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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 26 2013 11:18 sam!zdat wrote: fuck hilary give me elizabeth I like her spunk and attitude, but I think I'd rather see her heading a department or as the Chairwoman to an important committee (or maybe Senate leadership?).
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Having Warren on the ticket with Clinton would be odd. Would be best to have like Castro on it with Hillary to raise turnout amongst Latinos and have a chance at Texas.
Though, I'm not sold on Hillary from a policy perspective. Not liberal enough for me :p
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too liberal! Clintons just a bunch of running dog liberals like the rest of them! Fuck clintons and their dynastic ambition
User was warned for this post
I don't understand. I think I might be gone again soon guys. Have fun without me.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I meant liberal as in politically leftist.
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WASHINGTON -- Now comes the waiting.
With the Senate set to dispatch an always-futile effort to pass government funding legislation that defunds the president's health care law, lawmakers in both chambers of Congress are already considering the options before them.
Lawmakers moved hastily to talks on Wednesday -- just hours after Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) ended a 21-hour-plus speech meant to encourage lawmakers to support the defunding effort -- with attention focused on two offices.
House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) hold most of the power in the remaining few days of a government shutdown showdown before the government runs out of money to operate at the end of September. Republican aides in both chambers feel that Boehner's hand has been strengthened by Cruz's inability to move the debate in the Senate. But they caution that Reid could still gum up any House plans by keeping Senate Democrats united.
That's why four separate senior aides from both chambers say they would be very surprised if Boehner turned around and tried to craft another short-term continuing resolution that sought major changes to the president's health care law.
On Tuesday night, reports emerged that House Republicans were considering adding a one-year delay to the law's individual mandate in their next legislative offer. But sources on the Hill quickly put a stop to the suggestions.
One top GOP aide said putting that provision into the next draft of a continuing resolution (CR) to fund the government was not "at all likely," in part because the party has already decided to make a delay to the mandate a part of their proposal for lifting the debt ceiling in mid-October.
Source
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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On September 26 2013 05:13 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 18:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 18:38 IgnE wrote: He took breaks. Disqualified. Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time. Dude read _Green and Eggs Ham_ with no irony and was reading tweets. Stop confusing people who don't know better. Oh no, he read a goodnight story to his two young daughters? How terrible. And by the way, he tied Green Eggs and Ham to Obamacare, technically on-topic.
The tweets were about Obamacare and only read if they had the hashtag: MakeDCListen, so they were absolutely about Obamacare and about the speech he was giving; also he commented on the tweets as he read them. So yeah, he definitely stayed on topic and about Obamacare the entire time. And he only read tweets for maybe 2 hours (if you combine all the time doing so in total).
Dude, I watched the entire thing. Don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
+ Show Spoiler +Still waiting for that 21 hour video
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On September 26 2013 12:10 oneofthem wrote: jill stein is superior
jill and elizabeth lube wrestling on the front lawn of the white house... Oh please baby jesus make it happen
edit: anyway, I actually VOTED for jill stein, unlike you lazy asshole
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On September 26 2013 07:30 BioNova wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 05:18 IgnE wrote:On September 26 2013 05:14 Jormundr wrote:On September 26 2013 05:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 26 2013 04:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So after all that talk, not a filibuster but a hope in delaying cloture, Cruz votes Yes on Cloture.... This vote was entirely meaningless, as I'm sure your aware. It was a test vote. The final vote comes later. Stop trying to confuse people who don't know better. So was his filibuster. I mean you don't want another Romney on your hands, do you? He's getting to be a mite inconsistent and we're nowhere near the election season. To be fair, he is nothing like Romney. It remains to be seen who he is. There is a large segment of the libertarian wing who flat out don't like him. This lil snip comes from the DailyPaul. Show nested quote +- Senator Cruz was born in Canada, and thus automatically a Canadian citizen. Cruz's father was born in 1939 in Matanzas, Cuba, his mother born in Wilmington, Delaware. Cruz announced that he is renouncing his Canadian citizenship. [See “natural born citizen” as required by Article II, Section I, Clause 5 of the US Constitution for President and by the 12th Amendment for Vice President.]
- In 1998, Cruz served as private counsel for Congressman John Boehner during Boehner’s lawsuit against Congressman Jim McDermott for releasing a tape recording of a Boehner telephone conversation.
