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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4736

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5749 Posts
August 14 2016 03:29 GMT
#94701
http://www.milwaukeepolicenews.com/?p=9083

A Milwaukee Police officer shot and killed an armed suspect fleeing from a car on Milwaukee’s North Side.






https://www.rt.com/usa/355828-milwaukee-police-shooting-riots/#.V6_h-muPScs.twitter

Riots and clashes with police have been reported in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, after a man was shot dead by an officer during a chase on foot on Saturday. Police say the victim was armed with a handgun.

Scores of angry African American protesters gathered near the scene of the police shooting at Sherman Boulevard. What at first seemed like a Black Lives Matter-style gathering, however, soon got out of control.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 03:40:19
August 14 2016 03:39 GMT
#94702
On August 14 2016 12:12 oBlade wrote:
So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/

funny that Trump is criticized for things he said that go against what people expect of him while Clinton isn't criticized for things she didn't say, right?

What do you expect there to change? Clinton would be getting heat had she said she refuses to release her tax releases just like she would have been criticized had she said that maybe NATO isn't that good a thing. As it stands she never said those things though.
And I'm fairly sure had Trump not said them either the media would not be criticizing him for it either
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 14 2016 03:47 GMT
#94703
Clinton has released nearly 31 years of tax returns over her political career. Trump has released zero so far.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23436 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 04:42:25
August 14 2016 04:39 GMT
#94704
Hillary said she would release her transcripts when her opponents did. Her opponents released theirs, and the promise was to Democratic primary voters. We just consider it another in a long list of broken and soon to be broken promises/misleadings.

I remember when people were still sticking with the story Hillary wasn't making millions off of speeches after she knew she was running for president.

On August 14 2016 12:29 oBlade wrote:
http://www.milwaukeepolicenews.com/?p=9083

Show nested quote +
A Milwaukee Police officer shot and killed an armed suspect fleeing from a car on Milwaukee’s North Side.


https://twitter.com/BmoreBloc/status/764655291166289920

https://twitter.com/MilwaukeePolice/status/764661167503663104

https://www.rt.com/usa/355828-milwaukee-police-shooting-riots/#.V6_h-muPScs.twitter

Show nested quote +
Riots and clashes with police have been reported in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, after a man was shot dead by an officer during a chase on foot on Saturday. Police say the victim was armed with a handgun.

Scores of angry African American protesters gathered near the scene of the police shooting at Sherman Boulevard. What at first seemed like a Black Lives Matter-style gathering, however, soon got out of control.


It's almost like police should have been fixing this decades ago instead of lying their asses off while letting it get worse. It's no excuse for violence, but I can't act surprised at this point.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5749 Posts
August 14 2016 05:46 GMT
#94705
On August 14 2016 12:39 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2016 12:12 oBlade wrote:
So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/

funny that Trump is criticized for things he said that go against what people expect of him while Clinton isn't criticized for things she didn't say, right?

What do you expect there to change? Clinton would be getting heat had she said she refuses to release her tax releases just like she would have been criticized had she said that maybe NATO isn't that good a thing. As it stands she never said those things though.
And I'm fairly sure had Trump not said them either the media would not be criticizing him for it either

I have no idea why you're bringing up NATO. Clinton is never going to release transcripts of the private speeches she gave (the majority of her income is speaking fees from her status as a politician).
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44970 Posts
August 14 2016 06:27 GMT
#94706
On August 14 2016 12:12 oBlade wrote:
So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/


Well to be fair, Trump was the one putting ridiculous and repetitive demands on Obama; Hillary's not the hypocrite.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 07:15:03
August 14 2016 07:13 GMT
#94707
On August 14 2016 14:46 oBlade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2016 12:39 Toadesstern wrote:
On August 14 2016 12:12 oBlade wrote:
So Hillary didn't release her taxes until August, yet in a year of campaigning I've never heard anyone complain that she hadn't, only that Trump hasn't. Meanwhile people are forgetting that she'll never release her speeches, which is what people actually wanted from her. http://hillarytranscriptclock.com/

funny that Trump is criticized for things he said that go against what people expect of him while Clinton isn't criticized for things she didn't say, right?

