donald Trump's campaign expenses more than doubled last month, even as the Republican presidential nominee held his payroll to about 70 employees, aired zero television advertisements and undertook no significant operational buildout across the country.

Instead, about half of the campaign's $18.5 million in spending was vacuumed up by Giles-Parscale, a web design and marketing firm new to national politics, Federal Election Commission filings show. It's a crossover vendor from Trump's real estate organization.

The campaign paid Giles-Parscale $8.4 million in July, about twice what the San Antonio firm had collected from it over the course of the preceding year. Brad Parscale, the president, is the campaign's director of digital marketing.

The big expense came as Trump put a new emphasis on online fundraising, after paying for his primary run mostly out of his own pocket.

Millions more went to air travel. The campaign paid about $2 million for private jets other than Trump's own TAG Air, which also collected $500,000.

Some of Trump's consultants are also mysteriously well-paid.

Chess Bedsole, the campaign's Alabama state director, was paid $64,000 last month for field consulting. His last campaign payment was for $15,000 in December.

Yet the campaign's payroll remained thin, and there did not appear to be much new in the way of office leases across the country, including in critical battleground states such as Ohio.

Trump has relied heavily on the Republican National Committee for conventional campaign infrastructure. And he's boasted of holding the line on his campaign spending. But he's running critically low on time to build an operation that can compete with Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-21 23:06:11
August 21 2016 23:04 GMT
#95808
On August 22 2016 06:33 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2016 05:26 puerk wrote:
On August 22 2016 03:40 oBlade wrote:
On August 21 2016 18:30 puerk wrote:
just to clarify about the reuninfication: gorbachov is not a country.

Gorbachev is not a country. What a revelation. Only our parents' generation vividly remembers the day Ze Great Kimunikvator stood up to the president of the traditionally hard-line US and said "Komrade Reagans, teer down zis voll." Reunification didn't just happen by accident, it took diplomacy on the part of the US to make it happen both with the USSR, Poland that didn't want to get "breathing room"ed again, and those in NATO that were actually apprehensive about supporting a sovereign Germany.


Your understanding of the forces leading to reunification are so obnoxiously bad it hurts.
I am from Leipzig. I was born in the GDR, my parents protested in 1989 and were part of church organized groups, and understandably afraid, that there would be repeats of 1953, 68 or Tian'anmen.

The reunification happened because of the bravery of demonstrating people in the streets, the sowjet decision not to send tanks again as they did before, and the decision of the outnumbered police and secret police to not slaughter the 70000 people protesting peacefully on the 9.10.1989.

Reagan had no influence on those people. None at all. The people in power and responsible that it didn't turn into a bloodbath, looked to the east for guidance, not across the ocean. The Kremlin not sending troops, and not ordering a violent crackdown on protests, was vital, but it was inaction that allowed local action to succeed not action inspired by reagan or what ever you imagine in your purposefully ridiculous version of history you wrote.

Maybe this helps you understand: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/09/lets-please-stop-crediting-ronald-reagan-for-the-fall-of-the-berlin-wall/262647/

but i doubt it judging your post history.

You said in a one-liner something to the effect of Gorbachev reunified the country and I was mocking you. You now thought that I was the one representing the literal claim that everything good in the world is directly owed to Ronald Reagan? He wasn't even president. The things you are describing are not historical accidents that just happened to result in a smooth reunification. Gorbachev didn't set out to gift-wrap East Germany to NATO and do everything in his power to weaken the Soviet sphere. Yes, it started with the people. But that isn't the whole story or you're doing a disservice to everyone who protests in the name of democracy and self-determination and fails to get it. Like the Czechs under the USSR. The protests and mass migration were an opportunity seized by the Bush administration.

Show nested quote +
We owe deep gratitude to President Bush, Secretary of State Baker and the US negotiating team headed by Robert Zoellick. Without their commitment and determination German unification would not have been brought about. The “Treaty on the Final Settlement with respect to Germany” has stood the test of time.

Dieter Kastrup, Director General for Political Affairs, West Germany, 1988-1990

Saying that:
"I just think the country that brought East and West Germany together can do better."
is still totally wrong..

but you apparently can never concede, when you are wrong about stuff, you do not know very much about, then you get defensive and mock people with accents... as if that constitutes an argument and get even more defensive if you get called out for your contentless post...

the country that brought germany together was germany not the us.
and even gorbachov had a bigger role than any american politicians....
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-22 01:14:03
August 22 2016 01:09 GMT
#95809
On August 22 2016 06:43 KwarK wrote:
Reunification was opposed by many in western Europe as I recall on the grounds that a united Germany would inevitably take its rightful place as a European superpower, eclipsing Britain and France and reigniting the conflict that had been raging since 1870. Thatcher was outspoken on the matter for example remarking that
Show nested quote +
We beat the Germans twice, and now they're back.

and Mitterrand agreed. Not that I blame them, I have thirty years of peaceful European hindsight to approve of reunification from whereas from their historical perspective the stability and peace in Europe was contingent on Germany not having the strength to challenge France or Britain.