- Cruz joined the Bush–Cheney campaign in 1999 as a domestic policy adviser, advising President George W. Bush on a wide range of policy and legal matters, including civil justice, criminal justice, constitutional law, immigration, and government reform. There he met his wife, Heidi Nelson Cruz, another policy adviser who works for Goldman Sachs.
- Cruz assisted in assembling the Bush legal team, devise strategy, and draft pleadings in the Florida and U.S. Supreme Courts during the 2000 Florida presidential recounts, winning twice in the U.S. Supreme Court.
- After President Bush took office, Cruz served as an associate deputy attorney general in the U.S. Justice Department and as the director of policy planning at the U.S. Federal Trade Commission.
- George P. Bush, the nephew of former President George W. Bush, endorsed Cruz for U.S. Senate.
"Ted is the future of the Republican Party," Bush said in a statement. "He is a proven conservative, and his personal story embodies the American Dream. Like Marco Rubio in Florida, I am confident that Ted will inspire a new generation of leaders to stand up and defend American Exceptionalism."
- Heidi Cruz, who graduated Phi Beta Kappa with a B.A. in economics and international relations from CMC in 1994, is a vice president in the Private Wealth Management Group at Goldman Sachs, Texas. She and her two partners work with clients to implement high net worth portfolios across a range of investments and asset classes, including complex derivatives products, private equity, hedge funds, single stock risk management, U.S. and international equities, and fixed income.
- Ms. Cruz began her career as an investment banker with JPMorgan in New York, focusing on international structured finance and subsequently on Latin America mergers and acquisitions.
- In 2000, she served on the Bush 2000 Campaign in Austin as one of President George W. Bush's three economic advisors. She also served in the Administration as the economic director for the Western Hemisphere at the National Security Council at the White House, advising the President and then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. She also is a former director at the U.S. Treasury Department and was special policy assistant to Ambassador Robert B. Zoellick, then Chief U.S. international trade negotiator.
- Heidi Cruz is a Term Member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).
I don't see him as a serious 2016 contender when he get's drilled like this in his own circles. He's mud in the water. Ron Paul libertarians are not a significant wing of the party, or the conservative movement. The beat-down Ron Paul took in the primary proves that Tea-Party Republicans and Establishment Republicans are still the top-dogs in the race, with the Establishment winning out in the last election (Romney). However, Romney's move to the right after (and immediately before) receiving the nomination was definitely a sign that the Tea Party group is growing in strength and influence. Ted Cruz has established himself as the leader of the political Tea Party right now, so if he can keep that momentum, he will definitely be a force in 2016 if he runs. I predict a three-way battle between him, Paul, and Christie, with the establishment backing Christie.
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On September 26 2013 12:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 05:13 IgnE wrote:On September 25 2013 18:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 18:38 IgnE wrote: He took breaks. Disqualified. Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time. Dude read _Green and Eggs Ham_ with no irony and was reading tweets. Stop confusing people who don't know better. Oh no, he read a goodnight story to his two young daughters? How terrible. And by the way, he tied Green Eggs and Ham to Obamacare, technically on-topic. The tweets were about Obamacare and only read if they had the hashtag: MakeDCListen, so they were absolutely about Obamacare and about the speech he was giving; also he commented on the tweets as he read them. So yeah, he definitely stayed on topic and about Obamacare the entire time. And he only read tweets for maybe 2 hours (if you combine all the time doing so in total). Dude, I watched the entire thing. Don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. + Show Spoiler +Still waiting for that 21 hour video
I didn't say you didn't know what you were talking about. I said you were lying.
