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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4773

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42986 Posts
August 18 2016 16:55 GMT
#95441
On August 19 2016 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.

Time to move to that Alaskan village and demand my cut. I'll also adopt a handful of children before I go, $300,000 per head is a pretty sweet deal.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 18 2016 16:58 GMT
#95442
On August 19 2016 01:55 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.

Time to move to that Alaskan village and demand my cut. I'll also adopt a handful of children before I go, $300,000 per head is a pretty sweet deal.

I don't think they are getting all the money directly. They need to build the town infrastructure as well. Police, fire, town hall. Sim City shit.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 17:04:45
August 18 2016 17:04 GMT
#95443
On August 19 2016 01:58 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:55 KwarK wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.

Time to move to that Alaskan village and demand my cut. I'll also adopt a handful of children before I go, $300,000 per head is a pretty sweet deal.

I don't think they are getting all the money directly. They need to build the town infrastructure as well. Police, fire, town hall. Sim City shit.


Don't forget the roads, plumbing, utilities, etc. The price tag is "create an entire city (well, village)" not "house 600 people."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42986 Posts
August 18 2016 17:11 GMT
#95444
On August 19 2016 01:58 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:55 KwarK wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.

Time to move to that Alaskan village and demand my cut. I'll also adopt a handful of children before I go, $300,000 per head is a pretty sweet deal.

I don't think they are getting all the money directly. They need to build the town infrastructure as well. Police, fire, town hall. Sim City shit.

I get that but it's still too much. 600 people is a drop in the ocean nationally, rehoming them isn't expensive unless they demand that it be. The kind of money they're demanding for their rehoming expenses, 300k per head, is completely out of proportion with normal spending on displaced peoples. Give them a rebuild your life emergency grant if needed and let them choose whether to join a preexisting community or spend it on fire stations.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 18 2016 17:13 GMT
#95445
Yeah they need to not be given any money from taxpayers. Pretty sure you're just gonna have to move.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 18 2016 17:15 GMT
#95446
On August 19 2016 02:11 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:58 Plansix wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:55 KwarK wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.

Time to move to that Alaskan village and demand my cut. I'll also adopt a handful of children before I go, $300,000 per head is a pretty sweet deal.

I don't think they are getting all the money directly. They need to build the town infrastructure as well. Police, fire, town hall. Sim City shit.

I get that but it's still too much. 600 people is a drop in the ocean nationally, rehoming them isn't expensive unless they demand that it be. The kind of money they're demanding for their rehoming expenses, 300k per head, is completely out of proportion with normal spending on displaced peoples. Give them a rebuild your life emergency grant if needed and let them choose whether to join a preexisting community or spend it on fire stations.

Except it is Alaska. That place isn't overflowing with residents, housing or really anything else. Sure, they could just send people out there with the value of their houses and a little extra, but I am not really sure that is going to solve the problem. Because they need these people to leave or force them out if the land is going to become inhabitable.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42986 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 17:28:27
August 18 2016 17:23 GMT
#95447
In my mind disaster relief is things like bottled water, tents, MREs etc. Now given that these are Americans I can see why people might want the government to go a little above and beyond but $180,000,000 to take care of 600 people is just silly. Beggars can't be choosers, a ticket to the mainland which is renowned for qualities such as not being consumed by the sea and a grant to rebuild their life ought to cover this. It's a better deal than is available to most.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
August 18 2016 17:25 GMT
#95448
It's almost surprising that the country notorious for not caring about its citizens would suddenly put so much many into caring about a specific group of citizens. Maybe it's guilt because they did they fair part in causing the rise of the sea level in the first place?
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 17:31:16
August 18 2016 17:29 GMT
#95449
Gawker is shutting down, the rest of the sites owned by Gawker media will remain active. It appears Peter Thiel won is battle for freedom of speech, A/k/a, freedom for Peter Thiel and no one else.

To be clear, I have no love for Gawker and think much of their reporting was garbage. But billionaires using the court system to attack publications they don't like is garbage. Especially when they also talk about free speech and the free market as great things that should be protected.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42986 Posts
August 18 2016 17:31 GMT
#95450
The justice department ending private prisons is pretty awesome btw. I like lame duck Obama a lot. He's not going to be around long enough to actually do the leg work for these things but it looks a lot like Hillary is going to have a decent mandate and majority. Obama is just checking things off the "how the fuck is this still a thing, someone should do something" list because he's not up for reelection and then Hillary can come in with a to-do list already grandfathered in.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 18 2016 17:39 GMT
#95451
On August 19 2016 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Gawker is shutting down, the rest of the sites owned by Gawker media will remain active. It appears Peter Thiel won is battle for freedom of speech, A/k/a, freedom for Peter Thiel and no one else.

To be clear, I have no love for Gawker and think much of their reporting was garbage. But billionaires using the court system to attack publications they don't like is garbage. Especially when they also talk about free speech and the free market as great things that should be protected.

As I've said on this subject before...

Billionaire backers should be irrelevant to the legal system. Legitimate lawsuits should be able to go forward without requiring giant check-books. Bad lawsuits should be stopped regardless of how much money is thrown at lawyers, and long before the dollar figures come close to 5 figures, let alone 10.