The Americans are doing us all a favour with the continued occupation of Germany, although the EU has given Germany a less violent means to express her economic, demographic and political primacy within Europe. The unified German state (well, almost unified, Austria is still outside) will always represent a threat to peace in Europe and exists only because it was not politically feasible for the other national leaders to prevent it. Continued US occupation and military, economic and political integration through NATO and the EU respectively were the best compromise that could be made to assuage the fears of the Anglo-French axis.



The unified German state (well, almost unified, Austria is still outside) will always represent a threat to peace in Europe and exists only because it was not politically feasible for the other national leaders to prevent it. Continued US occupation and military, economic and political integration through NATO and the EU respectively were the best compromise that could be made to assuage the fears of the Anglo-French axis

This cant be serious. Not a single person in Europe is afraid of Germany and its power. They are afraid economically but no one thinks it is a threat to peace.

Anyway:whats up with Hillary hiding and dodging. She has to give a press conference at some point,even more when president.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43219 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-22 01:36:52
August 22 2016 01:31 GMT
#95810
On August 22 2016 10:09 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2016 06:43 KwarK wrote:
Reunification was opposed by many in western Europe as I recall on the grounds that a united Germany would inevitably take its rightful place as a European superpower, eclipsing Britain and France and reigniting the conflict that had been raging since 1870. Thatcher was outspoken on the matter for example remarking that
We beat the Germans twice, and now they're back.

and Mitterrand agreed. Not that I blame them, I have thirty years of peaceful European hindsight to approve of reunification from whereas from their historical perspective the stability and peace in Europe was contingent on Germany not having the strength to challenge France or Britain.

The Americans are doing us all a favour with the continued occupation of Germany, although the EU has given Germany a less violent means to express her economic, demographic and political primacy within Europe. The unified German state (well, almost unified, Austria is still outside) will always represent a threat to peace in Europe and exists only because it was not politically feasible for the other national leaders to prevent it. Continued US occupation and military, economic and political integration through NATO and the EU respectively were the best compromise that could be made to assuage the fears of the Anglo-French axis.



The unified German state (well, almost unified, Austria is still outside) will always represent a threat to peace in Europe and exists only because it was not politically feasible for the other national leaders to prevent it. Continued US occupation and military, economic and political integration through NATO and the EU respectively were the best compromise that could be made to assuage the fears of the Anglo-French axis

This cant be serious. Not a single person in Europe is afraid of Germany and its power. They are afraid economically but no one thinks it is a threat to peace.

Anyway:whats up with Hillary hiding and dodging. She has to give a press conference at some point,even more when president.

Nobody is afraid of Germany today because Germany isn't trying to conquer the world today. But from the creation of Germany the balance of power in Europe was fundamentally broken because the German Empire was by far the most powerful land power on the continent. The wars of 1870, 1914-18 and 1939-45 were the natural result of Germany attempting to take what it viewed as its natural place at the fore of Europe. The very existence of Germany is a threat because only German restraint, or the exertions of an external power (USSR, USA), can restrain Germany if Germany decides to try to take over Europe. And it has a pretty long track record of trying.

I'm not saying I think Germany is about to start goose stepping into Poland in 2016. I'm saying that Germany by its very existence upsets the balance of power in Europe and that, given Germany's track record, a divided Germany was desirable for the other nations of Europe. In 1989 there was a very understandable of "fuck, here we go again".