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On September 26 2013 11:33 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 10:44 Danglars wrote:On September 26 2013 01:29 farvacola wrote:Lol "starting to agree with him". Nice try Danglars, but we all know that your camp abandoned Christie the moment he agreed to take a walk with Obama post hurricane  It was actually when he refused to sign on with other country governors opposing Obamacare. He made a political calculation and the result soured him in many of our minds. That is not to say he is leagues ahead of McCain and Romney. Without the stands that Tea Party representatives have been making, he would've been in the front or close to it in the pool for 2016 candidates. Lee & Cruz have captured the heart of the movement, Chris Christie is yesterday's news with his hardball on unions. On September 26 2013 05:13 IgnE wrote:On September 25 2013 18:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 18:38 IgnE wrote: He took breaks. Disqualified. Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time. Dude read _Green and Eggs Ham_ with no irony and was reading tweets. Stop confusing people who don't know better. He scored a few laughs there. A few of those tweets were pretty good, "If it's bad for Congress, they have no right to force it on their constituents." Step away from the talking points and listen to a half hour of the raw speech, not just the parts others want you to characterize the whole speech by. He took apart Obamacare in all its aspects of failure. The real crazies in the party are the birthers and their ilk. This goes for every person that can't comprehend a birth from an American citizen that was a citizen at his birth. The Council on Foreign Relations and John Birch Society types aren't big players. @GOP Sick of our employees deluding themselves into believing they are our bosses. #MakeDCListen #KeepCruzing #DefundObamacare — Tammy Smith (@theyhaunt1235) September 25, 2013 That one is particularly aptly put. Public "servants" voting back in their cushy health plans because they can't hack Obamacare health policies with their own 6-digit income. Make up rules to affect everyone else and exempt them? Sounds like political bosses to me.
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On September 26 2013 12:20 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 07:30 BioNova wrote:On September 26 2013 05:18 IgnE wrote:On September 26 2013 05:14 Jormundr wrote:On September 26 2013 05:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 26 2013 04:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So after all that talk, not a filibuster but a hope in delaying cloture, Cruz votes Yes on Cloture.... This vote was entirely meaningless, as I'm sure your aware. It was a test vote. The final vote comes later. Stop trying to confuse people who don't know better. So was his filibuster. I mean you don't want another Romney on your hands, do you? He's getting to be a mite inconsistent and we're nowhere near the election season. To be fair, he is nothing like Romney. It remains to be seen who he is. There is a large segment of the libertarian wing who flat out don't like him. This lil snip comes from the DailyPaul. - Senator Cruz was born in Canada, and thus automatically a Canadian citizen. Cruz's father was born in 1939 in Matanzas, Cuba, his mother born in Wilmington, Delaware. Cruz announced that he is renouncing his Canadian citizenship. [See “natural born citizen” as required by Article II, Section I, Clause 5 of the US Constitution for President and by the 12th Amendment for Vice President.]
- In 1998, Cruz served as private counsel for Congressman John Boehner during Boehner’s lawsuit against Congressman Jim McDermott for releasing a tape recording of a Boehner telephone conversation.
- Cruz joined the Bush–Cheney campaign in 1999 as a domestic policy adviser, advising President George W. Bush on a wide range of policy and legal matters, including civil justice, criminal justice, constitutional law, immigration, and government reform. There he met his wife, Heidi Nelson Cruz, another policy adviser who works for Goldman Sachs.
- Cruz assisted in assembling the Bush legal team, devise strategy, and draft pleadings in the Florida and U.S. Supreme Courts during the 2000 Florida presidential recounts, winning twice in the U.S. Supreme Court.
- After President Bush took office, Cruz served as an associate deputy attorney general in the U.S. Justice Department and as the director of policy planning at the U.S. Federal Trade Commission.
- George P. Bush, the nephew of former President George W. Bush, endorsed Cruz for U.S. Senate.
"Ted is the future of the Republican Party," Bush said in a statement. "He is a proven conservative, and his personal story embodies the American Dream. Like Marco Rubio in Florida, I am confident that Ted will inspire a new generation of leaders to stand up and defend American Exceptionalism."
- Heidi Cruz, who graduated Phi Beta Kappa with a B.A. in economics and international relations from CMC in 1994, is a vice president in the Private Wealth Management Group at Goldman Sachs, Texas. She and her two partners work with clients to implement high net worth portfolios across a range of investments and asset classes, including complex derivatives products, private equity, hedge funds, single stock risk management, U.S. and international equities, and fixed income.
- Ms. Cruz began her career as an investment banker with JPMorgan in New York, focusing on international structured finance and subsequently on Latin America mergers and acquisitions.
