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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lol every google picture of ted cruz looks like a huge ass
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On September 24 2013 22:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 22:01 DoubleReed wrote:
Why do people say it will raise costs right after I link to two CBO studies saying the exact opposite? Different cost definitions, I think. e.g. the cost of healthcare overall is different from premium costs or costs to the government.
You mean cost as a share of GDP? It's going to lower that too.
I have no idea where people are getting the idea that Obamacare is going to be a failure (except in red states where the medicaid may be blocked). The only people saying that are groups like the Heritage Foundation. It's the right wing bubble issue all over again. It seems like it's going to be better than we expected on all fronts.
This actually makes sense politically. After all, if Obamacare would really be a failure, then Republicans would let it go through and they can be all like "I told you so!" and win elections. Instead, they're doing everything in their power to not let it go through, because what they're really terrified of is that it will be a massive success.
I think it's funny that Ted Cruz is being attacked and being labeled a traitor just for recognizing the reality of the situation. Acknowledging reality is a absolute no-no in the republican party.
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On September 25 2013 04:15 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 03:52 aksfjh wrote:On September 25 2013 03:45 sam!zdat wrote:On September 24 2013 22:01 DoubleReed wrote:
Why do people say it will raise costs right after I link to two CBO studies saying the exact opposite?
Healthcare without pre-existing conditions is idiotic and pointless. Its like healthcare without cancer treatment or something. Its just dumb. we don't need to just not raise costs, we need to slash them. Our medical sector is bloated and horribly inefficient, because privatized insurance is a horrible thing and this law is just a ptolemization of an already terrible system. Welcome to nominal wage/price rigidity. For the most part, the best way to lower costs is to make it grow slower than inflation+economy. no the best way to fix it is to have socialized medicine like a civilized ountry and kick the fucking private insurance companies ballooning everything to the curb. Also make people eat better and exercise and stuff so they don't get as sick
People have a goddamned God-given right to smoke, watch tv, eat potato chips and kelloggs breakfast sugar, and drink bubbly fructose corn syrup. Who do you think you are?
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On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this.
I know Cruz is a brilliant man who understand basic math. But maybe this explains why he messed this up.
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The internet has been won!
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 25 2013 08:35 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 04:15 sam!zdat wrote:On September 25 2013 03:52 aksfjh wrote:On September 25 2013 03:45 sam!zdat wrote:On September 24 2013 22:01 DoubleReed wrote:
Why do people say it will raise costs right after I link to two CBO studies saying the exact opposite?
Healthcare without pre-existing conditions is idiotic and pointless. Its like healthcare without cancer treatment or something. Its just dumb. we don't need to just not raise costs, we need to slash them. Our medical sector is bloated and horribly inefficient, because privatized insurance is a horrible thing and this law is just a ptolemization of an already terrible system. Welcome to nominal wage/price rigidity. For the most part, the best way to lower costs is to make it grow slower than inflation+economy. no the best way to fix it is to have socialized medicine like a civilized ountry and kick the fucking private insurance companies ballooning everything to the curb. Also make people eat better and exercise and stuff so they don't get as sick People have a goddamned God-given right to smoke, watch tv, eat potato chips and kelloggs breakfast sugar, and drink bubbly fructose corn syrup. Who do you think you are?
potato chips are pretty ok, especially baked
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I prefer tortilla chips, when baked 
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On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny.
The fight he's waging is one for the publicity of opposition. If enough constituents sign on to the House passing piecemeal funding, he's won. Very little time remains to defund the bill. This is essentially the last action a Senator can take before it's back to being up to the House to go with Plan A (Plan B wasn't ever viable, that Reid would require the 60 votes in a different Senate rule he has the opportunity to support).
On September 25 2013 08:06 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. I don't see it like that. I see it as a guy that has no idea wtf he's doing in the Senate. He's burned every bridge since he got there through some naive notion that he could be a Tea Party hero.
He is a Tea Party hero, especially now. In his own words (since I expect many here just rely on third party summaries)
"If Republicans vote with Democrats, then this body will cut off debate on this bill, and we are silencing the voice of the Senate and the voice of the people."
