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On September 25 2013 12:37 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 12:34 Jormundr wrote:On September 25 2013 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:
[quote]
Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them. Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable. I agree. It's dumb to ask why when it's obvious he's just min maxing his political cred later on without actually having to do anything against Obamacare. A true politician and patriot. What exactly do you expect him to do? He, sadly, is not a dictator who can force the Senate to vote against Obamacare. What he's doing is two things: 1. Taking a stand against Obamacare (thus increasing his political value) 2. Shaming Republicans who are going to cave on Obamacare (thus lowering their political power). Neither of those are wrong or disingenuous on his part. He's done all he can, and is doing the only thing left to him. 9 hours in and he's still going. I applaud his consistency here.
Oh yes, he's a true american hero.
1. He wrote a bill defunding Obamacare. OH WAIT sorry, he didn't
2. He convinced enough members of the senate to vote for it that it could pass. Oh he didn't do that either?
Listen to yourself. In the overall picture of the republican war effort he's basically just nudged a little sand in front of the oncoming tanks and then spent nine hours telling everyone about how great it was that he did it.
But I guess he does deserve credit for breathing on the taxpayer dollar, so I'll give him that.
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On September 25 2013 12:49 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 12:37 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 12:34 Jormundr wrote:On September 25 2013 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:
[quote]
You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them. Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable. I agree. It's dumb to ask why when it's obvious he's just min maxing his political cred later on without actually having to do anything against Obamacare. A true politician and patriot. What exactly do you expect him to do? He, sadly, is not a dictator who can force the Senate to vote against Obamacare. What he's doing is two things: 1. Taking a stand against Obamacare (thus increasing his political value) 2. Shaming Republicans who are going to cave on Obamacare (thus lowering their political power). Neither of those are wrong or disingenuous on his part. He's done all he can, and is doing the only thing left to him. 9 hours in and he's still going. I applaud his consistency here. Oh yes, he's a true american hero. 1. He wrote a bill defunding Obamacare. OH WAIT sorry, he didn't
He helped get that bill through the House... Why should he write another one? You're not making any sense.
2. He convinced enough members of the senate to vote for it that it could pass. Oh he didn't do that either?
Now he needs to be a mind-controller? He needs to be able to make people do something they won't do? What exactly do you expect from him that is realistic and not nonsensical?
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On September 25 2013 12:53 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 12:49 Jormundr wrote:On September 25 2013 12:37 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 12:34 Jormundr wrote:On September 25 2013 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:
[quote]
The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them. Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable. I agree. It's dumb to ask why when it's obvious he's just min maxing his political cred later on without actually having to do anything against Obamacare. A true politician and patriot. What exactly do you expect him to do? He, sadly, is not a dictator who can force the Senate to vote against Obamacare. What he's doing is two things: 1. Taking a stand against Obamacare (thus increasing his political value) 2. Shaming Republicans who are going to cave on Obamacare (thus lowering their political power). Neither of those are wrong or disingenuous on his part. He's done all he can, and is doing the only thing left to him. 9 hours in and he's still going. I applaud his consistency here. Oh yes, he's a true american hero. 1. He wrote a bill defunding Obamacare. OH WAIT sorry, he didn't He helped get that bill through the House... Why should he write another one? You're not making any sense. Show nested quote +2. He convinced enough members of the senate to vote for it that it could pass. Oh he didn't do that either? Now he needs to be a mind-controller? He needs to be able to make people do something they won't do? What exactly do you expect from him that is realistic and not nonsensical?
Fair enough about point 2.
Unfortunately that invalidates your point one, as you say that he can't make people do something they don't want to do. Therefore he didn't help the bill get through the house because they did so because they wanted to, not because he convinced them.
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I wish we had a rule that anyone who wants to filibuster has to do it on acid
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sam, how did you become so brilliant?
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United States41117 Posts
*golfclap*
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) negotiated the terms of his lengthy speech Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) a day early, according to Reid's spokesman.
Source
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On September 25 2013 10:15 DoubleReed wrote:First of all, why are we comparing -$2,500/year to +$7,450/8years? Second of all, -$2,500/year is referring to premiums for a typical family of four. +$7,450/8years is talking about net health spending, from your own source: Show nested quote +By 2022, the ACA is projected to reduce the number of uninsured people by 30 million, add approximately 0.1 percentage-point to average annual health spending growth over the full projection period, and increase cumulative health spending by roughly $621 billion. He then uses a dubious methodology to get from $621 billion to $7,450person/8years So that's just an obvious example of apples and oranges. Third of all, it's not as if premiums for everyone will go down in Obamacare. That's not what is supposed to happen. It's a subsidy. The richer and healthier will pay more and the poorer and unhealthier will pay less. And the number of "losers" in this healthcare bill is projected to be smaller and smaller the more we see of it. I'm sorry but this is quite disingenuous. Is this really how you argue? Why not just look at actual studies like from the CBO of how much it will cost people? I don't even know why you brought up the $2,500 figure, honestly. It really has nothing to do with my point. Obama can be lying, deceitful sack of crap and that doesn't mean Obamacare is going to make premiums rise. That doesn't mean that the projections for Obamacare haven't been more positive as it's been rolled out. Let's just compare apples with apples. There's no reason to do anything else.