- In 2000, she served on the Bush 2000 Campaign in Austin as one of President George W. Bush's three economic advisors. She also served in the Administration as the economic director for the Western Hemisphere at the National Security Council at the White House, advising the President and then-National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice. She also is a former director at the U.S. Treasury Department and was special policy assistant to Ambassador Robert B. Zoellick, then Chief U.S. international trade negotiator.
- Heidi Cruz is a Term Member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).
I don't see him as a serious 2016 contender when he get's drilled like this in his own circles. He's mud in the water. Ron Paul libertarians are not a significant wing of the party, or the conservative movement. The beat-down Ron Paul took in the primary proves that Tea-Party Republicans and Establishment Republicans are still the top-dogs in the race, with the Establishment winning out in the last election (Romney). However, Romney's move to the right after (and immediately before) receiving the nomination was definitely a sign that the Tea Party group is growing in strength and influence. Ted Cruz has established himself as the leader of the political Tea Party right now, so if he can keep that momentum, he will definitely be a force in 2016 if he runs. I predict a three-way battle between him, Paul, and Christie, with the establishment backing Christie. Establishment also really went into overdrive eliminating potential tea party hopefuls. Herman Cain came with baggage, Rick Perry fought in a field dominated by Herman Cain. It wasn't a clean win for the establishment, because their candidates didn't come close to the vibrancy that surrounded the conservative candidate hopefuls. Romney ended with receiving less votes than McCain, some of which is disillusionment running Romneycare against Obamacare.
A lot of things can happen between now and 2016 primary time. I'm reserving my predictions for much much closer.
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On September 26 2013 05:14 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 05:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 26 2013 04:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So after all that talk, not a filibuster but a hope in delaying cloture, Cruz votes Yes on Cloture.... This vote was entirely meaningless, as I'm sure your aware. It was a test vote. The final vote comes later. Stop trying to confuse people who don't know better. So was his filibuster. I mean you don't want another Romney on your hands, do you? He's getting to be a mite inconsistent and we're nowhere near the election season. I don't think Cruz is gonna become a Romney. Because he isn't a serious presidential candidate. He isn't a natural born citizen, which excludes him from holding the office of President.
Edit: Actually, I'm uninformed. It looks like I'm gonna have to do some reading on the natural-born citizen clause. Apparently it's debatable what it means, so I'm gonna have to withdraw this comment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen
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On September 26 2013 14:28 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 05:14 Jormundr wrote:On September 26 2013 05:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 26 2013 04:39 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: So after all that talk, not a filibuster but a hope in delaying cloture, Cruz votes Yes on Cloture.... This vote was entirely meaningless, as I'm sure your aware. It was a test vote. The final vote comes later. Stop trying to confuse people who don't know better. So was his filibuster. I mean you don't want another Romney on your hands, do you? He's getting to be a mite inconsistent and we're nowhere near the election season. I don't think Cruz is gonna become a Romney. Because he isn't a serious presidential candidate. He isn't a natural born citizen, which excludes him from holding the office of President. Edit: Actually, I'm probably uninformed. It looks like I'm gonna have to do some reading on the natural-born citizen clause.
He was reborn in Christ in the US of A.
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On September 26 2013 10:44 Danglars wrote: He scored a few laughs there. A few of those tweets were pretty good, "If it's bad for Congress, they have no right to force it on their constituents." This is evidence of the epic confusion that has been brewed up on Obamacare. The premise of this attack is entirely wrong.
Obamacare requires everyone get health insurance or pay a fine. Members of Congress already have health insurance, so how does it make any sense to say that Obamacare is bad for Congress and that Congress has exempted themselves out of Obamacare?
No, like other people with employer-based insurance, Obamacare simply doesn't have any effect on them. This attack from Cruz simply makes no sense.
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That comes as small consolation to people employed by companies that are subject to going out of business, laying off workers to cope with the extra Obamacare costs, or moving them to part-time for the costs as well. People have already been dropped from their health plans, or had their premium costs skyrocket as a result of Obamacare. They already had health insurance, but Obamacare means they no longer have it or can afford the plan they like. Companies are dropping spousal coverage (As UPS announced) for working spouses that may already apply for health insurance with their other company. Can't keep the plan you like? Too bad.
Except if you work for the Feds. They won't force you part-time, they won't go out of business, and they'll exempt themselves from the requirements already hurting companies. The PPACA is a disaster, and that's one thing the Teamster's Union and I can agree on.