What do you expect there to change? Clinton would be getting heat had she said she refuses to release her tax releases just like she would have been criticized had she said that maybe NATO isn't that good a thing. As it stands she never said those things though.
And I'm fairly sure had Trump not said them either the media would not be criticizing him for it either

I have no idea why you're bringing up NATO. Clinton is never going to release transcripts of the private speeches she gave (the majority of her income is speaking fees from her status as a politician).

because your entire point basicly boils down to
"omg, people criticize Trump for what he said (refusal with taxes and all). Unfair media. Noone gave a fuck about Clinton not having it done until very recently".
The reason noone made a fuss about Clintons reports is because she never publicly refused to do that. Hence I brought up another thing Clinton never said to show why the media isn't harping about that either. As a hypothetical example because really, if she's done it for 31 years [assuming what Plansix said is correct] then there's really not a whole lot of reason for anyone to doubt her on that regard unless she openly refuses to do so, is there?
Hell, for all I care she could secretly have the same stance as Trump on NATO, plan to take over the world for her lizardpeople friends and if that's the case she's playing it smarter than him by not mentioning it is all I'm saying.

Here's the thing: I don't know how common it is for people to just release such things and I didn't even know that it's more or less an unwritten law that you have to show your tax returns if you're running for president of the US either before this election. But if that's really how it is there's hardly anything to whine about it if you're getting mentioned in the media for not doing it is there?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 14 2016 07:17 GMT
#94708
It's a common tradition to release your tax returns and most candidates do it.

Personally, if I were a billionaire running for president I would tell everyone to fuck off and make it clear that I wouldn't release any. Tax returns are a pretty personal thing and in this case I don't blame Trump for holding them back. Though I suppose in return it's fair to forgive Hillary for not releasing her speech transcripts, which are probably just generic finance-praising fare anyways.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4851 Posts
August 14 2016 07:30 GMT
#94709
The ever-growing 4th branch:

In nearly eight years in office, President Obama has sought to reshape the nation with a sweeping assertion of executive authority and a canon of regulations that have inserted the United States government more deeply into American life.

Once a presidential candidate with deep misgivings about executive power, Mr. Obama will leave the White House as one of the most prolific authors of major regulations in presidential history.

Blocked for most of his presidency by Congress, Mr. Obama has sought to act however he could. In the process he created the kind of government neither he nor the Republicans wanted — one that depended on bureaucratic bulldozing rather than legislative transparency. But once Mr. Obama got the taste for it, he pursued his executive power without apology, and in ways that will shape the presidency for decades to come.

The Obama administration in its first seven years finalized 560 major regulations — those classified by the Congressional Budget Office as having particularly significant economic or social impacts. That was nearly 50 percent more than the George W. Bush administration during the comparable period, according to data kept by the regulatory studies center at George Washington University.

An army of lawyers working under Mr. Obama’s authority has sought to restructure the nation’s health care and financial industries, limit pollution, bolster workplace protections and extend equal rights to minorities. Under Mr. Obama, the government has literally placed a higher value on human life.


And it has imposed billions of dollars in new costs on businesses and consumers.

Many of the new rules are little known, even as they affect the way Americans eat, love and die. People can dine on genetically engineered salmon. Women can buy emergency contraceptive pills without prescriptions. Military veterans can design their own headstones.

In its final year, the administration is enacting some of its most ambitious rules, including limits on airborne silica at job sites, an overhaul of food labels to clarify nutritional information, and a measure making millions of workers eligible for overtime pay.

The administration’s regulatory legacy has become an issue in the campaign to replace Mr. Obama, as Donald J. Trump has sharply criticized regulatory overreach and promised to undo many of the new rules. But executive power has expanded steadily under both Republican and Democratic presidents in recent decades, and both Mr. Trump and Hillary Clinton have promised to act in the service of their own goals.