The fact that Peter Thiel is even a talking point is a problem that goes far beyond any issue of free speech.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 17:44:47
August 18 2016 17:43 GMT
#95452
If you look at the history of the Hulk’s lawsuit against Gawker, they shopped around the courts and went through special effort to make sure the lawsuit didn’t trigger Gawkers liability insurance. The case was dismissed several time and they just moved on to a new court and filed a new case. His efforts to put them under was a matter of attrition. And he will do it to the next news media site he disapproves of.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TMagpie
Profile Joined June 2015
265 Posts
August 18 2016 17:44 GMT
#95453
On August 19 2016 01:47 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:33 TMagpie wrote:
On August 19 2016 01:03 Plansix wrote:
The filibuster itself is a great tool to stop bad bills or for a minority opinion/view to be heard. I am reluctant to remove any tools that would limit the power of the minority in the senate, which is already pretty weak.


Not only are filibusters great in practice at giving minorities a voice, it's also a philosophical no brainer.

"Does anyone have anymore information they'd like to add before we decide the fate of 300 million people?"

Is it a misused strategy at times? Yes. Does it make a mockery of what we expect the game should be? Sort of. But sometimes you 4pool in game 5 because yolo, that's how you get your wins.

i'd like to limit filibusters to relevant info. since that is relevant to deciding people's fate; irrelevant info shouldn't be allowed though.
the main questions is what parameters/limits on the filibuster should there be.
senate allows unlimited on topic debate anyways, generally; so i'ts not like they'd stop debate if someone had something relevant to say.


I agree with you. What I'm saying is that filibusters are side effects of gamers gaming the system and not the goal of the rules created by the system. So long as there are rules that dictate priority of action--stall tactics will always be present.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 18 2016 17:55 GMT
#95454
On August 19 2016 02:43 Plansix wrote:
If you look at the history of the Hulk’s lawsuit against Gawker, they shopped around the courts and went through special effort to make sure the lawsuit didn’t trigger Gawkers liability insurance. The case was dismissed several time and they just moved on to a new court and filed a new case. His efforts to put them under was a matter of attrition. And he will do it to the next news media site he disapproves of.

Which, again, shows a much larger issue than Peter Thiel and Gawker. This is not the first time that court shopping and repeated filings has happened. It may just be the most publicized. There's a reason why the US is known for endless litigation.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11559 Posts
August 18 2016 18:01 GMT
#95455
On August 19 2016 02:43 Plansix wrote:
If you look at the history of the Hulk’s lawsuit against Gawker, they shopped around the courts and went through special effort to make sure the lawsuit didn’t trigger Gawkers liability insurance. The case was dismissed several time and they just moved on to a new court and filed a new case. His efforts to put them under was a matter of attrition. And he will do it to the next news media site he disapproves of.


I hope that will make people realize that you can buy justice in the american court system. Not like anyone didn't know about that before. "I can't afford the legal costs of sueing x" "The legal costs will ruin you" were not really unknown statements in the US beforehands. Rich people shouldn't be able to ruin companies by using the legal system just because they want to, and rich companies shouldn't be able to ruin people or smaller competitors by using the legal system just because they want to. And yet they still can, because if you keep putting money into the legal system, the other party has to match or lose the case. It is really silly.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28690 Posts
August 18 2016 18:18 GMT
#95456
While I certainly agree with the sentiment that rich people should not have more justice than poor people, I'm kinda willing to not care all that much about this principle when it rids us of gawker.
Moderator
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 18 2016 18:24 GMT
#95457
Justice for everyone equally, with the exception of the unpopular.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
August 18 2016 18:25 GMT
#95458
On August 19 2016 03:18 Liquid`Drone wrote:
While I certainly agree with the sentiment that rich people should not have more justice than poor people, I'm kinda willing to not care all that much about this principle when it rids us of gawker.


Gawker shutting down is a plus for human civilization

Now if we could only get rid of Buzzfeed, HuffPost, and Salon
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5674 Posts
August 18 2016 18:30 GMT
#95459
On August 19 2016 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Gawker is shutting down, the rest of the sites owned by Gawker media will remain active. It appears Peter Thiel won is battle for freedom of speech, A/k/a, freedom for Peter Thiel and no one else.

To be clear, I have no love for Gawker and think much of their reporting was garbage. But billionaires using the court system to attack publications they don't like is garbage. Especially when they also talk about free speech and the free market as great things that should be protected.

On November 21 2015 00:24 Plansix wrote:
Freedom of expression is not freedom from social consequences.

"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 18:34:55
August 18 2016 18:32 GMT
#95460
Love the new freedom of the press in this modern era. But it is a violation of someone’s right to freedom of speech to ban them from twitter, reddit or shut down comments on news sites.

On August 19 2016 03:30 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Gawker is shutting down, the rest of the sites owned by Gawker media will remain active. It appears Peter Thiel won is battle for freedom of speech, A/k/a, freedom for Peter Thiel and no one else.

To be clear, I have no love for Gawker and think much of their reporting was garbage. But billionaires using the court system to attack publications they don't like is garbage. Especially when they also talk about free speech and the free market as great things that should be protected.

On November 21 2015 00:24 Plansix wrote:
Freedom of expression is not freedom from social consequences.



Are you silly enough to be confused by that? I’m talking about someone telling you to shut up or your are an asshole. Not someone filing lawsuits against you until you go bankruptcy. Do you think its cool if a rich person keeps filing frivolously lawsuits against someone else because they were mean once?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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