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On September 26 2013 18:20 Danglars wrote: That comes as small consolation to people employed by companies that are subject to going out of business, laying off workers to cope with the extra Obamacare costs, or moving them to part-time for the costs as well. People have already been dropped from their health plans, or had their premium costs skyrocket as a result of Obamacare. They already had health insurance, but Obamacare means they no longer have it or can afford the plan they like. Companies are dropping spousal coverage (As UPS announced) for working spouses that may already apply for health insurance with their other company. Can't keep the plan you like? Too bad.
Except if you work for the Feds. They won't force you part-time, they won't go out of business, and they'll exempt themselves from the requirements already hurting companies. The PPACA is a disaster, and that's one thing the Teamster's Union and I can agree on.
Oh shit, a piece of legislation doesn't have universally positive effects? Better drop it entirely!
I think the entire argument is stupid. Obamacare, implemented properly, has a positive economic (and more importantly if you ask me, social) gain. Saying that some employers are going to lay off people in the immidiate future is pretty fucking irrelevant to me. Why? Because the job market will stabilize. The propaganda machine coming out from big business seems to be doing really good work though. I mean imagine looking passed your own borders and seeing the very systems being discussed (or ones very similar to it) in action.
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On September 26 2013 18:20 Danglars wrote: That comes as small consolation to people employed by companies that are subject to going out of business, laying off workers to cope with the extra Obamacare costs, or moving them to part-time for the costs as well. People have already been dropped from their health plans, or had their premium costs skyrocket as a result of Obamacare. They already had health insurance, but Obamacare means they no longer have it or can afford the plan they like. Companies are dropping spousal coverage (As UPS announced) for working spouses that may already apply for health insurance with their other company. Can't keep the plan you like? Too bad.
Except if you work for the Feds. They won't force you part-time, they won't go out of business, and they'll exempt themselves from the requirements already hurting companies. The PPACA is a disaster, and that's one thing the Teamster's Union and I can agree on. That wasn't the subject.
Large businesses mostly already offer health insurance, so in that regard nothing changes and there's no reason Obamacare incentivizes dropping insurance. For small businesses, most are eligible to get subsidies to buy insurance for workers. Businesses can cut full time workers to under 50 so that they are not required by Obamacare to buy insurance for their employees, but the evidence for this actually happening is very weak as explained here.
But what should you do if you happen to be part of this extremely small amount of people who's employer seemingly for no reason happened to drop your health insurance? Then you can buy insurance on the exchanges, possibly with subsidies depending on your situation. The point is everyone can buy insurance at cheap and affordable prices now whereas that was not possible for many people who are without jobs or with preexisting conditions or who have used too much healthcare services already. Universal healthcare is a great thing.
Also, the whole idea of getting health insurance from employers is an American quirk that has evolved over time. From an objective point of view, this is quite stupid, there's absolutely no reason getting health care should be tied to being with the same employer.
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In return for a one-year suspension of the debt ceiling, House Republicans are demanding a yearlong delay of Obamacare, Rep. Paul Ryan’s tax reform plan, the Keystone XL pipeline, more offshore oil drilling, more drilling on federally protected lands, rewriting of ash coal regulations, a suspension of the Environmental Protection Agency’s efforts to regulate carbon emissions, more power over the regulatory process in general, reform of the federal employee retirement program, an overhaul of the Dodd-Frank financial regulations, more power over the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s budget, repeal of the Social Services Block Grant, more means-testing in Medicare, repeal of the Public Health trust fund, and more.
It's tempting to think that this is Boehner teaching his conference a lesson. They told him what they wanted, and he's going to let them have it -- good and hard. House Republicans are walking into the debt-ceiling negotiations with an opening bid that makes them look ridiculous. This looks like an Onion parody of what the House's debt-ceiling demands might be. It's a wonder it's not written in comic sans. Source (Bold emphasis mine.)
Normally, I don't source stuff like this, but that last line was such a great burn that I couldn't help myself.
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I don't even understand what is happening anymore. Legislators are refusing to legislate, people are pretending to filibuster their own goddamn bills, and elected officials are blatantly and admittedly destroying the economy.
How is this possible?
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