“I rise today in opposition to ObamaCare in an effort to speak for 26 million Texans and 300 million Americans. It is time, quite frankly, to make D.C. listen." - Senator Ted Cruz
What other options do you retain when your Republican leadership doesn't speak forcefully against it? He's got the news attention now, he's putting it out there that some people in the Capitol are in for the fight, and that's an important thing to do when the public's faith in their representatives is so low.
On September 25 2013 08:11 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 22:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On September 24 2013 22:01 DoubleReed wrote:
Why do people say it will raise costs right after I link to two CBO studies saying the exact opposite? Different cost definitions, I think. e.g. the cost of healthcare overall is different from premium costs or costs to the government. You mean cost as a share of GDP? It's going to lower that too. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that Obamacare is going to be a failure (except in red states where the medicaid may be blocked). The only people saying that are groups like the Heritage Foundation. It's the right wing bubble issue all over again. It seems like it's going to be better than we expected on all fronts. This actually makes sense politically. After all, if Obamacare would really be a failure, then Republicans would let it go through and they can be all like "I told you so!" and win elections. Instead, they're doing everything in their power to not let it go through, because what they're really terrified of is that it will be a massive success. I think it's funny that Ted Cruz is being attacked and being labeled a traitor just for recognizing the reality of the situation. Acknowledging reality is a absolute no-no in the republican party.
Spending is going up. If you believed Obama's promise of reducing health care spending $2,500 a year, boy I have a swamp to sell ya. Break down the increase in national health spending, per the medicare actuaries specifically due to the PPACA, and you get an entirely different story. From 2014 to 2022, the increase amounts to $7,450 per family of 4. (source)
This isn't a case of uniform understanding that it will save money. It is far different when viewed from the state of Obama's own initial promise, reduction of $2500 per family.+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: Clarified language
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First of all, why are we comparing -$2,500/year to +$7,450/8years?
Second of all, -$2,500/year is referring to premiums for a typical family of four. +$7,450/8years is talking about net health spending, from your own source:
By 2022, the ACA is projected to reduce the number of uninsured people by 30 million, add approximately 0.1 percentage-point to average annual health spending growth over the full projection period, and increase cumulative health spending by roughly $621 billion.
He then uses a dubious methodology to get from $621 billion to $7,450person/8years
So that's just an obvious example of apples and oranges.
Third of all, it's not as if premiums for everyone will go down in Obamacare. That's not what is supposed to happen. It's a subsidy. The richer and healthier will pay more and the poorer and unhealthier will pay less. And the number of "losers" in this healthcare bill is projected to be smaller and smaller the more we see of it.
I'm sorry but this is quite disingenuous. Is this really how you argue? Why not just look at actual studies like from the CBO of how much it will cost people? I don't even know why you brought up the $2,500 figure, honestly. It really has nothing to do with my point. Obama can be lying, deceitful sack of crap and that doesn't mean Obamacare is going to make premiums rise. That doesn't mean that the projections for Obamacare haven't been more positive as it's been rolled out.
Let's just compare apples with apples. There's no reason to do anything else.
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Even C-SPAN is having fun with Sen. Cruz
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BU-EWEHCYAAOQKm.png)
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On September 25 2013 10:16 Saryph wrote:Even C-SPAN is having fun with Sen. Cruz
lol
There should be some clarification that Cruz IS accomplishing something with this, by preventing the vote to go to the floor before the 30 hour debate session is ended (maximum time with cloture, iirc). Basically, by stalling, he's going to force the government to shut down, without doing anything to Obamacare.
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So now Boehner is considering attaching a year long delay of Obamacare to the CR This is how desperate he and the GOP as a whole are to prevent any potential good news for Obama. If I was Reid I would send the funding bill back to the house sunday night and have Pelosi pull all support and let Boehner be eaten alive.
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On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get.
I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill."
... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here?
Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight.
Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here.
He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny.
It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality.
Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible.
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On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Show nested quote +Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. Show nested quote +He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible.
I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category.
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On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category.
Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds.
It's sad really.
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On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really.
This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them.
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On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them.
Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable.
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On September 25 2013 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 03:02 Gorsameth wrote:
Ah Republicans.
"We will filibuster our own proposal until you break regulations and impose an artificially high limit to changing the bill that is so high you cant change it".
Yep.... that sounds retarded.