Hopefully Germany doesn't try and invade the rest of Europe again and right now it's looking like they won't. But you know which country definitely isn't going to? Austria. You know why? Because it's an artificially separated piece of Germany for various historical reasons which has stayed separate and by itself has no imperial aspirations or capabilities. West and East Germany represented a nice opportunity to have two more Austrias sitting in the middle of Europe instead of the German superstate. German reunification returns us to a point of "well let's hope this time it turns out differently than it has every single time before". Hence why continued US occupation and political, military and economic integration is so important. 30 years after unification the idea that Germany will invade France unprovoked seems absurd. But in 1989 the French were super into the whole divided Germany thing and the way that their young men weren't being slaughtered on the Rhine and why mess with a good thing. You can't read history backwards, the fears of a unified Germany did not materialize but that doesn't mean the fears were wrong, it could equally mean that the actions taken in light of those fears, continued occupation and integration, were successful.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
August 22 2016 01:41 GMT
#95811
On August 22 2016 05:42 JinDesu wrote:
To me, I always thought press conferences were intended to either:

1) Provide clarification or justification on a recent event the person presenting was involved in.
2) Provide a platform to introduce or celebrate a new item/topic/platform of the person presenting.
3) Provide a platform to denounce something that the person presenting is against.

I don't see how it is a necessary item for Hillary if she has been answering reporter questions, been in interviews, been present to questioning before congress and on TV several times, etc. Press conferences were always to me a "HEY LOOK AT ME" thing if it wasn't actually related to a current pressing event.


There are numerous rumors about Hillary's health gravely deteriorating and it will soon hit the "mainstream" media.

http://www.infowars.com/dr-drew-gravely-concerned-about-hillary-clintons-health/

(I have no idea what news sources are considered biased, I picked the first I found)
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43219 Posts
August 22 2016 01:45 GMT
#95812
Infowars isn't a news website, it's a conspiracy theory website. See
www.infowars.com/did-the-chemtrail-flu-kill-prince-and-merle-haggard/
Did the Chemtrail Flu Kill Prince and Merle Haggard?

Apparently the answer is yes because the New World Order needed to silence him.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
August 22 2016 01:48 GMT
#95813
On August 22 2016 10:45 KwarK wrote:
Infowars isn't a news website, it's a conspiracy theory website. See
www.infowars.com/did-the-chemtrail-flu-kill-prince-and-merle-haggard/
Show nested quote +
Did the Chemtrail Flu Kill Prince and Merle Haggard?

Apparently the answer is yes because the New World Order needed to silence him.


So Dr. Drew's claims are totally false and Hillary's Health is perfect?
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-22 01:51:49
August 22 2016 01:51 GMT
#95814
"dr drew" is as relevant as dr phil on hillary's health
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
August 22 2016 01:54 GMT
#95815
On August 22 2016 10:48 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2016 10:45 KwarK wrote:
Infowars isn't a news website, it's a conspiracy theory website. See
www.infowars.com/did-the-chemtrail-flu-kill-prince-and-merle-haggard/
Did the Chemtrail Flu Kill Prince and Merle Haggard?

Apparently the answer is yes because the New World Order needed to silence him.


So Dr. Drew's claims are totally false and Hillary's Health is perfect?


Are you going to quote Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil next? Infowars is a joke of a site. Maybe the chemtrails are controlling Shillary's brain waves! Lets check in with what Martin Shkreli thinks next like anyone gives a damn.
LiquidDota Staff
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 22 2016 01:56 GMT
#95816
Did Trump really make michelle bachmann his foreign policy advisor?
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
August 22 2016 02:00 GMT
#95817
If you are going to be so suspicious of the so called mainstream media then you should at least exercise the same suspicion about these alternative sources. The agenda is obvious.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 22 2016 02:05 GMT
#95818
It doesn't take a genius to see that Hillary has health problems. She very clearly has suffered from some sort of cognitive disorder, though we can only speculate as to its nature and severity.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-22 02:10:53
August 22 2016 02:09 GMT
#95819
On August 22 2016 11:05 xDaunt wrote:
It doesn't take a genius to see that Hillary has health problems. She very clearly has suffered from some sort of cognitive disorder, though we can only speculate as to its nature and severity.


Her Health records are public, she's had a concussion years ago but is otherwise healthy. Are you kidding?
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9136 Posts
August 22 2016 02:12 GMT
#95820
On August 22 2016 10:48 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2016 10:45 KwarK wrote:
Infowars isn't a news website, it's a conspiracy theory website. See
www.infowars.com/did-the-chemtrail-flu-kill-prince-and-merle-haggard/
Did the Chemtrail Flu Kill Prince and Merle Haggard?

Apparently the answer is yes because the New World Order needed to silence him.


So Dr. Drew's claims are totally false and Hillary's Health is perfect?

I clicked that against my better judgement, but I'm not hearing where he says 'her health is gravely deteriorating' like you are claiming. He is criticizing her doctors for how they do screening and what treatments they issued her for minor things like deep vein thrombosis that is entirely irrelevant to the job. What exactly is the story here?
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