Obama divided what his economists were calling $200 billion dollars saved in national health care spending a year by population, multiplied by family of four, and rounded to get his $2500 in savings per family. It was never premiums, it was his (horribly off) forecast of health care savings. It is comparing the same thing, apples to apples. Read all about it. He called it premiums but it included other kinds of health care spending.
Premiums are going up. The CBO says the increase wasn't as big as their first estimates, but there's still an increase, and in some states that increase is high. His pre-existing condition insurance plan has had costs skyrocket beyond their estimates, and that's with enrollment under their estimates. There's a lot to be critical of in the results of Obamacare; and premiums and PCIP are amongst them. The slowdown in the increase comes as small consolation to families that can expect costs to rise around $600 this next year.
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On September 25 2013 13:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:*golfclap* Show nested quote +Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) negotiated the terms of his lengthy speech Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) a day early, according to Reid's spokesman. Source
More dishonesty:
That’s because, according to a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid, Cruz approached Reid privately on the floor requesting the time to talk. And when no other Senator objected, Reid allowed it.
He didn't "negotiate the terms" of his speech. He asked for time to speak...
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On September 25 2013 13:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 13:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:*golfclap* Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) negotiated the terms of his lengthy speech Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) a day early, according to Reid's spokesman. Source More dishonesty: Show nested quote +That’s because, according to a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid, Cruz approached Reid privately on the floor requesting the time to talk. And when no other Senator objected, Reid allowed it. He didn't "negotiate the terms" of his speech. He asked for time to speak...
But the talking points said differently!!!!
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On September 25 2013 13:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 13:11 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:*golfclap* Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) negotiated the terms of his lengthy speech Tuesday with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) a day early, according to Reid's spokesman. Source More dishonesty: Show nested quote +That’s because, according to a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid, Cruz approached Reid privately on the floor requesting the time to talk. And when no other Senator objected, Reid allowed it. He didn't "negotiate the terms" of his speech. He asked for time to speak...
What? Isn't it possible that he did both?
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Who gives a shit? The reality is that Reid and the democrats are all too happy to let Cruz pull this stunt because they believe that they'll benefit politically from it.
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You apparently give a shit.
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On September 25 2013 14:21 IgnE wrote:
You apparently give a shit.
I really don't. I'm just feeling surly enough to comment on the amusing commentary around here. Some very obvious points are being missed.
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On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:
I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category.
You're all liberals to me (and sami) 
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Cruz is about to pass 14 hours...
Say what you want about him, this is intense.
edit: almost 15 hours now. BOSS!
edit: past 16 hours. Rubio has taken over for now, giving Cruz and Lee a well-deserved break.
edit: Coming up on 17 hours. Still going strong. Oh and #MakeDCListen and #KeepCruzing are top trends for the US.
edit: about to pass 18 hours. If he keeps this up he'll take the fourth place spot for longest recorded Senate Speech, and will be 1-2 hours (maybe less) from taking the third place spot. Bet most of you went to sleep tonight and had dinner.
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He took breaks. Disqualified.
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On September 25 2013 18:38 IgnE wrote:
He took breaks. Disqualified.
He's remained on his feet the entire time. And the "breaks he took" were Mike Lee (who has also been up this whole time) asking a question and then Cruz answering it.
Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time.
Here, you make a video of you standing, talking, for 15+hours with no food, no bathroom breaks, no sitting, no real walking, and only one or two friends to sometimes chime in for a minute or two, and then you can criticize Cruz.
I'll be waiting for that video.
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On September 25 2013 18:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:He's remained on his feet the entire time. And the "breaks he took" were Mike Lee (who has also been up this whole time) asking a question and then Cruz answering it. Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time. Here, you make a video of you standing, talking, for 15+hours with no food, no bathroom breaks, no sitting, no real walking, and only one or two friends to sometimes chime in for a minute or two, and then you can criticize Cruz. I'll be waiting for that video.
lots of laughs, not that hard
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Wow, so Cruz is still going. On a roll... to prevent millions of Americans getting health insurance, to allow health insurers to deny coverage to people with preexisting conditions. Because it's been proven in all the countries around the world that has successfully tried it, universal healthcare is the end of freedom itself.
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On September 25 2013 18:42 sc2superfan101 wrote:He's remained on his feet the entire time. And the "breaks he took" were Mike Lee (who has also been up this whole time) asking a question and then Cruz answering it. Oh, and he wasn't reading recipes from his Grandma's recipe book either or reciting the phone book. He's been talking about Obamacare this entire time. Here, you make a video of you standing, talking, for 15+hours with no food, no bathroom breaks, no sitting, no real walking, and only one or two friends to sometimes chime in for a minute or two, and then you can criticize Cruz. I'll be waiting for that video.
I caught some of it on CSPAN radio, and man was it funny. I loved it. The several stories about his dad and the revolution against Batista. Washing dishes catching pigs. Rolling over legs in the buick oldsmobile. The analogy with stripping out language from a serviceman's bill and inserting Obamacare.
How about that outside-the-beltway perspective? When he says the American people have been frustrated by nobody representing their interests, he's damn right. Hits the job killing aspects and the double standard for staffers. It's a bill so great, it would be a shame to apply it to our own offices. Drudge said on Twitter that Ted Cruz and Rand Paul have taken over the heart of the party, that Christie is now going to be waging an uphill battle. I'm starting to agree with him.
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EPT