The new rules built on the legislative victories Mr. Obama won during his first two years in office. Those laws — the Affordable Care Act, the Dodd-Frank Act and the $800 billion economic stimulus package — transformed the nation’s health care system, curbed the ambitions of the big banks and injected financial support into a creaky economy. But as Republicans increased their control of Capitol Hill, Mr. Obama’s deep frustration with congressional opposition led to a new approach: He gradually embraced a president’s power to act unilaterally.

History may now judge the regulations to be one of Mr. Obama’s most enduring legacies. At the least, his exercise of administrative power expanded and cemented a domestic legacy that now rivals Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society in reach and scope.

In May, Mr. Obama was asked by a farmer in Elkhart, Ind., to justify the “dramatic increase” in government regulations that affected his business. “I’m not interested in regulating just for the sake of regulating,” Mr. Obama responded. “But there are some things like making sure we’ve got clean air and clean water, making sure that folks have health insurance, making sure that worker safety is a priority — that, I do think, is part of our overall obligation.”

Infuriated Republicans describe many of the new rules as unwarranted, resulting in “less jobs, less businesses, less prosperity, lower take-home pay,” in the words of the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan. Business groups, also incensed, have challenged a number of new regulations in court, delaying them or preventing them from taking effect. Some economic experts worry that the accumulation of regulation is contributing to the economy’s persistent sluggishness.

“The big issue that I grapple with is that the regulatory state keeps growing,” said Robert Hahn, an economist and a regulatory expert at the Smith School at the University of Oxford. “And as it keeps growing, when does it become too much?”


.....


mobile.nytimes.com

Should really read the rest of it, if for other reason than to see just how in love with this the writers are.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
RubickPicker
Profile Joined October 2015
United States332 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 07:38:52
August 14 2016 07:38 GMT
#94710
Late reply, but still...

On August 13 2016 15:11 Atreides wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2016 13:50 RubickPicker wrote:
He wants to destroy Obamacare but said once that "people won't be dying in the streets" but his paperwork basically calls for a return to the employer-dependent system we had before and the only assistance being tax credits. That's the same crap McCain and Romney.


The ACA still doesn't do a single thing besides offer me tax credits either as far as assistance goes. Except that now instead of at least 4 providers in my state to choose from I have 1 and it is over twice as expensive.

I'm sorry to hear it didn't work for you. It worked for me in my state, though other people in my state who got into some fly by night co-ops set up on the exchange wound up out of luck, and others were caught up in red tape hell by the contractors the state hired to run the exchange's IT until it gave up, fired them all, and applied for the Feds to handle their signups through healthcare.gov.

I have Doctor visits and medications at no cost that I didn't have before.

That said, I seem to remember when Obama was running that the primary difference between his proposal and the GOP's was that Obama's tax credit subsidies for healthcare were refundable (if they completely erase your tax burden, the government writes you a check for the excess remainder) while McCain/Romney/etc always proposed non-refundable tax credits (once your health care refund reduces your taxes to $0, that's it, so if your health care costs exceed your tax bill you're upside-down.)
* N U K E D *
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
August 14 2016 07:54 GMT
#94711
On August 14 2016 08:54 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2016 08:48 Bagration wrote:
Going to be honest, this election cycle is really making me question the merits of democracy in the USA. You have so many low-intellect voters - to believe any of the garbage that Trump is spewing out should be a disqualifying factor.

In theory, democracy only works well when you have an informed population - which clearly is not the case here.


there's a rather long list of quotes of the known flaws with democracy. and the populace is smarter than it used to be.
it used to be less informed. and people have always been stupid (comparatively speaking at least)
There are some ways to improve the system of course.

People are no more informed than before. They just have the potential to be more informed. But just like any potential, it needs effort to be fulfilled.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Shingi11
Profile Joined May 2016
290 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 08:13:50
August 14 2016 08:13 GMT
#94712
So i just want to fathom how trump's thought process on running. He is down badly in almost every comparative battle ground state and is also slipping in red to deep red states. So with all that you know what that screams to trump "I should go campaign in blue Connecticut". I just dont get it.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11367 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 08:28:53
August 14 2016 08:22 GMT
#94713
Maybe the best defence is a good offence? Or perhaps you cannot acknowledge that you are behind lest it become self fulfilling and you bleed support even faster? So then you behave as you though are ahead.

