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On July 27 2016 05:06 zeo wrote: edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
Why is it embarrassing? He explained very eloquently why he doesn't want a Trump presidency. Embarrasing would be to put his actual thoughts aside in order to pander to his loudest fans.
edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
I sense that he was promised something significant conditional upon Hillary winning the election.
As GH put it, Bernie will do what he must, and so should his supporters.
Bernie doesn't want Trump to win, simple as that. He stands for his platform and while Hillary is not the candidate he wants he knows that Trump will destroy what Bernie seeks to accomplish.
Possible, and we don't know for sure, but I sense it's more than that. It's a significant reversal from his earlier position that Hillary will have to play her own part in winning over his supporters.
On July 27 2016 05:06 zeo wrote: edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
Why is it embarrassing? He explained very eloquently why he doesn't want a Trump presidency. Embarrasing would be to put his actual thoughts aside in order to pander to his loudest fans.
Because when you break down the complexity of issues into "us vs them", this kinda thinking takes place. It's sad because it's downright false. It's not a weirdly inaccurate way to go through life. You hear a lot of people talk about how they won't let people tell them only 2 candidates have a chance at winning. It's like dude, that's straight up true and a big reason you wanted Bernie to win, to correct that system. If you were against a system, and it hasn't been solved yet, it's probably still the system.
edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
I sense that he was promised something significant conditional upon Hillary winning the election.
As GH put it, Bernie will do what he must, and so should his supporters.
Bernie doesn't want Trump to win, simple as that. He stands for his platform and while Hillary is not the candidate he wants he knows that Trump will destroy what Bernie seeks to accomplish.
Possible, and we don't know for sure, but I sense it's more than that. It's a significant reversal from his earlier position that Hillary will have to play her own part in winning over his supporters.
To be honest, it is partly his fault for allowing his supporters to demonize her for so long and not giving them realistic expectations. And demonizing her himself. Obama v Clinton was super nasty up until the convention, but everyone operated under the understanding that whoever won was the only way forward.
edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
I sense that he was promised something significant conditional upon Hillary winning the election.
As GH put it, Bernie will do what he must, and so should his supporters.
Bernie doesn't want Trump to win, simple as that. He stands for his platform and while Hillary is not the candidate he wants he knows that Trump will destroy what Bernie seeks to accomplish.
Possible, and we don't know for sure, but I sense it's more than that. It's a significant reversal from his earlier position that Hillary will have to play her own part in winning over his supporters.
To be honest, it is partly his fault for allowing his supporters to demonize her for so long and not giving them realistic expectations. And demonizing her himself. Obama v Clinton was super nasty up until the convention, but everyone operated under the understanding that whoever won was the only way forward.
And some of them are just babies.
Didn't Obama draw on a fair few new idealistic voters? I think the only reason we didn't see similar things happening in 2008 was because Obama won instead of Hillary.
If Bernie had won this time I'm pretty sure the Hillary crowd would have fallen in line without all this mess. It is the nature of the losing voters, not the campaign itself.
edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
I sense that he was promised something significant conditional upon Hillary winning the election.
As GH put it, Bernie will do what he must, and so should his supporters.
Bernie doesn't want Trump to win, simple as that. He stands for his platform and while Hillary is not the candidate he wants he knows that Trump will destroy what Bernie seeks to accomplish.
Possible, and we don't know for sure, but I sense it's more than that. It's a significant reversal from his earlier position that Hillary will have to play her own part in winning over his supporters.
To be honest, it is partly his fault for allowing his supporters to demonize her for so long and not giving them realistic expectations. And demonizing her himself. Obama v Clinton was super nasty up until the convention, but everyone operated under the understanding that whoever won was the only way forward.
And some of them are just babies.
Didn't Obama draw on a fair few new idealistic voters? I think the only reason we didn't see similar things happening in 2008 was because Obama won instead of Hillary.
If Bernie had won this time I'm pretty sure the Hillary crowd would have fallen in line without all this mess. It is the nature of the losing voters, not the campaign itself.
I think we would have seen a similar sort of fall out. But the key with that one is that neither side was trying to display the other as corrupt or rigging the system, so they would have come together. Obama never made that argument, even though the DNC favored Clinton by a lot. People forget that it was Bill who gave a powerful speech during the convention telling the DNC that he and the party were putting their faith in Obama.
