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On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here.
there's a rather long list of quotes of the known flaws with democracy. and the populace is smarter than it used to be.
it used to be less informed. and people have always been stupid (comparatively speaking at least)
There are some ways to improve the system of course.
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On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here.
I wouldn't say its an American thing. Plenty of democracies around the world have a Trump. Tho they tend to be less crazy, the basis is the same.
The way to deal with it is to work harder on informing and educating the population instead.
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On August 14 2016 08:54 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here. there's a rather long list of quotes of the known flaws with democracy. and the populace is smarter than it used to be. it used to be less informed. and people have always been stupid (comparatively speaking at least) There are some ways to improve the system of course.
I think with the information age people are more bombarded with information that they don't have the time, skill, or the will to sort through it and pick out the good stuff. Information overload.
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On August 14 2016 08:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here. I wouldn't say its an American thing. Plenty of democracies around the world have a Trump. Tho they tend to be less crazy, the basis is the same. The way to deal with it is to work harder on informing and educating the population instead.
I disagree. While many places have populists, demagogues and right wing nut cases, the mistrust/dislike for "dem elitist smaht peoples" seems to be a very american phenomenon and the continuous usage of obvious, blatant lies in the face of contradicting facts might be ok in drunken bar conversations all over the world, but not at the highest levels of the political arenas.
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On August 14 2016 09:14 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 08:57 Gorsameth wrote:On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here. I wouldn't say its an American thing. Plenty of democracies around the world have a Trump. Tho they tend to be less crazy, the basis is the same. The way to deal with it is to work harder on informing and educating the population instead. I disagree. While many places have populists, demagogues and right wing nut cases, the mistrust/dislike for "dem elitist smaht peoples" seems to be a very american phenomenon and the continuous usage of obvious, blatant lies in the face of contradicting facts might be ok in drunken bar conversations all over the world, but not at the highest levels of the political arenas.
happened in brexit; anti-elitism happens a lot all over. As is politicians promising things and saying things that aren't true. It's usually not quite as blatant as trump; which is part of the reason trump is doing so unusually poorly.
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On August 14 2016 09:14 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 08:57 Gorsameth wrote:On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.
In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here. I wouldn't say its an American thing. Plenty of democracies around the world have a Trump. Tho they tend to be less crazy, the basis is the same. The way to deal with it is to work harder on informing and educating the population instead. I disagree. While many places have populists, demagogues and right wing nut cases, the mistrust/dislike for "dem elitist smaht peoples" seems to be a very american phenomenon and the continuous usage of obvious, blatant lies in the face of contradicting facts might be ok in drunken bar conversations all over the world, but not at the highest levels of the political arenas.
Look no further then the UK, brexit and "the people have had enough of experts".
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have some cspan in the background; they're doing some stuff on trade deals with various archival footage. Listening to some of the speeches given at the time on NAFTA, so similar to some of what's being said now about the TPP.
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Norway28648 Posts
anti-establishment sentiments have been on the rise in most of europe for the past decade or so. Western europe hasn't actually elected anyone quite trumpian yet (but nor has the US), but my (albeit superficial) understanding of polish politics leads me to believe that their current government is no better. Less scary, because it's Poland, not the US, but the same type of distrust in 'expert opinion'. And while I'm not commenting on the policy of brexit, that vote was absolutely fueled by much of the same mistrust/dislike for elitists/experts.
Trump's brashness and wrestlemania-like trashtalking personality is, in the west, probably a pretty uniquely american phenomenon, but anti-elitist sentiments run deep. A lot of people are really sick of being told what opinions are societally acceptable and this is reflected in polls all over.
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Yeah this 'Putin riding a bear' idea of strength is a little bit frightening and a good indicator of how developed a country is. It just wouldn't work in a country like Sweden for example. You couldn't put a mouth-breather on a pedestal who randomly trashalks cyclists and vegans and actually gets votes.
