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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4610

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 01 2016 21:35 GMT
#92181
On August 02 2016 06:31 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:23 LegalLord wrote:
On August 02 2016 05:55 Mohdoo wrote:
This Khan thing seems to be going significantly worse for Trump than I expected. The VFW is particularly telling.

Honestly, a simply brilliant play by the democrats baiting him into this. Having a Muslim parent of a dead soldier blast Trump as hard as possible was the perfect bait. If you say something mean enough to Trump with a large enough audience, he will respond no matter what. Having the person doing that be a Muslim made sure it would be slightly offensive. Having that person be a veteran made it so that the comments actually matter, breaking Trump's invincibility. He can say a lot, but not about a dead veteran.

He's getting called out for it but I'm not seeing anything bad happening. As far as I can tell it's bad for him in the same way that "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" is bad for him.

But the troops!

Only if you choose to see it that way. If people support the viewpoint of the soldier GGTemplar linked a few pages back, then Trump basically defended the troops against someone who was trying to leverage his son's death for political gain.

So far this issue, as most, is interpreted along party lines so I think this too will pass.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15677 Posts
August 01 2016 21:35 GMT
#92182
On August 02 2016 06:23 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 05:55 Mohdoo wrote:
This Khan thing seems to be going significantly worse for Trump than I expected. The VFW is particularly telling.

Honestly, a simply brilliant play by the democrats baiting him into this. Having a Muslim parent of a dead soldier blast Trump as hard as possible was the perfect bait. If you say something mean enough to Trump with a large enough audience, he will respond no matter what. Having the person doing that be a Muslim made sure it would be slightly offensive. Having that person be a veteran made it so that the comments actually matter, breaking Trump's invincibility. He can say a lot, but not about a dead veteran.

He's getting called out for it but I'm not seeing anything bad happening. As far as I can tell it's bad for him in the same way that "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" is bad for him.


I disagree. This whole thing has been about 2 news cycles so far and it is still going. VFW and McCain are big. Veterans are just so incredibly beloved in our country that I see this sticking a bit.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 01 2016 21:37 GMT
#92183
On August 02 2016 06:27 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:23 LegalLord wrote:
On August 02 2016 05:55 Mohdoo wrote:
This Khan thing seems to be going significantly worse for Trump than I expected. The VFW is particularly telling.

Honestly, a simply brilliant play by the democrats baiting him into this. Having a Muslim parent of a dead soldier blast Trump as hard as possible was the perfect bait. If you say something mean enough to Trump with a large enough audience, he will respond no matter what. Having the person doing that be a Muslim made sure it would be slightly offensive. Having that person be a veteran made it so that the comments actually matter, breaking Trump's invincibility. He can say a lot, but not about a dead veteran.

He's getting called out for it but I'm not seeing anything bad happening. As far as I can tell it's bad for him in the same way that "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" is bad for him.


Out of curiosity, do you think it SHOULD be bad for a presidential candidate to say stuff like this?

Yes, but I'm also trying to explain why the line of reasoning, "THIS will finally sink Trump's campaign" is wrong. The Onion put it well:
SALISBURY, MD—Repeating identical comments he had made in June, July, August, September, and twice in November, increasingly nervous local man Aaron Howe responded to Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. Monday by once again stating this would be the end of the Republican frontrunner’s campaign, sources confirmed. “Well, that’s it—you just can’t say those kinds of things and expect to be taken seriously any longer,” said an anxious Howe, his voice quavering slightly as he spoke aloud the very same words he had previously uttered in reaction to remarks about Mexicans, women, the disabled, former POW John McCain, and a number of other targeted parties. “That’s the final nail in the coffin right there. There’s no way he’s coming back from this one.” At press time, a visibly tense Howe was steadily amassing the angst and exasperation that would be unleashed in his seventh expletive-filled exclamation of the year when he catches sight of the newest set of GOP poll numbers.

Source
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15677 Posts
August 01 2016 21:40 GMT
#92184
On August 02 2016 06:37 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:27 On_Slaught wrote:
On August 02 2016 06:23 LegalLord wrote:
On August 02 2016 05:55 Mohdoo wrote:
This Khan thing seems to be going significantly worse for Trump than I expected. The VFW is particularly telling.

Honestly, a simply brilliant play by the democrats baiting him into this. Having a Muslim parent of a dead soldier blast Trump as hard as possible was the perfect bait. If you say something mean enough to Trump with a large enough audience, he will respond no matter what. Having the person doing that be a Muslim made sure it would be slightly offensive. Having that person be a veteran made it so that the comments actually matter, breaking Trump's invincibility. He can say a lot, but not about a dead veteran.

He's getting called out for it but I'm not seeing anything bad happening. As far as I can tell it's bad for him in the same way that "build a wall and make Mexico pay for it" is bad for him.


Out of curiosity, do you think it SHOULD be bad for a presidential candidate to say stuff like this?

