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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4772

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
August 18 2016 16:10 GMT
#95421
On August 19 2016 01:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

Congratulations on the first step back to a civilized society?

Will be replaced by private death rows. Outside the US.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 18 2016 16:12 GMT
#95422
On August 19 2016 00:54 Adreme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 00:21 TMagpie wrote:
On August 19 2016 00:04 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 18 2016 23:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On August 18 2016 11:25 farvacola wrote:
Get single payer finally and take states out of the process entirely, I say.


Get votes to support it and it will. Its not like the DEMS were all "fuck single payer"


Not all of them, just enough to kill it. I don't remember any Democrats calling them out really either.


Dems had a majority but still failed to pass ACA and kept gutting it and gutting it. Was it to appease conservatives? Slightly--it was mostly being gutted to appease fellow democrats who wouldn't stand in line.


It was because they needed 100% of all democrats in the senate on board in order to pass it and thats a very tall order to get everyone in a party on board a single piece of legislation all because of the pointless and unneeded filibuster.

Considering the ACA barely got through the senate and supreme court, I question the wisdom of claiming single payer would was the magical solution. I support single payer, but I do not believe we can instant switch our healthcare industry to it without it being a complete shit show.

One of the problems I have with the progressive wing of the democratic party is that they don’t plan for the Republicans undoing the laws they create. They want to make huge, disruptive leaps forward, but don’t plan for the public turning against that plan when it gets hard and voting people in to undo the entire thing.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 18 2016 16:18 GMT
#95423
On August 19 2016 01:12 Plansix wrote:
One of the problems I have with the progressive wing of the democratic party is that they don’t plan for the Republicans undoing the laws they create. They want to make huge, disruptive leaps forward, but don’t plan for the public turning against that plan when it gets hard and voting people in to undo the entire thing.

To be fair, the Republicans are trying to make that happen to the ACA anyway.
Moderator
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 16:23:07
August 18 2016 16:22 GMT
#95424
I suspect the SCOTUS decisions would have completely gutted any public option that made it through the Senate as well, since it would almost certainly have ended up tied to the Medicaid expansion and offered at the state level.

Of course, that's not a great reason not to include it, but I doubt we'd be much better off (at least in the states that are in the worst trouble since they denied the expansion).
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15366 Posts
August 18 2016 16:24 GMT
#95425
On August 19 2016 00:08 Dan HH wrote:


What the fuck is he talking about?

Yeah at this point I have no idea WTF is going on anymore.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 16:27:27
August 18 2016 16:25 GMT
#95426
On August 19 2016 01:18 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:12 Plansix wrote:
One of the problems I have with the progressive wing of the democratic party is that they don’t plan for the Republicans undoing the laws they create. They want to make huge, disruptive leaps forward, but don’t plan for the public turning against that plan when it gets hard and voting people in to undo the entire thing.

To be fair, the Republicans are trying to make that happen to the ACA anyway.

And they were one judge away on the Supreme Court from obtaining that goal. The progressive wing of the Democrats need to learn to play the long game. A single payer plan in the US is a life time accomplishment, not something you slam through with a super majority.

And fighting over the ACA also clogged up congress for those two years, which meant they couldn't address anything else. Including campaign finance or any other issues the public wanted addressed.

On August 19 2016 01:22 TheTenthDoc wrote:
I suspect the SCOTUS decisions would have completely gutted any public option that made it through the Senate as well, since it would almost certainly have ended up tied to the Medicaid expansion and offered at the state level.

Of course, that's not a great reason not to include it, but I doubt we'd be much better off (at least in the states that are in the worst trouble since they denied the expansion).


You don't include it to avoid that legal precedent, barring a single payer plan from existing for an unknown period of time that could last decades.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 18 2016 16:25 GMT
#95427
Trump is saying liken the BREXIT campaign in the Uk that was expected to lose and down in the Polls he will make a comeback and win.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22666 Posts
August 18 2016 16:31 GMT
#95428
On August 19 2016 01:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Trump is saying liken the BREXIT campaign in the Uk that was expected to lose and down in the Polls he will make a comeback and win.

81 days is not soon(tm) on twitter.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TMagpie
Profile Joined June 2015
265 Posts
August 18 2016 16:33 GMT
#95429
On August 19 2016 01:03 Plansix wrote:
The filibuster itself is a great tool to stop bad bills or for a minority opinion/view to be heard. I am reluctant to remove any tools that would limit the power of the minority in the senate, which is already pretty weak.


Not only are filibusters great in practice at giving minorities a voice, it's also a philosophical no brainer.

"Does anyone have anymore information they'd like to add before we decide the fate of 300 million people?"