But Bernie isn’t a democrat. He sat this stuff out every election and it shows. He wasn’t prepared to have to rally his supporters behind someone else. And they were not prepared to have to do it to accomplish what he wants.
Politics always swings between left and right. If you are a purist Bernie supporter you are better off hoping Trump wins in 2016 so that a strong enough progressive movement can come back with a vengeance in 2020 or 2024. If Hillary wins in 2016, progressive energy will be wasted defending a corporate Democrat for 4 years. When Hillary passes the TPP Democrats, especially the Bernie Democrats, will be left with a bag of shit they didn't want in the first place.
It's better to spend 4 years attacking Trump rather than 4 years defending Hillary.
The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
edit: tbh he should have just left quietly. Endorsing her is getting embarrassing.
I sense that he was promised something significant conditional upon Hillary winning the election.
As GH put it, Bernie will do what he must, and so should his supporters.
Bernie doesn't want Trump to win, simple as that. He stands for his platform and while Hillary is not the candidate he wants he knows that Trump will destroy what Bernie seeks to accomplish.
Possible, and we don't know for sure, but I sense it's more than that. It's a significant reversal from his earlier position that Hillary will have to play her own part in winning over his supporters.
To be honest, it is partly his fault for allowing his supporters to demonize her for so long and not giving them realistic expectations. And demonizing her himself. Obama v Clinton was super nasty up until the convention, but everyone operated under the understanding that whoever won was the only way forward.
And some of them are just babies.
Didn't Obama draw on a fair few new idealistic voters? I think the only reason we didn't see similar things happening in 2008 was because Obama won instead of Hillary.
If Bernie had won this time I'm pretty sure the Hillary crowd would have fallen in line without all this mess. It is the nature of the losing voters, not the campaign itself.
I think we would have seen a similar sort of fall out. But the key with that one is that neither side was trying to display the other as corrupt or rigging the system, so they would have come together. Obama never made that argument, even though the DNC favored Clinton by a lot. People forget that it was Bill who gave a powerful speech during the convention telling the DNC that he and the party were putting their faith in Obama.
But Bernie isn’t a democrat. He sat this stuff out every election and it shows. He wasn’t prepared to have to rally his supporters behind someone else. And they were not prepared to have to do it to accomplish what he wants.
He directly said many times he has no concern about hurting Clinton's electability. It wasn't accidental. He was willing to burn the house down in hopes of being president.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
As Mohdoo said, Bernie did a lot to hurt her. A lot was done by her too, but the protracted and nasty efforts for him to win didn’t help her favorability within democrats.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
Donald Trump makes it very easy to rally.
That theory hasn't worked out so well thus far.
People can be livid about Sanders and still vote for Clinton. As an Oregonian, this is basically the case everywhere, especially in Portland. I don't know how to fully convey just how bad people think trump is. People see him as Hitler. People are mad, pissed even that they have to vote Clinton. They are quick to point out Clinton is awful and the worst but that electing trump is just beyond reasonable. Impossible even for them.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
Donald Trump makes it very easy to rally.
That theory hasn't worked out so well thus far.
Well they have a bunch of booing delegates and that is about it. They still haven’t had a Ted Cruz moment where he flat out tells people to maybe vote for Clinton if you don’t like Trump.
On July 27 2016 05:45 xDaunt wrote: The underlying problem with Democrat/Progressive unity is Hillary herself. Looking at the situation in the light most favorable to her, she lacks the charisma to unify the party like Obama did after that nasty primary. Looking at the situation a little more realistically, she clearly is unlikable to a large chunk of the Democrat base, which makes it very difficult to rally behind her.
Donald Trump makes it very easy to rally.
That theory hasn't worked out so well thus far.
People can be livid about Sanders and still vote for Clinton. As an Oregonian, this is basically the case everywhere, especially in Portland. I don't know how to fully convey just how bad people think trump is. People see him as Hitler. People are mad, pissed even that they have to vote Clinton. They are quick to point out Clinton is awful and the worst but that electing trump is just beyond reasonable. Impossible even for them.
I have no doubt that there is a large segment of Bernie voters and other progressives/hyper-liberals that is going to vote for Hillary. They don't all have to stay home for Trump to win. My point is that Hillary's own personal negative qualities are a significant drag on her candidacy, which mutual dislike for Trump may not be able to overcome. This problem for Hillary is thoroughly reflected in the current state of the polls -- both in the current standings and in the polls' internals concerning Hillary.