Yes, but I'm also trying to explain why the line of reasoning, "THIS will finally sink Trump's campaign" is wrong. The Onion put it well:
Show nested quote +
SALISBURY, MD—Repeating identical comments he had made in June, July, August, September, and twice in November, increasingly nervous local man Aaron Howe responded to Donald Trump’s call to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. Monday by once again stating this would be the end of the Republican frontrunner’s campaign, sources confirmed. “Well, that’s it—you just can’t say those kinds of things and expect to be taken seriously any longer,” said an anxious Howe, his voice quavering slightly as he spoke aloud the very same words he had previously uttered in reaction to remarks about Mexicans, women, the disabled, former POW John McCain, and a number of other targeted parties. “That’s the final nail in the coffin right there. There’s no way he’s coming back from this one.” At press time, a visibly tense Howe was steadily amassing the angst and exasperation that would be unleashed in his seventh expletive-filled exclamation of the year when he catches sight of the newest set of GOP poll numbers.

Source


I don't think anything will sink his campaign. But this was actual blood being spilled, not the usual invincibility.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 01 2016 21:44 GMT
#92185
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 01 2016 21:45 GMT
#92186
Again, given the way his campaign has gone, I can't really expect it will be the same effect. John Rambo McCain opposing him is not a new story and is not even a particularly bad thing. He might have some trouble with people who think his attacks were distasteful but if that were a particularly bad thing then it would have caught up to him already.

All of the Trump supporters in this thread have indicated at least one attack of his that they found to be in poor taste. But sometimes it just doesn't really matter.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 01 2016 21:49 GMT
#92187
On August 02 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:

All of the Trump supporters in this thread have indicated at least one attack of his that they found to be in poor taste.


Questionable
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 01 2016 21:51 GMT
#92188
I concur that this isn't really going to change the minds of most people. Though it may make some difference election-wise, mostly they affect people who haven't been following the election and hadn't heard all the stuff Trump's said yet.
People who're following have already heard stuff Trump says, so they either accept it by now, or were already against him.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13910 Posts
August 01 2016 21:51 GMT
#92189
On August 02 2016 06:49 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:

All of the Trump supporters in this thread have indicated at least one attack of his that they found to be in poor taste.


Questionable

really? you think so low of the posters in this thread that you don't think they found at least one of his comments hes made was in poor taste?
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 21:54:45
August 01 2016 21:53 GMT
#92190
DODGE CITY, Kansas — It was a scene out of 1950s Americana: Tim Huelskamp waved to constituents at a parade in this old cowboy town, smiling as his sons handed out bubble gum and campaign fliers urging a vote on Tuesday for the Republican congressman — a “Proven Principled Conservative.”

But the niceties on display last weekend belied a ferocious intra-Republican feud unfolding here in Kansas’ sprawling 1st Congressional District. Residents of the onetime stomping grounds of Wyatt Earp have been bombarded with competing TV ads and mailers, blasting Huelskamp as an ineffective troublemaker who’s lost his sway on critical agricultural issues. They’re urging voters to replace the Freedom Caucus member with Roger Marshall, an obstetrician running for office for the first time.

What’s resulted in “the Big First,” as locals in the rural 63-county district call it, is an unlikely, multimillion dollar proxy fight this summer between some of the most powerful interests in the Republican Party. Outside conservative groups, including the Club for Growth and Koch brothers-backed Americans for Prosperity, have swooped in to try and save Huelskamp in Tuesday’s primary, while the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Ricketts family’s “Ending Spending” group are spending big to send the three-term congressman back to Kansas.

The showdown has flipped the script on GOP warring in recent election cycles. Often it’s been an establishment-friendly incumbent scrambling to fend off a primary election challenger from the right. This time, it’s one of the most uncompromising conservatives in the House — a man who instigated John Boehner’s ouster as speaker and has bucked GOP leaders time and again on major votes — ironically being attacked as a D.C. insider and fighting for his political life.

Huelskamp’s critics back in Kansas say his “rigid” conservative ideology and unwillingness to work with his own party have deemed him ineffective. Three years ago, he was kicked off the House Agriculture Committee for spurning party leadership, in what is now, by far, his biggest vulnerability in the race. Marshall, conversely, is pitching himself as a pragmatic Republican who would give farmers a voice in Washington.

“I’m not voting for Washing-Tim,” quipped one man at a barbecue cook-off, directly quoting an ad paid for by the Ricketts-backed group. “Huelskamp I always felt was for the farmer, but I’m not sure he is anymore,” said another voter said as Marshall passed by in the parade.

It’s unclear how close the race is due to limited polling, but one early July survey had Marshall up 7 points. (Marshall says his internals have them tied.) But there’s no question both sides see it as winnable: Almost $3 million in outside money has flooded the district; the spending is tilted, by a margin of several hundred thousand dollars, in favor of efforts to defeat Huelskamp.

“You have a million and a half against me — they’re trying to buy this election,” Huelskamp told POLITICO. “I think it’s a testament that I’m making a difference in Washington, otherwise all these insiders wouldn’t be so upset.”