Is it a misused strategy at times? Yes. Does it make a mockery of what we expect the game should be? Sort of. But sometimes you 4pool in game 5 because yolo, that's how you get your wins.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 18 2016 16:33 GMT
#95430
What if Trump proposes the states he is favored to win "BREXIT" from the US?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22666 Posts
August 18 2016 16:35 GMT
#95431
On August 19 2016 01:33 Mohdoo wrote:
What if Trump proposes the states he is favored to win "BREXIT" from the US?

Secession is not allowed in the US so not legally possible.

Fortunately Trump doesnt even know what is legal or not so lets go!.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 18 2016 16:37 GMT
#95432
On August 19 2016 01:35 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:33 Mohdoo wrote:
What if Trump proposes the states he is favored to win "BREXIT" from the US?

Secession is not allowed in the US so not legally possible.

Fortunately Trump doesnt even know what is legal or not so lets go!.


"We're gonna build a wall and make Shillery pay for it"
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 18 2016 16:38 GMT
#95433
On August 19 2016 01:03 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/dmedin11/status/766299013872250880


is this fed prisons only?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
August 18 2016 16:42 GMT
#95434
On August 19 2016 01:33 Mohdoo wrote:
What if Trump proposes the states he is favored to win "BREXIT" from the US?

They will then unite with the remains of the GB, if Scotland leaves?
And then every few years, states will be traded back and forth between this Greater Trumpish Britain, the US and the EU? This sounds like Secret and EG in Dota.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 18 2016 16:43 GMT
#95435
The residents of a small coastal Alaskan village have voted to move to the mainland because of rising sea levels, but they may not have the funds to do it.

The 600-person village of Shishmaref, located on an island just north of the Bering Strait, has for decades been ravaged by erosion tied to climate change, leading residents to seek a more sustainable place to live.

But the community is racked by poverty, making it difficult to relocate, which is estimated to cost $180m.

Officials held a special election on Tuesday so residents could vote on whether to relocate or to stay and add environmental defenses. The vote was relatively close, with 89 for relocating and 78 to remain.

But both choices came with a steep price tag. The most recent estimate on relocating, from a 2004 Army Corps of Engineers study, was $180m. Officials said it would cost $110m for the environmental protections needed for the community to safely stay in one of Alaska’s most eroded coastal areas.

Mayor Harold Weyiouanna Sr told local news channel KTUU that doing nothing was not an option because while land crumbles into the sea, the community continues to grow.

“They did put a seawall or rock walls up, and it seems to be holding, but we need more protection to protect the whole island,” Weyiouanna said.

The US Government Accountability Office (GAO) said Shishmaref is one of 31 villages that face “imminent threats” from flooding and coastal erosion.

Shishmaref residents have been considering relocation since the mid-1970s, when it first introduced shoreline defense structures. The community also voted to leave in 2002, but was unable to because of cost.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-18 16:49:02
August 18 2016 16:47 GMT
#95436
On August 19 2016 01:33 TMagpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 01:03 Plansix wrote:
The filibuster itself is a great tool to stop bad bills or for a minority opinion/view to be heard. I am reluctant to remove any tools that would limit the power of the minority in the senate, which is already pretty weak.


Not only are filibusters great in practice at giving minorities a voice, it's also a philosophical no brainer.

"Does anyone have anymore information they'd like to add before we decide the fate of 300 million people?"

Is it a misused strategy at times? Yes. Does it make a mockery of what we expect the game should be? Sort of. But sometimes you 4pool in game 5 because yolo, that's how you get your wins.

i'd like to limit filibusters to relevant info. since that is relevant to deciding people's fate; irrelevant info shouldn't be allowed though.
the main questions is what parameters/limits on the filibuster should there be.
senate allows unlimited on topic debate anyways, generally; so i'ts not like they'd stop debate if someone had something relevant to say.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44393 Posts
August 18 2016 16:49 GMT
#95437
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 18 2016 16:52 GMT
#95438
Presumably they just want to rebuild the entire village somewhere inland rather than making people relocate to other places.
Moderator
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22666 Posts
August 18 2016 16:53 GMT
#95439
On August 19 2016 01:49 KwarK wrote:
600 people. Let's assume you just give each of them $100,000 and tell them "good luck on the mainland". For a family of four that's $400,000. Total cost $60m. How the fuck have they got the costs at $180m.

I assume that cost factors in building an entire new village for them.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 18 2016 16:54 GMT
#95440
while housing is expensive; it does sound like relocation should be doable; though perhaps not at the same standard of living (unless they want the same degree of homeownership and such). It does seem oddly expensive, even for a pricey place like alaska. Maybe they're being too picky about where they end up?
they should move at any rate though imho, I mean the climate damage is just gonna get worse up there; trying to force stay in an area that's no good just leads to more problems later on.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
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