The senate needs a 51-vote threshold to change it, maybe Cruz should have done some basic math before whining at the House to pass this. How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult? Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them. Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable.
I agree. It's dumb to ask why when it's obvious he's just min maxing his political cred later on without actually having to do anything against Obamacare. A true politician and patriot.
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On September 25 2013 12:34 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 12:31 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 11:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:37 TOloseGT wrote:On September 25 2013 11:13 xDaunt wrote:On September 25 2013 11:08 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:30 kwizach wrote:On September 25 2013 05:43 sc2superfan101 wrote:On September 25 2013 04:38 Adila wrote:On September 25 2013 04:10 sc2superfan101 wrote:
[quote]
How is that retarded? Other than being something that would make the Democratic Senators lives difficult?
Cruz did do the math, that's why he's calling for a filibuster. Honestly, this idea that we're all too dumb to understand what's going on here is really insulting. And the fact that you all are pretty much openly lying about what's going on, despite being usually pretty respectable posters on this forum, speaks volumes. Then he should just shut up and filibuster it already You know damn well that he can't. That's what I'm talking about with posters on here openly lying. Being disingenuous to this degree is as dishonest as lying. The only one that's being disingenuous is Ted Cruz. He thought he could present himself as the anti-Obamacare flag bearer through rhetoric only, until the House actually passed the bill that he was asking for but actually thought (and hoped) he would not get. I make the statement that saying Ted Cruz is fighting his own bill is disengenious because we all know that he's no longer fighting "his own bill" but fighting Harry Reid's bill (Reid will change the bill, thus making it no longer a Republican bill). You're response to this is, basically, to repeat "lol, he's fighting his own bill." ... You don't think that it's very, very telling that you are willing to be this dishonest about what's going on here? Since then, he's been desperately trying to find a way to simultaneously appear as the guy still fighting the hardest to repeal/defund Obamacare and avoid looking like the fraud that he is in terms of the political reality of the hopelessness of his fight. Uh... what world are you living in? Two days ago he said: "I cannot defund Obamacare myself." He openly admitted the hopelessness of his fight. And when he did, both establishment Republicans and Democrats blasted him for it. So now you're going to turn around and accuse him of hiding the fact that his fight is hopeless? You can't have it both ways here. He's now tried to put to onus back on the House by calling on House republicans to pass piecemeal government funding bills. He's so transparent it's not even funny. It's always been the House's job. Ted Cruz, sadly, does not run the Senate. Republicans, sadly, do not run the Senate. The Republicans do run the House. If anything is to be done, it has to be done in the House. It's a political reality. Stop the lying. It's making your position look terrible. I figured out long ago that it isn't really worth engaging posters when all they are doing is echoing inane talking points from the DNC. Every post from every liberal on this Cruz topic pretty much falls squarely into this category. Lol, this shit is hilarious. Conservatives think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous. Liberals think one thing, people call them out for being disingenuous too. I read /conservatives, /libertarian, /politics everyday, and it's the same circle jerk bullshit. There is no discussion, there is no engagement. I read your posts, other conservative posters on here, and I read their counterarguments, and honestly I believe you all live in two entirely different worlds. It's sad really. This Cruz business is pretty black and white. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to criticize what he's doing. Saying "LOL HE IS FILIBUSTERING HIS OWN BILL!!1!!" isn't one of them. Exactly. There is an argument to be made for the establishment side (though I disagree with it, it is a valid and legit argument). But this nonsense about him "filibustering his own bill" or "why doesn't he just do a real filibuster" is unbelievable. I agree. It's dumb to ask why when it's obvious he's just min maxing his political cred later on without actually having to do anything against Obamacare. A true politician and patriot.
What exactly do you expect him to do? He, sadly, is not a dictator who can force the Senate to vote against Obamacare. What he's doing is two things:
1. Taking a stand against Obamacare (thus increasing his political value)
2. Shaming Republicans who are going to cave on Obamacare (thus lowering their political power).
Neither of those are wrong or disingenuous on his part. He's done all he can, and is doing the only thing left to him. 9 hours in and he's still going. I applaud his consistency here.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://b-i.forbesimg.com/theapothecary/files/2013/09/CostperFamily.png)