Indeed, many GOP insiders in Washington are privately hoping he loses.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
August 01 2016 21:54 GMT
#92191
On August 02 2016 06:51 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:49 Doodsmack wrote:
On August 02 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:

All of the Trump supporters in this thread have indicated at least one attack of his that they found to be in poor taste.


Questionable

really? you think so low of the posters in this thread that you don't think they found at least one of his comments hes made was in poor taste?

To be fair, there is at least one poster from each team that doesn't give an inch
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 21:56:46
August 01 2016 21:55 GMT
#92192
On August 02 2016 06:51 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 02 2016 06:49 Doodsmack wrote:
On August 02 2016 06:45 LegalLord wrote:

All of the Trump supporters in this thread have indicated at least one attack of his that they found to be in poor taste.


Questionable

really? you think so low of the posters in this thread that you don't think they found at least one of his comments hes made was in poor taste?


It is very, very rare as far as I can tell. They mostly just say "this won't affect anything". And they say it's just the media taking something out of context.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
August 01 2016 21:58 GMT
#92193
the smart thing about picking a muslim veterans parents was that either way trump was going to look bad. If he didnt say anything the islamophobic part of his followers (probably the majorty of them) would have been upset, but now the the big veteran loving part of the american electorat is upset instead. Smart move by the democrats.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
August 01 2016 21:58 GMT
#92194
The Florida Department of Health has now identified 14 locally transmitted cases of Zika virus infection in the Wynwood neighborhood of Miami. The Centers for Disease Control has issued an advisory urging pregnant women and women who plan to become pregnant soon to avoid traveling to this part of South Florida. The CDC is also urging that pregnant women and their partners who live in or have traveled to this area use condoms to prevent the spread of the virus. In addition, the agency is suggests that all pregnant women in the United States should be assessed for possible Zika virus exposure during each prenatal care visit.

According to STAT, CDC Director Tom Frieden said that this is the first time the CDC had issued a health-related travel advisory for the mainland United States. STAT further reported that Frieden also observed that ...

...despite aggressive efforts by Florida to lower populations of Aedes aegypti mosquitoes — the main species that spreads Zika — the state has seen no reduction in the numbers caught in the traps it sets. That suggests the efforts aren't working.

Frieden offered several explanations, including the possibility that the mosquitoes may have developed resistance to the chemicals being used to control them. Testing to see if that is the case will take at least a week and perhaps three or more.

If only there were a technology that could reduce the numbers of these deadly mosquitoes. Wait a minute - there is!

"Friendly" GMO mosquitoes could spread a gene that is lethal to the larva of the disease-carrying mosquitoes. In Brazil, the release of these genetically-modified mosquitoes reduced the transmission of dengue fever by more than 90 percent. Last week, the Cayman Islands government approved the release of the GMO mosquitoes to control Zika virus there. Unfortunately, this technology is not approved for use in the United States because FDA regulators are kowtowing to the fearmongering of anti-biotech activists.


Source
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 01 2016 22:01 GMT
#92195
Pretty worried about the Rio Olympics. It has the potential to be the spark of a global Zika epidemic and the local government has proven to be quite incapable of successfully addressing the issue.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21655 Posts
August 01 2016 22:03 GMT
#92196
On August 02 2016 06:58 Elroi wrote:
the smart thing about picking a muslim veterans parents was that either way trump was going to look bad. If he didnt say anything the islamophobic part of his followers (probably the majorty of them) would have been upset, but now the the big veteran loving part of the american electorat is upset instead. Smart move by the democrats.

I don't think his followers would have even noticed if he didn't say anything. And they certainly would not have run of to another candidate, or not voted, because of him ignoring it.

He thought he saw an opportunity to make a quick easy remark for his islamophobic followers and forget he was insulting a big proud democratic in veterans and military families.
Just another classic case of his mouth talking faster then his brain can think.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 22:18:37
August 01 2016 22:18 GMT
#92197
I think any time a news story lasts two days and clearly illustrates Trump's lack of foresight, people will falsely think it sounds a death knell for his campaign. These stories are unlikely to have a meaningful effect alone, but at least in a rhetoric sense it builds a really nice line of attack for Clinton (though I doubt she'd even bother with it).

I mean, this one is such a crystal clear illustration that he needed to listen to whoever told him if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all or, failing that, at least ask some of his "best people" for help before embarking on a stupid course of action.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 01 2016 22:21 GMT
#92198
I'm not holding out for a spectacular collapse or sudden turn against Trump. More like him slowly chipping away at his support base and losing several independents/undecideds for every one he gains.

If Trump manages to get in front of the Supreme Court, I'd think they would decide against him. Maybe not a clean 8-0, but there's no way that he wins.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-01 22:23:10
August 01 2016 22:22 GMT
#92199
7-1, Thomas Dissenting.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 01 2016 22:24 GMT
#92200
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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