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On August 14 2016 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Healthcare is much more expensive if you wait for shit to go wrong than if you do proper preventative care. Something that could be prevented with a $200 treatment can cost $20k if you wait long enough for a problem to develop. But expensive treatments are more profitable so the incentives are all fucked up. So if everyone is insured and gets cheap healthcare, the general cost goes down, and we also get rid of cost rises like increased ER payments because of people who can't pay their bills in the ER.
Most other even somewhat developed countries, even ones that aren't really considered first world, have figured this out a long time ago.
It's not as simple as people not having insurance. Doctors do expensive shit just for the sake of bringing in money. Insurance is actually flaky with paying. But Medicare pays. Now tuition is astronomical, so people become specialists, which is more lucrative, instead of going into primary care, which is more difficult. Then they create little networks where they pass patients around. And every specialty has their own go-to procedures for bringing in money. We're not neglecting preventative care deliberately to do expensive things later instead to make up for it. It's that people are doing expensive and unnecessary things on an industrial scale because like you say, the incentives are set up wrong. And it gets worse because we're not building new medical schools and addressing doctor (and other) shortages.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On August 14 2016 09:48 Nyxisto wrote:
Yeah this 'Putin riding a bear' idea of strength is a little bit frightening and a good indicator of how developed a country is. It just wouldn't work in a country like Sweden for example. You couldn't put a mouth-breather on a pedestal who randomly trashalks cyclists and vegans and actually gets votes.
Incidentally that "strong leader" thing is much more popular with Republican voters, to the point that some of them say they wish they had a strong leader like Putin instead of "weak ass Obama."
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
More of the same:
MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — The Latest on campaign 2016 (all times Eastern):
8:35 p.m.
Donald Trump is threatening to take away the campaign press credentials of The New York Times.
Trump is frequently critical of the Times and upped his attacks on the newspaper during a Saturday night rally in Fairfield, Connecticut.
Trump denounced the paper's recent coverage of him and said, "Maybe we'll start taking the press credentials away."
Sharp criticism of the media is a staple of Trump rallies. He incited the crowd in Connecticut to jeer the reporters more than a half-dozen times in the first minutes of his rally.
Trump says he's not running against the Democratic nominee he calls "crooked Hillary" but "the crooked media."
Source
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NYT article today did paint an extremely unflattering picture of Trump. Can understand his tantrum, even though it's still absurd.
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On August 14 2016 11:45 On_Slaught wrote:
NYT article today did paint an extremely unflattering picture of Trump. Can understand his tantrum, even though it's still absurd.
It's very easy to paint an unflattering picture of Trump; just draw him without the toupee.
In all seriousness though, was the article bullshit or pretty accurate? Because I see a lot of people complaining about biased articles when the article is literally just direct quotes or video clips of Trump digging his own grave
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On August 14 2016 12:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 11:45 On_Slaught wrote:
NYT article today did paint an extremely unflattering picture of Trump. Can understand his tantrum, even though it's still absurd. It's very easy to paint an unflattering picture of Trump; just draw him with the toupee.
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So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/
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On August 14 2016 12:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 11:45 On_Slaught wrote:
NYT article today did paint an extremely unflattering picture of Trump. Can understand his tantrum, even though it's still absurd. It's very easy to paint an unflattering picture of Trump; just draw him without the toupee. In all seriousness though, was the article bullshit or pretty accurate? Because I see a lot of people complaining about biased articles when the article is literally just direct quotes or video clips of Trump digging his own grave
A lot of quotes from anonymous trump people.
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On August 14 2016 12:12 oBlade wrote:So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/
She released her 2015 ones this week, iirc. She released older ones some time ago.
Also, Pence is releasing his. If Pence is, Trump looks worse and worse on this issue. Not that that's ever stopped him.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Mitt Romney got a lot more shit for his taxes than Trump is getting for his right now.
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I guess that he's a lot less wealthy than he claims to be. If it would just be lower tax rates he'd probably brag about it like he did when it turned out that he has stuff manufactured in China (although that's nothing to brag about either really).
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EPT