I guess the question is- does the move seem like Trump being aggressive... what is it called bullish? Or does it seem so out of touch with the facts on the ground that seems more of a Hail Mary. Depends on your perspective I guess.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 11:19:32
August 14 2016 11:13 GMT
#94714
On August 14 2016 12:26 Nyxisto wrote:
I guess that he's a lot less wealthy than he claims to be. If it would just be lower tax rates he'd probably brag about it like he did when it turned out that he has stuff manufactured in China (although that's nothing to brag about either really).

Na, what his tax return shows is how he - most likely - undervalue everything he has, something all politician do but not at his level.

Would be fun knowing the perceived value of the Trump tower and such assets.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
LemOn
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United Kingdom8629 Posts
August 14 2016 11:47 GMT
#94715
Yeah it's about taxes where he undervalues everything on purpose to show lower profit that leads to lower tax - a standard practice in business.
If I were him I wouldn't release them, he can always go on attack for Hillary to release her goldman sachs etc. speech transcripts and emails
Much is the father figure that I miss in my life. Go Daddy! DoC.LemOn, LemOn[5thF]
saocyn
Profile Joined July 2011
United States937 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 12:19:32
August 14 2016 12:13 GMT
#94716
i'm Pro trump and well, his arguments are really bland and repetitive at this point. The model of speech he uses was great but now it seems overplayed and redundant. The way he addresses hillary seems to be the exact same issues he bashed her on earlier, there is seldom anything new despite him investing his entire campaign on being anti-democratic.

and whitedog hit it on the head. If it were found out he manufactured from china, BUT even ONE of those instances when he did was unfavorable or wasn't at the very least more beneficial to americans, it would undermine his stance on, well everything....he builds his campaign as being a strong leader who will be harder on china through the fact he's a top of the line negotiator and will always come out on top of trade deals with them. and from what i've seen of his career, he has amazing connections one after another in every single state. his wife plagiarizing a speech might just be the axe in his career. he's a great speaker, regardless of what political side you're on, he gets results, but it's almost distasteful that his wife didn't have the time or took the effort to at least learn to do the same. i mean she has to an extent, but to fall for plagiarism of all things... at the very minimum learn how to mask it with your own words or ways of saying it. when i heard his stance against porn...let's just say i wasn't jumping with joy.

his team seemed so savy and informed, and now while on defense, can't seem to muster up any good counter arguments...
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9135 Posts
August 14 2016 12:40 GMT
#94717
On August 14 2016 17:13 Shingi11 wrote:
So i just want to fathom how trump's thought process on running. He is down badly in almost every comparative battle ground state and is also slipping in red to deep red states. So with all that you know what that screams to trump "I should go campaign in blue Connecticut". I just dont get it.

Well he does get his news from places like Breitbart and Infowars, just like his fanbase, wouldn't be surprised if he really thought he's winning and MSM is rigging all the polls.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4935 Posts
August 14 2016 12:40 GMT
#94718
If you find Trump to be a great speaker, then we have very different definitions of what a great speaker is. Using easy words for the public to so they can understand and finally identify or using them because you don't know any multi-syllable words, is a significant difference and I'm not sure Trump has the actual intelligence to pull off the former.
Taxes are for Terrans
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
August 14 2016 14:53 GMT
#94719
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-14 15:01:32
August 14 2016 15:00 GMT
#94720
On August 14 2016 23:53 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/764802517817581571

Who will have the guts to actually remove all police from the black neighborhoods I wonder ?

The BLM and all the people pissed at the police/judiciary system have a legitimate reason to feel this way, but, at the moment, they dont seem to have the necessary nuance to actually find a compromise with the government.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
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